Supercharger cost? Free or not - Model 3

[Garlan Garner]

Hmmm....I was extrapolating out a road trip. over a full year, admittedly a bad metric, since I was using Tesla's SC rates.

we'll use the annual average kWh rate for me which is .13/kWh (fluctuates seasonally)

12,000 miles. 75kWh battery, 310 miles per "fill-up". $9.75 per fill-up, around $377.42/yr for the Model 3. $.0314/mile

vs.

My 2015 A3, which gets...we'll call it a combined 32mpg . 14.5gal tank, at $2.95/gal for 93 octane. $42.78 per fill-up, a fill-up gets me 464 miles, I'd need ~25.86 fill-ups, so $1106.38/yr and $.0921/mile


A savings of..... $.0608/mile.


Guess I was still pretty close earlier.

Combo of my electricity being high-ish, and my ICE not being as inefficient as some others may be.


Still...won't complain.

I see what you are saying.

My napkin math says that my ICE gets 320 miles per tank which costs about $48 to fill up right now - today.
My model 3 will cost $.03/kWh for 320 miles which comes to $9.00 to fill up.

I will be at approx. $0.12 per mile in savings....so I suppose its not as drastic as I thought.



With solar....all of my Model 3 charging will be free. I have to add 5 more panels onto my array to get my yearly charge rate + home usage - in order to be free - OR - I could just pay the $313 dollars per year difference.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Welcome to the SF Bay Area--on a TOU plan I pay up to $0.38/kW during peak, and $0.10/kw at the lowest of 4 times (off peak--11:00 pm to 6:00 am). I of course have PV solar to maximize return during the peak, but note that PG&E has shifted the peak later in the day and it now does not perfectly match up with solar production. So my best deal is to charge overnight, and for $1.00 I get 30 miles of range (240V/40A NEMA 14-50). Better than gasoline, but you all in other parts of the US have a much better deal (....so stop complaining....

Holy Smokes!!!!

$0.38/kWh? That is just robbery.

Might I suggest at least 5 solar panels. You can install them yourself. The higher the price of electricity....the greater value of each panel. You can always check out my yearly progress below. "Just click on SolarEdge".

 

[Garlan Garner]

Thats less than the average California PG&E rate. My office in the same area averages between $.23 and .24/kwh

WOW!!!

Shame on California.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I see what you are saying.

My napkin math says that my ICE gets 320 miles per tank which costs about $48 to fill up right now - today.
My model 3 will cost $.03/kWh for 320 miles which comes to $9.00 to fill up.

I will be at approx. $0.12 per mile in savings....so I suppose its not as drastic as I thought.



With solar....all of my Model 3 charging will be free. I have to add 5 more panels onto my array to get my yearly charge rate + home usage - in order to be free - OR - I could just pay the $313 dollars per year difference.

We just bought this house 6 months ago. It was a complete studs-out flip, new electrical, roof, all of that.

We're still trying to see if we can justify putting up a solar array on a brand new roof.....but for now, those are my numbers.

 

[Eclectic]

Let's say Model 3 Long Range battery is 75 kWh with a range of 310 miles.

So the cost to fill up is:

75 kWh x 0.20 = $15.00

With that same $15.00 I can purchase gasoline with an average price of $3.03 per gallon in CA per gasbuddy.com

$15.00 / 3.03 = 4.95 Gallons


And Toyota Prius Prime has 54 MPG

So, 4.95 gallons x 54MPG = 267.3 miles.

Thus, you can go 43 miles further with the same money in Model 3.

Not bad at all!

Yeah, and the time to get the extra 43 miles will be about an hour. And that assumes the unlikely, which is that you really get 310 miles of range in actual use. No thanks.

 

[Tam]

...No thanks...

That's a valid point that charging takes longer than gasoline filling. There is no argument from me on this point.

However, when comparing ranges, we need some commonly agreed guideline which is EPA numbers. Both Model 3 and Prius Prime use certified EPA numbers.

It is an open secrete that many drivers can't achieve EPA numbers whether it's 310 for Model 3 or 54 MPG for Prius Prime.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Yeah, and the time to get the extra 43 miles will be about an hour. And that assumes the unlikely, which is that you really get 310 miles of range in actual use. No thanks.

310 will be easy in Chicago.

Every street is going downhill. lol <-----Unfortunately that statement is true on so many levels.

 

[Tam]

...And that assumes the unlikely, which is that you really get 310 miles of range in actual use.....

Why badmouthing about EV range when Consumer Reports found others also fall short of EPA numbers:

The Miles per Gallon Gap - Consumer Reports Magazine

 

[sperkin]

That's a valid point that charging takes longer than gasoline filling. There is no argument from me on this point.

