They also need to pull all the cables through those conduits. Cables need to go from the switchgear to the Supercharger V3 Cabinets and from the Cabinets to the pedestals. The straps sticking out of the conduits are pull cords.
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Supercharger - Santa Rosa, CA (LIVE 20 Nov 2019, 20 V3 stalls)
- Thread starter mociaf9
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- California norcal supercharger
One more bit of speculation from me.
The small gray cabinet in the upper left of this picture with 6 conduits at the bottom may contain the command and control computer for the V3 Superchargers (5 cabinets) and Tesla Powerpack inverter (one cabinet). This computer could manage the site power usage, gathering data about how much power is being delivered by the Superchargers and telling the Powerpack inverter how much to charge or discharge. If the site gets busy, it could also throttle the aggregate Supercharger power delivery to remain within the utility service limits.
All purely speculation.
The small gray cabinet in the upper left of this picture with 6 conduits at the bottom may contain the command and control computer for the V3 Superchargers (5 cabinets) and Tesla Powerpack inverter (one cabinet). This computer could manage the site power usage, gathering data about how much power is being delivered by the Superchargers and telling the Powerpack inverter how much to charge or discharge. If the site gets busy, it could also throttle the aggregate Supercharger power delivery to remain within the utility service limits.
All purely speculation.
Thanks for clarifying the status of this new Supercharger location.
This station is likely multiple weeks away from opening. Tesla has to do a lot more work, PG&E has to install the transformer, and final inspections.
sammyfan711
Member
Awesome news! I hope the make it like Vegas and cover it with a solar canopy - any sign of solar installation?
Elon tweeted a couple of years ago about solar / power pack / V3 being the combo of the future
Elon tweeted a couple of years ago about solar / power pack / V3 being the combo of the future
I don't see them having transformer capability for 5MW continuous draw. The probability of having 20 Model 3 at 5% drive up at the same time is probably quite low... I would think there is a maximum duty for X time they design for. The battery pack would be providing some of that capacity too, so the actual draw from the utility is likely far less than 5MW. It just would not be economical to design for a max condition with zero probability of ever being utilized. I'm sure they have plenty of usage data about what type of draw they get at maxed out stations.
In the rare rare event that 20 cars drive up and all demand 250 kW, there would be load shedding to limit power output.
I agree. The Las Vegas Strip V3 installation appears to have a 2500kVA transformer. However, I can't tell from the photos and videos how many battery packs are there, so that might make a difference. I would also be interested to see how big the transformer is at Kettlman or Baker. 40 V2 stalls is theoretically similar to 20 V3 stalls. Both of those sites already have batteries too.
I doubt the retailers had any involvement in the site installation, but the property owners certainly did.
As to transformer sizes. At least one site has 16 stalls at 150 kw max each, no batteries, a 1.5 MW transformer, which they are likely running somewhat above capacity, say perhaps 1.6 to 1.8 MW. 1.8 MW output gives 200 kw per every 2 stalls x 8 cabinets. I would assume that Tesla has long had a site wide total power limiting system. Assume a 0.90 to 0.93 power efficiency for a supercharger cabinet, maybe higher for a V3 cabinet.
The official Tesla Powerpack data says 50 kw output for 2 hours, 4 packs gives a 200 kw boost. Say a charging session is 40 minutes, with 15 minutes at max power, then over 20 stalls they could probably get away with 150 kwh/stall "average" and thus a 2.5 MW transformer with 200-400 kw of battery boost might work for a few years until the place is solid booked with cars at 20 minute charge intervals.
The old liquid cooled cables at the Mountain View supercharger got very hot handles charging at 100 kw, so its reasonable to presume Tesla doesn't want to charge at 250 kwh for more than 10-15 minutes anyway. A certain amount of battery pack heating can be good, but once the cells reach top charging temp, it's necessary to either cool the pack further, or slow down the charging rate.
Maybe the rumored "refresh" model 3 battery based Model S / X performance will have a performance freezer package in the battery tray?
