As I'm sure you've seen on Plugshare, there are many non-KSI CHAdeMO chargers along @wayner's journey.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Supercharger - Etobicoke ON
- Thread starter MarcoRP
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Canada Supercharging
Struja
“Frost”
Isn't that a double edged sword? Maybe those who spend 6 figures on a car, expect the company can throw in a $700 adapter (cost to Tesla less and $100 is my guess).
wallstguy
Member
Don't mean to be rude, but $700 can mean a lot, even to someone who owns a Tesla. Not everyone with a Tesla can normally afford a 6 figure car.
I for example am one of them, and was only able to make the purchase based on the substantial gas savings based on my driving (i.e. ~40k km in just 8 months of ownership including miles put on loaners) and the 8 year term on the car loan.
Doesn't mean I have money falling from the tree and want to spend another $700.
If you have "no patience" for people who can buy a Tesla but can't afford an adapter, than I also don't have any patience for the rich arrogant.....
It's the complaining over lack of Superchargers I don't have patience for, when alternatives exist. And I don't qualify as rich, but thanks I guess?
Including this time there is maybe one other time that I could have benefited from a chademo adapter in the 37 months that I have owned my Tesla and there will be even less need for it in the future once we have SCs all around Southern Ontario. In this one instance I would have saved 20 minutes of driving but those savings would hve been given up in the longer time that I would have taken to charge. So $700 would not have been well spent - I would rather give the money to charity,.
sakimano
Active Member
sympathy for your plight, with a name like WALLSTREETGUY, may not be strong lol
would love to see your math where the tesla makes financial sense for you. Are you comparing it to $80,000 cars? If so I agree, the Tesla math is starting to approach making sense. But there are a lot of other more affordable ways to buy a car that is fuel efficient and reliable...like a $30,000 used Lexus or something along those lines.
Arguing that that last $700 isn't there because you can't afford it, yet you bought a Tesla (2 of them in fact having already traded one in based on your signature) instead of buying a cheaper vehicle isn't a very good argument. Especially when you were gung ho to spend $5,000 on a paint protection kit. Group Buy: Full Body + Interior Paint Protection Wrap Group Buy (Xpel) - $4800 (X), $4,500 (S)
No offense.
Last edited:
sakimano
Active Member
wallstguy
Member
First off, not asking for sympathy, just pointing out people who own Tesla's don't necessarily have money growing on trees.
Well seeing as you quoted the group buy thread, that alone should point out how every "penny" saved helps. To the "regular" tesla owners you probably walk into the shop pay the quoted price? $6k or so. For me, I wanted this and need to budget for it accordingly, and the extra $1k in savings from arranging a "group buy" made sense.
As for the Math, I compared it to a Lexus RX 350 (my previous car).
I had $600 a month car payments on that. I have $1200 a month car payments on my Tesla. (Although its 4 yr vs 8 yr)
I factored in gas savings. $1.30 average price of gas for premium (at the time of purchase, a lot more today). 3,000km of driving per month (Actually doing 4000-5000km per month). I was getting around 8km/L. So 375L * 1.3 = So around $480 a month in gas savings (actuals are significantly higher). It costs about $600 in maintenance a year (~$130 oil change, $400 or so annual service + tax), and thats assuming only twice a year, but based on driving would be even more. Divide that by 12, you're at another $50 a month.
Never need to change brakes on the car, on my Lexus I changed them every 2 years at about $1300 + tax for brakes and rotors. So about 1500/24 = ~$ 62
We're now down to ~$600 Gas + Maintenance savings per month. $1200 - $600 = $600, i.e. the same I was paying for my Lexus.
Only difference is, the Lexus payments end in 4 years, Tesla ends in 8.
"Arguing that that last $700 isn't there because you can't afford it" - I'm not saying I can't "afford" the $700. But on a cost benefit analysis, I bought the car on the premise of Tesla's supercharger network and its expansion, and the lack of any further expense.
It's a need vs want, yeah I don't need it, but I want it so I bought it, that doesn't mean I have money to blow on "extras" in fact its the opposite, and have to sacrifice the extras in order to afford this.
As for having 2 of them, the first was a buy-back by Tesla.
sakimano
Active Member
I think this is a case of false economy. While your lexus payments were $600/month, and the tesla payments are $1200, you're also paying 2x as much per month for 2x as long for the tesla...in other words you're paying 4x for the tesla what you'd pay for the lexus. After 4 years you'd own the Lexus and be debt free.
Your 'costs' when you own a car are, in broad strokes:
1. depreciation - this is the biggest one. Quoting your 'payments' doesn't really tell the true story. Focus on what the car will depreciate during your period of ownership as your purchase price less your sale price is your true 'cost'. Teslas are very efficient in this regard, but that's compared to other $120,000 cars , not compared to $60,000 cars. Against $60,000 cars, Teslas are very expensive. Over 8 years a $120,000 tesla will probably depreciate about 65% or $78,000 while a $60,000 petrol lexus will depreciate about 75% or $45,000. So you're in the hole $33,000 here.