However, when comparing ranges, we need some commonly agreed guideline which is EPA numbers. Both Model 3 and Prius Prime use certified EPA numbers.

It is an open secrete that many drivers can't achieve EPA numbers whether it's 310 for Model 3 or 54 MPG for Prius Prime.

I have to drive it like I stole it to meet the EPA. Too bad in LA traffic, it's hard to get to freeway speed. My record is 124mpg but I can't find that picture.

 

[DR61]

WOW!!!

Shame on California.

It is an individual utility rate, NOT a California rate. We have many utilities, some of them publicly owned.

 

[Lloyd]

It is an individual utility rate, NOT a California rate. We have many utilities, some of them publicly owned.

Each of the utilities rates are approved by the State PUC. The state IS in bed with the utilities. A rate increase request has never been denied in California, but you are correct that they are individual companies. PGE is a publically traded company. Bottom line is that they have a monopoly as you can’t purchase your energy from anyone else, and they for the most part write the rules!

 

[Eclectic]

Why badmouthing about EV range when Consumer Reports found others also fall short of EPA numbers:

The Miles per Gallon Gap - Consumer Reports Magazine

No bad mouthing, just stating a fact.

 

[bro1999]

That's a valid point that charging takes longer than gasoline filling. There is no argument from me on this point.

However, when comparing ranges, we need some commonly agreed guideline which is EPA numbers. Both Model 3 and Prius Prime use certified EPA numbers.

It is an open secrete that many drivers can't achieve EPA numbers whether it's 310 for Model 3 or 54 MPG for Prius Prime.

Consumer Reports found the Bolt handily exceed its EPA numbers....a rare result for their testing.
Chevrolet Bolt Sets Consumer Reports' Electric-Vehicle Range Record

 

[Tam]

By the way, anyone remembers Elon Musk said:

"Model 3, from the beginning we said free charging is not included in the Model 3 – free unlimited charging is not included, so, free long distance is, but not free local. "

 

[SageBrush]

No bad mouthing, just stating a fact.

You are stating half a fact.

It is likely that a person who cannot drive 310 miles on a LR full charge also cannot get 54 mpg in a Prime.

 

[FlatSix911]

Supercharging will not be free or unlimited for the Model 3.
Remember that the total cost of SC is not just the price/kWh, but the significant investment needed to build each facility.

It's nice to be proven right regarding the fact that supercharging will not be free for the Model 3.
Tesla Model 3 doesn’t come with free Supercharger credits like Model S and Model X

For all of the faithful who believed in rainbows, unicorns and free supercharging for life ... the model was just not sustainable.
I am glad that Tesla made the decision to go with a fee based usage model so that we have a scalable option for long distance travel.

 

[SageBrush]

For all of the faithful who believed in rainbows, unicorns and free supercharging for life ... the model was just not sustainable.
I am glad that Tesla made the decision to go with a fee based usage model so that we have a scalable option for long distance travel.

I agree, but frankly I want a SC fee to motivate people to charge at home or their destination. Not having to wait for a spot at a SC is worth a lot more money to me than the surcharge.

 

[DR61]

Each of the utilities rates are approved by the State PUC. The state IS in bed with the utilities. A rate increase request has never been denied in California, but you are correct that they are individual companies. PGE is a publically traded company. Bottom line is that they have a monopoly as you can’t purchase your energy from anyone else, and they for the most part write the rules!

I don't think that is true for publicly owned utilities. I'm relatively sure our utility rates are approved only by our city council: the PUC has no input. There are other state laws that govern public utilities however.

 

[FlatSix911]

I agree, but frankly I want a SC charge to motivate people to charge at home or their destination.
Not having to wait for a spot at a SC is worth a lot more money to me than the surcharge.

I agree and think the mindset is to promote the charge at home model with a full charge available at the start of every day

Of course, the free Supercharging model was never sustainable in the first place, but it’s clearer than ever now with Model 3, which is expected to hit the streets in higher volume than Model S and Model X.

The idea behind changing the business model of the Supercharger network and offering a few free annual credits per car was to charge/discourage heavy users while still showcasing the fact that Tesla’s vehicles are capable of long-distance travel (even for “free”) – something that is rarely the case with electric vehicles at the moment.

Tesla relied on the fact that most owners would use the network only a few times a year while most of their charging is done at home. But now Tesla has also introduced “urban Superchargers”, which are expected to also be used for local charging by city dwellers. The model had to evolve. Interestingly, those new Superchargers are limited to the same slower charge rate (90 kW) as Model 3...

 

[Lloyd]

I don't think that is true for publicly owned utilities. I'm relatively sure our utility rates are approved only by our city council: the PUC has no input. There are other state laws that govern public utilities however.

Here is a map showing control of the utilities.

Also at this address for better viewing

Energy Maps of California - California Energy Commission