Supercharging - Elon's statement that Daily Supercharging Users are Receiving Notes

[gnxs]

I comfortable with your entire summary. Except that last part. "Feel"? "Implication"? Nope. I was directly stated by official Tesla Motors representatives (both in the store and when they visited the my workplace with several cars on a "green day") that SuperChargers were free for unlimited use as long as you own the car. We had whole conversations about the limitations or lack thereof.

As I mentioned in a prior post, I don't, and won't ever, have a SC where I can skip any significant portion of my home charging. So my participation in this thread is purely abstract.

But please, people who are saying "be reasonable" or "don't cherry pick the web site"... please acknowledge that at least some people, including me, were explicitly told by official company representatives that supercharging was absolutely unrestricted, including asking for clarification on "travel only" and being told "nope, unlimited".

I have had exactly the same experience and gotten the same message from all the Tesla reps I've interacted with (which includes a Store Manager, several Owner Advisors, at least one Product Specialist, and my Delivery Specialist).

Maybe their message will change going forward to now commonly mention the "meant for long-distance travel" part, but when I was shopping for my car the were utilizing the unconditional "Free for Life" message to the fullest.

All of those I've seen on here has been based on the web site. You're the only person who has ever given me an impression that they got that in person from a Salesperson...

If I'm wrong on this and this was a message from a store, anybody else, please speak up now.

Who on here has had a Tesla sales person, before ordering the car, give them any impression that they can reduce their ownership cost by Supercharging? Or pushed 'free, unlimited' as a bigger deal than 'long distance' in any way?

I would doubt many people ran into a Sales Rep specifically pushing the angle of reducing somebody's cost of ownership, they merely sell it as Free Unlimited SC'ing for Life. I indicated my experience above.

 

[callmesam]

I have had exactly the same experience and gotten the same message from all the Tesla reps I've interacted with (which includes a Store Manager, several Owner Advisors, at least one Product Specialist, and my Delivery Specialist).

Maybe their message will change going forward to now commonly mention the "meant for long-distance travel" part, but when I was shopping for my car the were utilizing the unconditional "Free for Life" message to the fullest.

hey dirtbag, stop being such a moocher. Couldn't you read between the lines what Tesla meant by "free for life?"

;-)

 

[bonnie]

I personally have told several people that supercharging was 'free for life'. It just never occurred to me that anyone would use it as a way to avoid paying a few dollars for electricity or assume that Tesla was doing anything but removing barriers to ownership. We'd talk about how you could travel the country using supercharging & I'd add 'and you'll never pay for it'.

I've checked back with two of those friends to see if they misunderstood me. Both reacted along the lines of 'people thought that meant they'd never have to pay a cent for electricity?'.

I've always seen supercharging as Tesla's way of removing barriers to ownership. Where they've placed superchargers supports this. I've never heard a salesperson or an EV enthusiast say anything to indicate that people should use supercharging instead of charging at home.

For those of you who believe that's what you heard ... did you also hear the common message of 'you wake up every morning with a full battery, never have to stop at a gas station again'? Because that's been a very common theme & it implies charging at home. Context & full picture. No one statement can be taken as standalone (as supported by the overwhelmingly large percentage of forum members who believe the message has been consistent).

Removal of barriers. That's how I believe supercharging has been consistently promoted, from the beginning.

 

[gnxs]

hey dirtbag, stop being such a moocher. Couldn't you read between the lines what Tesla meant by "free for life?"

;-)

lol.....I am in a position that I am able to mooch by charging locally (and occasionally there are times that it's even convenient to use the SC near my home), but I typically find it far easier to just plug in at home. I'm also lucky in that the Time Of Use plan I'm on with my utility typically has very low rates and very occasionally has negative hourly prices where the utility actually PAYS ME to charge my car in the wee hours of the morning. I don't want to miss out on that.

- - - Updated - - -

I personally have told several people that supercharging was 'free for life'. It just never occurred to me that anyone would use it as a way to avoid paying a few dollars for electricity or assume that Tesla was doing anything but removing barriers to ownership. We'd talk about how you could travel the country using supercharging & I'd add 'and you'll never pay for it'.

I've checked back with two of those friends to see if they misunderstood me. Both reacted along the lines of 'people thought that meant they'd never have to pay a cent for electricity?'.

I've always seen supercharging as Tesla's way of removing barriers to ownership. Where they've placed superchargers supports this. I've never heard a salesperson or an EV enthusiast say anything to indicate that people should use supercharging instead of charging at home.

