Superchargers for Model 3

[timk225]

I'm not an English professor, but when Tesla says "free unlimited supercharging", I think "free unlimited supercharging".

I'm going to get a Model 3 reservation on the first day, and at this time there's only one SC in my area (Pittsburgh), and it is a good 15-20 miles away. And I'm a second floor apartment dweller, so although my car would be right outside my window with not even a sidewalk in the way, home charging wouldn't always be the best option. If I were low on charge, I'd go to the local SC to fill up, but for typical day to day use, home charging will probably suffice.

Except in winter, where some of the charge power will go to just keeping the battery warmed up.

I think that instead of charging $2000 for free unlimited supercharger use, maybe all Teslas should be able to use superchargers, all the time. And when you go to an SC, there's a SMALL fee, like $1.00 or $2.00 to use it. That way you are charged based on usage, it would be enough to cover the cost of the power (and, over time, the SC installation).

Since the car communicates with the charger, it shouldn't be hard for Tesla to monitor and bill us once a month for SC use.

That seems like the most fair solution to me.

 

[TslaIsFuture]

Unless a majority of all Tesla owners use the SC for daily charging......the $2000 for activation more than pays for the SC install, maintenance, electricity. There has been plenty of math put out there on the forums as to cost of SC's and Tesla is making money on the SC activation cost and will continue to do so until their SC network is near complete....then the profit margins will be amazing.

I also agree that "Free for life...for all Tesla models" means just that. This argument seems as ridiculous as the interpretation of "Pictures of the M3 will be shown on March 31" as only pictures will be shown and no prototype. just my 2cents

 

[Chuq]

Easy fix for local supercharger hogs:

I don't know how easy this is. I'm sure it's quite easy to implement technically, but trying to explain this to a new buyer?

I think the solution is one I read earlier in this thread - build "Citychargers" in lieu of "Superchargers" in the major cities. Make sure there are enough SCs for drivers passing through (perhaps on the edges of large cities), but make the Citychargers a nominal cost ($5/hour) so it is still cheap enough to charge at, but that people don't take advantage of it by parking there all day.[/QUOTE]

 

[MiamiNole]

I'm not an English professor, but when Tesla says "free unlimited supercharging", I think "free unlimited supercharging".

Can somebody point out to me where exactly it says "free unlimited supercharging" on Tesla's website? Everywhere I've looked on the website, Tesla has made it clear that Superchargers are for "long distance travel". In the Model S spec section, it clearly states "Free long distance travel using Tesla's Supercharger network". In the FAQs on the supercharger support section, it says "Superchargers are used for long distance travel, conveniently located along the most popular routes in North America, Europe and Asia." It also says "Supercharging is free for the life of Model S, once the Supercharger option is enabled." But nowhere do I see it say "free unlimited supercharging".

Local charging is not the intent of the supercharger network. They've made it clear that they intend the network to be used for long distance travel, while at the same time, they are working to include charging at popular destinations (malls, resorts, etc). But not as a solution for people that don't have access to a charging solution at home.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think the solution is one I read earlier in this thread - build "Citychargers" in lieu of "Superchargers" in the major cities. Make sure there are enough SCs for drivers passing through (perhaps on the edges of large cities), but make the Citychargers a nominal cost ($5/hour) so it is still cheap enough to charge at, but that people don't take advantage of it by parking there all day.

That is exactly what I suggested too. Of course I was dismissed by saying such chargers are not a workable business model and that I should open one myself it I thought it would work. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks this is a workable solution (that keeps the supercharger network intact as it is today).

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

Tesla has a fix, it's make supercharger, charge nothing. And included in every car.

The problem was people PARKING in supercharging stalls. With your gas car you don't pull up to the pump put the fuel hose in and then go to work for the day.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Can somebody point out to me where exactly it says "free unlimited supercharging" on Tesla's website? Everywhere I've looked on the website, Tesla has made it clear that Superchargers are for "long distance travel".

Yes, this had been discussed and it is pretty clear from the start (back in 2012), superchargers were for long distance travel. As far as I know, they never used "unlimited" in any of their web pages or marketing literature.

However, they did use extensive mention of "free" and mentioned long distance repeatedly:

Tesla is able to provide Model S owners(1) free long distance travel indefinitely.

Tesla Motors Launches Revolutionary Supercharger Enabling Convenient Long Distance Driving (NASDAQ:TSLA)

The only two instances of the use of the phrase "unlimited" I found were in an email to early 60kWh owners that waived their supercharger activation fee (because Tesla didn't release activation details before those 60kWh were ordered) and also in one of Tesla's software release notes.

 

[SureValla]

Can somebody point out to me where exactly it says "free unlimited supercharging"

the idea stems from Elon Musk himself when asked in 2013:

"Superchargers will always be free. They will be free forever."

The Engadget Interview: Tesla's Elon Musk promises more Superchargers, better service, cheaper EVs that don't suck

 

[nwdiver]

Tesla definitely wasn't as careful in their wording when they initially introduced the superchargers.. they have taken pains to be more clear recently.

I suspect that prior to delivering model 3s they will take further measures to ensure there is no confusion. Superchargers are not there to lower your electric bill... that's what SolarCity is for

If you don't have a place to charge at home or work then the solution to that problem isn't a $250k L3 fast charger... it's a $50 outlet or a $750 HPWC. It's always going to be easier, cheaper and far far more convenient to install more L2 than more L3.