As to transformer sizes. At least one site has 16 stalls at 150 kw max each, no batteries, a 1.5 MW transformer, which they are likely running somewhat above capacity, say perhaps 1.6 to 1.8 MW. 1.8 MW output gives 200 kw per every 2 stalls x 8 cabinets. I would assume that Tesla has long had a site wide total power limiting system. Assume a 0.90 to 0.93 power efficiency for a supercharger cabinet, maybe higher for a V3 cabinet.
The official Tesla Powerpack data says 50 kw output for 2 hours, 4 packs gives a 200 kw boost. Say a charging session is 40 minutes, with 15 minutes at max power, then over 20 stalls they could probably get away with 150 kwh/stall "average" and thus a 2.5 MW transformer with 200-400 kw of battery boost might work for a few years until the place is solid booked with cars at 20 minute charge intervals.
The old liquid cooled cables at the Mountain View supercharger got very hot handles charging at 100 kw, so its reasonable to presume Tesla doesn't want to charge at 250 kwh for more than 10-15 minutes anyway. A certain amount of battery pack heating can be good, but once the cells reach top charging temp, it's necessary to either cool the pack further, or slow down the charging rate.
Maybe the rumored "refresh" model 3 battery based Model S / X performance will have a performance freezer package in the battery tray?
TerranApart
Member
The Oxnard supercharger runs 20x150kW stalls on a 1000kVA transformer, so oversubscription and curtailment is definitely a thing, although are you certain about overdriving the transformer? From what I've heard, overdriving a transformer is a great way to get it to fail prematurely and something that a company typically wouldn't do.
Regardless, the note from miimura about Las Vegas using a 2500kVA transformer is telling, and your numbers suggesting something in the 2000-2500kVA range for the Santa Rosa charger seem reasonable. Very curious to see what Santa Rosa actually gets.
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Ulmo
Active Member
I’ve heard the opposite: that PG&E does it all the time, depending on night to cool the transformers down. We need FLIRs and expected use curves and use scheduling for transformers in our smart grid, and that’s been known for decades, yet the effort to make sure we have crappy grids is so strong there isn’t even a mention of that concept, so I’m not surprised you didn’t know about it.
I talked to a Tesla employee today at the Coddingtown supercharger site. When I asked him when it would be completed, he said in about 3 weeks
Stopped by today (Aug 5) around 3pm to see some progress. As @miimura said, they are pulling cables from some new large cabinets to the SC pedestals. There is a large concrete pad (not pictured below) behind a wooden enclosure that is for PG&E's transformer but, as confirmed by the tech, it hasn't been delivered. I asked about solar and the tech said he didn't think so - there are no concrete bases for vertical supports near the parking areas.
Love the fact that the Tesla techs are driving Mercedes vans.
Love the fact that the Tesla techs are driving Mercedes vans.
AlasCon
Member
Great news for my home town! No more driving to other cities to charge - especially nice for me since I live in a rental (our house burned down in the Tubbs fire 2017) and we only have a 110V trickle charger in the garage until we get rebuilt next year. But I couldn't wait that long to buy a Tesla M3 earlier this year: LOVE that puppy! Just completed a 2,000 mile road trip to Washington state and Idaho, and charging went fine, at least along I5 and main state routes. But the SuperCharger network does have some "blank spots" still, like all of central Idaho and large parts of Nevada: kind of like that "Here Be Monsters" for unknown areas on old world navigation maps
AlasCon
Member
Hey all, we're live in Santa Rosa, CA at the Coddingtown Mall per 6pm tonight! About 10-12 available along the Guerneville Road side and more being installed perpendicular into the parking lot. Now the usual challenge: how do we keep non-Teslas from parking here ;-)
AMPd
Well-Known Member
Yes, the big question is what kind of charge rate you got. We think this is a V3 Supercharger.
AMPd
Well-Known Member
Moderator note: I've partially rolled-back my last edit to the thread title. Based on the last couple of posts here, there's a bit of uncertainty as to whether this station is truly available yet. More data welcomed, one of your friendly moderators will update as appropriate.
Bruce.
Bruce.
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