For those of you who believe that's what you heard ... did you also hear the common message of 'you wake up every morning with a full battery, never have to stop at a gas station again'? Because that's been a very common theme & it implies charging at home. Context & full picture. No one statement can be taken as standalone (as supported by the overwhelmingly large percentage of forum members who believe the message has been consistent).

Removal of barriers. That's how I believe supercharging has been consistently promoted, from the beginning.

Your last paragraph is certainly true.

My experience with every Tesla rep I've interacted with isn't that they identified all these specific benefits of supercharging, it's that they did just the opposite, didn't mention any specific usage intent and just noted that using the network was free for life.......period.

As far as you mentioning this message: "you wake up every morning with a full battery, never have to stop at a gas station again?"........yes I did hear that message. However, it wasn't mentioned in a discussion about SC'ers, it was mentioned when we were discussing EV's in general. In fact I brought it up to them because we already had a Focus EV in the garage (my wife's commuter) and I was always spouting off on how great it was because my wife despises having to stop at gas stations and she loves just plugging in when she gets home.

 

[callmesam]

lol.....I am in a position that I am able to mooch by charging locally (and occasionally there are times that it's even convenient to use the SC near my home), but I typically find it far easier to just plug in at home. I'm also lucky in that the Time Of Use plan I'm on with my utility typically has very low rates and very occasionally has negative hourly prices where the utility actually PAYS ME to charge my car in the wee hours of the morning. I don't want to miss out on that.

- - - Updated - - -


Your last paragraph is certainly true.

My experience with every Tesla rep I've interacted with isn't that they identified all these specific benefits of supercharging, it's that they did just the opposite, didn't mention any specific usage intent and just noted that using the network was free for life.......period.

As far as you mentioning this message: "you wake up every morning with a full battery, never have to stop at a gas station again?"........yes I did hear that message. However, it wasn't mentioned in a discussion about SC'ers, it was mentioned when we were discussing EV's in general. In fact I brought it up to them because we already had a Focus EV in the garage (my wife's commuter) and I was always spouting off on how great it was because my wife despises having to stop at gas stations and she loves just plugging in when she gets home.

So what you're saying is that you found an even more efficient mooching scenario in which you don't even have to leave the house to be a dirtbag. Got it!

lol

 

[bonnie]

As far as you mentioning this message: "you wake up every morning with a full battery, never have to stop at a gas station again?"........yes I did hear that message. However, it wasn't mentioned in a discussion about SC'ers, it was mentioned when we were discussing EV's in general. In fact I brought it up to them because we already had a Focus EV in the garage (my wife's commuter) and I was always spouting off on how great it was because my wife despises having to stop at gas stations and she loves just plugging in when she gets home.

I wouldn't expect it would be part of a supercharger message - was only saying that, in my experience, it's part of an overall discussion on advantages of the car - and helps with the context of what superchargers are for.

I am not saying you're not accurate in your report of what various employees said . Only suggesting that the bigger context implies a different usage model, if we're taking every statement at face value and not just some. If we're talking about supercharging, 'And hey! It's free!' and then more in the convo about 'waking up every morning with a full battery' - well, if someone didn't understand about supercharging usage model then they'd likely question 'but how can I wake up every morning with a full battery??'.

To be clear, I don't think Elon or Tesla has ever discouraged any particular usage model. And I don't think he was referring to people stopping occasionally to charge locally. And yes, they have put superchargers in urban areas for apartment dwellers - to remove barriers to sales. I also believe there have been a few people truly abusing the system (as callmesam has pointed out) and those were the people that Elon was referring to.

I also believe their message has been consistent from the day they announced & the message has always been about how to help people envision an EV in their garage. As lolo and others have pointed out, even with the annoying deduction in price for gas savings, they've never looked at supercharging as a TCO reduction of 100% of your gas costs gone. They've had calculators for determining gas savings and 'how long it will take you to charge with these various types of EVSE's and outlets'. They offer recommended electricians and sell an EVSE for home use. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that there hasn't been an intent to supply all electricity to every Tesla owner.

 

[gnxs]

So what you're saying is that you found an even more efficient mooching scenario in which you don't even have to leave the house to be a dirtbag. Got it!

lol

You made me spit out my coffee with that one.

 

[callmesam]

I wouldn't expect it would be part of a supercharger message - was only saying that, in my experience, it's part of an overall discussion on advantages of the car - and helps with the context of what superchargers are for.

