Supercharger V3 over 350kW

[zambono]

Elon Musk teases new ‘Tesla Supercharger V3’ with over 350 kW power output and off-grid solar + Powerpacks

Someone with all the electrical math knowledge will the batteries in the current cars be able to handle the wattage? Specifically 90, 75

 

[ALLMYNE]

Exactly what I'm hoping for too,..,..sure hope so for one more check off the "future proof" list
Wonder what the max kW input the current 75 / 90 / 100 configurations can actually handle?

 

[CT200h]

Let's see 350kw of charging power into a 100kwh pack is 3.5C
I charge hobby liPo packs at 3.5c
Most current dcfc limited to around 2c max.
Example 24kw leaf charged at around 48,000 watts peak

350kw charging power now that puts quite a load on the local grid.
Not sure about that.
I'm sure if he is talking about it publicly
It's doable.

 

[Gen3]

I don't know much about the subject but I figure it will be for next gen battery packs to handle a higher voltage. My bet is the new packs will be able to switch internal contacts to rearrange for higher voltage, and I bet older pack will not allow this. Or tesla could be developing the next gen motors to run on something a lot higher than 400V.

 

[zambono]

Let's see 350kw of charging power into a 100kwh pack is 3.5C
I charge hobby liPo packs at 3.5c
Most current dcfc limited to around 2c max.
Example 24kw leaf charged at around 48,000 watts peak

350kw charging power now that puts quite a load on the local grid.
Not sure about that.
I'm sure if he is talking about it publicly
It's doable.

I am sure they are coming my question was more in the vein of will I see an increase of my charging times if I go to a 350kW supercharger or are they for future batteries. Would be nice to just do 15 - 20 minute stops after driving 3 hours as opposed to close to an hour.

 

[bob_p]

We had been waiting to purchase a replacement for our "classic" P85, until we could order a 100D with over 300 miles of range and at leat the same performance as our P85, along with the AP 2.0 hardware.

But now... If V3 superchargers are on the horizon, that's another game changer - and that could delay us from ordering our P85 replacement - unless Tesla can confirm the 100D (if/when it is produced) will be able to take full advantage of the V3 superchargers.

We want the longer range and AP 2.0 features because we plan to take more long road trips with our next Tesla - and if waiting a little while longer will reduce the supercharger waits to 5-10 minutes, we'll keep driving our P85 a little longer (it's still a great car, without all of the new features added in the last 4 years).

 

[spottyq]

Since the most recent superchargers are 150kW and AFAIK nobody has seen more than 121kW getting into their cars, I think no current cars will be able to charge at such a speed.

But you would still benefit from a higher capacity charger; for example if they keep their current shared charger setup, two (current) cars charging could both get 121kW.

Or if they lose some capacity (grid limitation, defective subcharger or whatever) you would still get those 120kW.

 

[zambono]

Since the most recent superchargers are 150kW and AFAIK nobody has seen more than 121kW getting into their cars, I think no current cars will be able to charge at such a speed.

But you would still benefit from a higher capacity charger; for example if they keep their current shared charger setup, two (current) cars charging could both get 121kW.

Or if they lose some capacity (grid limitation, defective subcharger or whatever) you would still get those 120kW.

Hoping for some software limitation

 

[wycolo]

> Or Tesla could be developing the next gen motors to run on something a lot higher than 400V. [Gen3]

Actually the motors are optimized to run on around 70 volts AC output of the 'inverter' which is being fed the nominal 400 DC battery volts. So just change the inverter to handle higher voltages ( fear!! ).
--

 

[phigment]

I don't know much about the subject but I figure it will be for next gen battery packs to handle a higher voltage. My bet is the new packs will be able to switch internal contacts to rearrange for higher voltage, and I bet older pack will not allow this. Or tesla could be developing the next gen motors to run on something a lot higher than 400V.

Voltage has nothing to do with the charging rate a battery can accept.

 

[wesley888]

350kw charging power now that puts quite a load on the local grid.
Not sure about that.
I'm sure if he is talking about it publicly
It's doable.

I was thinking the same as well, but he also mentioned that all of the pieces in place and solar and power pack. I think he already have that in mind, not to hit the local grid as much.

 

[jbcarioca]

Also, the Powerpacks have been said to provide for DC charging. Using Powerpacks can provide substantial surge buffering for high grid loads. In any even these loads are not unusual for grid applications that also must deal with major industrial demand surges and ebbs. Battery buffers will stabilise transient peaks that are harder for grid response.

 

[Bangor Bob]

Powerpacks are likely cheaper (internally) than paying utility demand charges.

The P100D battery can discharge at 5C for a little while, I wonder how long it can charge at a high C rate? We've heard there is a heatpipe-based cooling system in the newest packs - this may be enabling a higher charge rate as well.

 

[ColdRauv]

Too bad the existing superchargers cannot be upgraded to 350kw. Infrastructure in place at each SC wont support it, so new supercharger sites will be required.

 

[Vger]

Powerpacks are likely cheaper (internally) than paying utility demand charges.

The P100D battery can discharge at 5C for a little while, I wonder how long it can charge at a high C rate? We've heard there is a heatpipe-based cooling system in the newest packs - this may be enabling a higher charge rate as well.

Having just taken delivery of a P100D, I can only hope on this front.

Also, I think it is pretty clear he is talking about direct battery to battery transfer, even if grid-connected.

In any case, altruistically, I can only be delighted that Tesla is preparing to take this step. This is the last nail in the ICE coffin.

 

[Vger]

Too bad the existing superchargers cannot be upgraded to 350kw. Infrastructure in place at each SC wont support it, so new supercharger sites will be required.

With the PowerPack 2 battery buffering, I am not sure that is true.

 

[scaesare]

Interesting... It will indeed be all about the batteries.

For those interested in the implications of charging at such higher rates, we had some discussion about this with the announcement of the 350kW CCS chargers: Battery Format for Model 3 - 18650 commodity cells or large format batteries

 

[McRat]

You should be able to hit over 1400 horsepower if the car will accept 3.5 C recharging for 8 years on a 100kWh array.

 

[Gen3]

Voltage has nothing to do with the charging rate a battery can accept.

Amps have everything to do with size of cable required. To increase power tesla can make the cable and connector much bigger, actively cool the cables, or increase the voltage.

 

[phigment]

Amps have everything to do with size of cable required. To increase power tesla can make the cable and connector much bigger, actively cool the cables, or increase the voltage.

The pack cannot be charged quicker than the individual cell. If you put too much power in to the cell at any given time it will burn out.
It doesn't matter how much voltage, current or active cooling you have available, you cannot charge the tesla cells much faster than about 1C (on average, ignoring charger curve) (right now you can charge over 1C when the battery is in a low SOC, but that drops to < 1C as it fills up)

In order to charge a battery quicker you need to change the chemistry.

All the cells in the car are already charging simultaneously. Using a higher voltage merely means that you put more batteries in series, it's not like you're applying a higher voltage to each cell (which would be dangerous unless the chemistry supports it).