2. fuel - if you drive 40,000 kms a year for 8 years, a typical 10l/100km vehicle will cost you $40,000. The tesla will probably cost you about $4,000 for that same period unless you supercharge exclusively. So you've 'saved' $36,000 here
3. maintenance - this is tough...we'll pretend they're equal. No teslas really have gone this far...maybe you'd neeed a whole new battery? or engine on the other car?
4. carrying cost if you initiate a loan to pay for it. This is another instance of false economy because you see a lower payment. The carrying charges of 8 years of compounding against you are huge, even at 2.5 or 3.5%. On a $120,000 car, this can add up to $15,000-18,000. Consider it to be 1/4 of that for the $60,000 car. This costs you about $15,000
Overall you've spent an extra $48,000 and saved $36,000.
Insurance, washing it etc. are similar for both so no need to factor them in in this comparison.
I think if you do the math that way you'll see that you bought a tesla because you wanted a tesla...not because it made sense. That's fine, but that undermines your argument about the Chademo adapter.
Your 'costs' when you own a car are, in broad strokes:
1. depreciation - this is the biggest one. Quoting your 'payments' doesn't really tell the true story. Focus on what the car will depreciate during your period of ownership as your purchase price less your sale price is your true 'cost'. Teslas are very efficient in this regard, but that's compared to other $120,000 cars , not compared to $60,000 cars. Against $60,000 cars, Teslas are very expensive. Over 8 years a $120,000 tesla will probably depreciate about 65% or $78,000 while a $60,000 petrol lexus will depreciate about 75% or $45,000. So you're in the hole $33,000 here.
2. fuel - if you drive 40,000 kms a year for 8 years, a typical 10l/100km vehicle will cost you $40,000. The tesla will probably cost you about $4,000 for that same period unless you supercharge exclusively. So you've 'saved' $36,000 here
3. maintenance - this is tough...we'll pretend they're equal. No teslas really have gone this far...maybe you'd neeed a whole new battery? or engine on the other car?
4. carrying cost if you initiate a loan to pay for it. This is another instance of false economy because you see a lower payment. The carrying charges of 8 years of compounding against you are huge, even at 2.5 or 3.5%. On a $120,000 car, this can add up to $15,000-18,000. Consider it to be 1/4 of that for the $60,000 car. This costs you about $15,000
Overall you've spent an extra $48,000 and saved $36,000.
Insurance, washing it etc. are similar for both so no need to factor them in in this comparison.
I think if you do the math that way you'll see that you bought a tesla because you wanted a tesla...not because it made sense. That's fine, but that undermines your argument about the Chademo adapter.
wallstguy
Member
Well I never said they "Cost the same" overall. I meant my monthly cost to the car, i went on the basis of if I can afford a $600 payment monthly on a Lexus, I can afford a $1200 payment on the criteria above. Yeah the payments go on longer, but the amount per month, the portion of my salary going towards them is consistent. It's just that instead of saving after 4 years, i'll still continue. etc.
I don't factor in depreciation, as I don't intend to sell. My Lexus I'm referring to I still own and pass it down the family type scenario.
2. Fuel - My Supercharging likely consists of around 60-70% of my total driving as I mainly drive long routes daily. It's why as a % of fuel costs, the cost of electricity is negligible and I didn't bother to even factor it in.
3. Maintenance is easy, not sure why you mention it is tough. There is no required maintenance, on a Tesla, vs the 2 annual visit minimum on a Lexus. New Battery/New Engine - Well this is covered under Tesla's 8 year unlimited km warranty. After 8 years sure might be something to worry about, although after 8 years I won't be dealing with it directly.
4. I understand the carrying costs etc. Trust me I'm an accountant haha. But I'm looking at the overall cash outflow on a monthly basis against my cash inflow to see if I can afford it.
As for the charger statement, again I'm bringing you back to it, if someone is barely affording a car, they have to cut back on the "extras". It's the same as say buying a house, but not getting a solar roof. Sure it'll be useful at some point, but no just because you can afford a house, doesn't mean you have the money there for the solar roof, etc.
mazeminder
Member
Thanks for getting the tread back on track. Hope it goes live soon. This location is gonna be clutch for a lot of people.
wallstguy
Member
I’m still hoping these are the full speed chargers like Chicago dressed as urban chargers!
Toronto Hydro ran new power lines to the Liberty Village parking lot last month, so that is promising... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
mazeminder
Member
Its a 10-12 minute drive on the Gardiner. @mhp_ - I live in Liberty Village and I'm eagerly awaiting the Liberty Village SC. I'm also curious which parking lot Toronto Hydro ran new power to.
Drone Flyer
Active Member
Similar threads