I am not saying you're not accurate in your report of what various employees said . Only suggesting that the bigger context implies a different usage model, if we're taking every statement at face value and not just some. If we're talking about supercharging, 'And hey! It's free!' and then more in the convo about 'waking up every morning with a full battery' - well, if someone didn't understand about supercharging usage model then they'd likely question 'but how can I wake up every morning with a full battery??'.

To be clear, I don't think Elon or Tesla has ever discouraged any particular usage model. And I don't think he was referring to people stopping occasionally to charge locally. And yes, they have put superchargers in urban areas for apartment dwellers - to remove barriers to sales. I also believe there have been a few people truly abusing the system (as callmesam has pointed out) and those were the people that Elon was referring to.

I also believe their message has been consistent from the day they announced & the message has always been about how to help people envision an EV in their garage. As lolo and others have pointed out, even with the annoying deduction in price for gas savings, they've never looked at supercharging as a TCO reduction of 100% of your gas costs gone. They've had calculators for determining gas savings and 'how long it will take you to charge with these various types of EVSE's and outlets'. They offer recommended electricians and sell an EVSE for home use. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that there hasn't been an intent to supply all electricity to every Tesla owner.

best statement yet summarizing state of affairs.

Charge at home, if possible. It's cheap, convenient and simple.

Road trips are on us.

If you have ANY problems charging at home or work, feel free to charge at a convenient supercharger.

Don't be an ass.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I wouldn't expect it would be part of a supercharger message - was only saying that, in my experience, it's part of an overall discussion on advantages of the car - and helps with the context of what superchargers are for.

I am not saying you're not accurate in your report of what various employees said . Only suggesting that the bigger context implies a different usage model, if we're taking every statement at face value and not just some. If we're talking about supercharging, 'And hey! It's free!' and then more in the convo about 'waking up every morning with a full battery' - well, if someone didn't understand about supercharging usage model then they'd likely question 'but how can I wake up every morning with a full battery??'.

To be clear, I don't think Elon or Tesla has ever discouraged any particular usage model. And I don't think he was referring to people stopping occasionally to charge locally. And yes, they have put superchargers in urban areas for apartment dwellers - to remove barriers to sales. I also believe there have been a few people truly abusing the system (as callmesam has pointed out) and those were the people that Elon was referring to.

I also believe their message has been consistent from the day they announced & the message has always been about how to help people envision an EV in their garage. As lolo and others have pointed out, even with the annoying deduction in price for gas savings, they've never looked at supercharging as a TCO reduction of 100% of your gas costs gone. They've had calculators for determining gas savings and 'how long it will take you to charge with these various types of EVSE's and outlets'. They offer recommended electricians and sell an EVSE for home use. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that there hasn't been an intent to supply all electricity to every Tesla owner.

I agree about the removal of barrier to sales angle. That is Tesla's intent. The "free, unlimited" has been a beneficial message in pursuing that intent. It was never about long-distance driving only, it has always been about removal of barrier to sales. That's why Tesla builds urban chargers in London, where a barrier to sale exists (road-parking), but refuse to do the same on Oslo, where no real barrier to sale exists (massive tax break offsets many other inconveniences).

I think it is important to distinguish, though, nobody is claiming Tesla's intent - or a realistic requirement - would be to supply all electricity to every Tesla owner. Even us who believe the unlimited message didn't express any intent or limit the customer should heed (removal of barrier to sales is not an intent the customer needs to concern themselves with), don't claim that.

Just like with any fixed-price system, there will be low users and high users. Tesla can and will control the use of the Supercharger system by three things: location, location, location. By placing (and moving if need be) Superchargers smartly, they will attempt to keep striking that balance - as they should, of course. They will of course promote other means of charging too, like home and destination charging, to lessen the burden on Superchargers. If in the future the fixed-price system no longer works due to changing circumstances, like a new high-volume car model, then they may consider changing the system. Or maybe they won't change it.

 

[scaesare]

For those who want to parse Tesla's written guidance on the Superchargers to determine if there was a strict prohibition against daily Supercharging use so you can avoid paying for your own electricity: There wasn't. You win.

However, for those who are expecting Tesla to act strictly like traditional companies, they don't. They recognized that urban-dwelling folks had limited options, and so ADDED additional infrastructure to accommodate such folks. Also at no cost. I hope folks realize such and thank Tesla. That additional provision, however, in no way invalidates the purpose of the existing Supercharger infrastructure.

Subsequently we've recently heard Elon provide more detail regarding their intent. You may have not understood that intent previously... but you are in the vast minority.