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

If you don't have a place to charge at home or work then the solution to that problem isn't a $250k L3 fast charger... it's a $50 outlet or a $750 HPWC. It's always going to be easier, cheaper and far far more convenient to install more L2 than more L3.

Your correct here.

As far as intercity travel, Tesla could easily build a supercharger package for utilities to provide a similar setup as today's gas stations. The local utilities pays a portion, tesla pays a portion, and then the utilities sell metered power. Unrelated to Tesla's free long distance superchargers. We could have Solarcity convenience store in all metropolitan areas selling solar energy to Telsa and other electric cars with other L3 options.

When all the Tesla's spend less time at a charger and can travel farther then the compition, you have free marketing.

 

[stopcrazypp]

the idea stems from Elon Musk himself when asked in 2013:
Elon Musk said:
"Superchargers will always be free. They will be free forever."
The Engadget Interview: Tesla's Elon Musk promises more Superchargers, better service, cheaper EVs that don't suck

That says free forever, but doesn't say "unlimited".

So to keep that promise, Tesla can't start charging per use fees for charging at locations branded as "superchargers". However, they can throttle usage, put limits on local usage or overall usage, or build other chargers that are pay per use (but not branded as "superchargers"). There are other more creative things (like charging for parking for cars that overstay at a stall without charging).

I've used this analogy before, but T-mobile has a "free for life" data plan for tablets. But it is not "unlimited" (there is a limit of 250MB per month).

 

[SureValla]

That says free forever, but doesn't say "unlimited".

So to keep that promise, Tesla can't start charging per use fees for charging at locations branded as "superchargers". However, they can throttle usage, put limits on local usage or overall usage, or build other chargers that are pay per use (but not branded as "superchargers").

I've used this analogy before, but T-mobile has a "free for life" data plan for tablets. But it is not "unlimited" (there is a limit of 250MB per month).

I trust Mr. Musk

 

[stopcrazypp]

I trust Mr. Musk

You missed my point. It is not about trusting Musk, it's that Musk never promised what you are saying he promised: "free unlimited supercharging". Basically "Free forever" also does not equal "free unlimited".

Forever refers to the time frame of it being free (for example it can be set as free for one year only if they didn't say forever).
Unlimited refers to usage within that time frame (for example Tesla can theoretically set a limit of 1000kWh per year or long distance only limit, given they didn't say it was unlimited).

They are not describing the same things.

 

[SureValla]

You missed my point. It is not about trusting Musk, it's that Musk never promised what you are saying he promised: "free unlimited supercharging". Basically "Free forever" also does not equal "free unlimited".

Forever refers to the time frame of it being free (for example it can be free for one year only).
Unlimited refers to usage within that time frame (for example Tesla can theoretically set a limit of 1000kWh per year if they didn't say it was unlimited).

They are not describing the same things.

Don't worry I didn't miss it. I should have been more clear. I trust him not to turn Tesla into T-mobile.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Don't worry I didn't miss it. I should have been more clear. I trust him not to turn Tesla into T-mobile.

I did an edit later. Perhaps the hard limit of kWh per year is a bad example (I don't see that likely either), but as relevant to this thread, I don't see it out of possibility that Tesla can implement a "long distance only" provision (whether soft or hard, with exceptions to those Tesla designed superchargers as a home charging replacement in large cities). The warning letters are a preview of this.

 

[dgpcolorado]

My recollection is that "forever" actually meant "for the life of the car". It is entirely possible that future cars, such as the Model 3, will not have "free for the life of the car" offered, while existing cars, or high-end later models, will be grandfathered in.

 

[Kurt Foster]

I feel like Superchargers were invented like free gas stations more or less. They started early like an early piggy bank and now they have a lot and in the future when they (tesla) makes more money from model 3's they will build even more. I feel like at some point superchargers are a way for the mass public to charge off of solar panels for free so the transition to sustainable energy is even faster.

 

[MassModel3]

I feel like Superchargers were invented like free gas stations more or less. They started early like an early piggy bank and now they have a lot and in the future when they (tesla) makes more money from model 3's they will build even more. I feel like at some point superchargers are a way for the mass public to charge off of solar panels for free so the transition to sustainable energy is even faster.

They never really slowed down, but with the coming Model 3 they'll need to quicken their pace even more.

According the the website supercharge.info (world's best site for Supercharger information!), there are currently 613 Superchargers around the world (257 int he US), 9 in the construction phase (4 in the US), and another 28 permits drawn for new construction (17 in the US).

I copied the following chart from supercharge.info so I hope they don't mind.

 

[sports4eva115]

it's probably been said before already, but more stations really doesn't fix the problem... if necessary Tesla should invest in creating secondary structures to accommodate more vehicles at a hot SC station. If they can build a 2nd floor, they'll vastly increase the number of SC's at a startion to handle at least double, if not triple, the number of vehicles.

 

[roguenode]

it's probably been said before already, but more stations really doesn't fix the problem... if necessary Tesla should invest in creating secondary structures to accommodate more vehicles at a hot SC station. If they can build a 2nd floor, they'll vastly increase the number of SC's at a startion to handle at least double, if not triple, the number of vehicles.

Nor does only adding more at existing locations. High use SC's would absolutely benefit from increases in the amount of chargers to handle expected demand. But some routes, for example, along I-80, simply need SC locations.