So what now? What are you still arguing about? Are you intent on your winning standpoint and thus going to use the system (again, urban dwellers and the occasional top-off for rapid turnaround, etc... isn't at issue) just to avoid paying at home anyway?

If so, you may feel you win, but we all lose.

It's not what Tesla wants. It's not what 90% of folks feel is correct. It doesn't scale well. It might well impact how freely Tesla makes services available in the future. It may very well push them to HAVE to start acting like the other companies we often despise.

But perhaps most important: Tesla did this to make EV's easy for the world to use, and thus change the mind of billions and remove barriers to EV adoption.

Thus I don't think the posts wrangling over the few dollars of charging per session incurred to Tesla matter one wit. I suspect Elon doesn't want an unmanageable mess of clogged superchargers and therefore fail to remove one of the last and most significant barriers to long distance travel. That's why you see that phrase plastered all over the Supercharging pages.

So, if you decide to press your viewpoint and save a few bucks a month, congratulations: you are are ultimately working against the much larger issue Elon is trying to solve.

 

[gnxs]

...............I also believe their message has been consistent from the day they announced & the message has always been about how to help people envision an EV in their garage. As lolo and others have pointed out, even with the annoying deduction in price for gas savings, they've never looked at supercharging as a TCO reduction of 100% of your gas costs gone. They've had calculators for determining gas savings and 'how long it will take you to charge with these various types of EVSE's and outlets'. They offer recommended electricians and sell an EVSE for home use. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that there hasn't been an intent to supply all electricity to every Tesla owner.

Agreed bonnie.

The unconditional Free For Life message I always got when I was shopping for this car never made me expect that Tesla would foot my entire electric bill for my S, but I also don't expect to have to think about whether using the SC is appropriate for a given situation. If I need to use it, whether on a trip or near home, I will.

I'm going to use the SC network, Public charging and home charging in whatever combination I need to in order to make my move from an ICE vehicle to an EV transparent and I believe that's essentially Elon's intent.

 

[scaesare]

Agreed bonnie.

The unconditional Free For Life message I always got when I was shopping for this car never made me expect that Tesla would foot my entire electric bill for my S, but I also don't expect to have to think about whether using the SC is appropriate for a given situation. If I need to use it, whether on a trip or near home, I will.

And I don't think anybody has a problem with that.

 

[Lloyd]

For those who want to parse Tesla's written guidance on the Superchargers to determine of there was a strict prohibition against daily Supercharging use so you can avoid paying for your own electricity: There wasn't. You win.

However, for those who are expecting Tesla to act strictly like traditional companies, they don't. They recognized that urban-dwelling folks had limited options, and so ADDED additional infrastructure to accommodate such folks. Also at no cost. I hope folks realize such and thank Tesla. That additional provision, however, in no way invalidates the purpose of the existing Supercharger infrastructure.

Subsequently we've recently heard Elon provide more detail regarding their intent. You may have not understood that intent previously... but you are in the vast minority.

So what now? What are you still arguing about? Are you intent on your winning standpoint and thus going to use the system (again, urban dwellers and the occasional top-off for rapid turnaround, etc... isn't at issue) just to avoid paying at home anyway?

If so, you may feel you win, but we all lose.

It's not what Tesla wants. It's not what 90% of folks feel is correct. It doesn't scale well. It might well impact how freely Tesla makes services available in the future. It may very well push them to HAVE to start acting like the other companies we often despise.

But perhaps most important: Tesla did this to make EV's easy for the world to use, and thus change the mind of billions and remove barriers EV adoption.

Thus I don't think the posts wrangling over the few dollars of charging per session incurred to Tesla matter one wit. I suspect Elon doesn't want an unmanageable mess of clogged superchargers and therefore fail to remove one of the last and most significant barriers to long distance travel. That's why you see that phrase plastered all over the Supercharging pages.

So, if you decide to press your viewpoint and save a few bucks a month, congratulations: you are are ultimately working against the much larger issue Elon is trying to solve.

Nicely Stated for both sides of this debate:

 

[TexasEV]

Agreed bonnie.

The unconditional Free For Life message I always got when I was shopping for this car never made me expect that Tesla would foot my entire electric bill for my S, but I also don't expect to have to think about whether using the SC is appropriate for a given situation. If I need to use it, whether on a trip or near home, I will.

I'm going to use the SC network, Public charging and home charging in whatever combination I need to in order to make my move from an ICE vehicle to an EV transparent and I believe that's essentially Elon's intent.

I think everyone here agrees with you. Of course if you need to use it, then use it, and don't think about it. No one here has suggested otherwise. The only concern is with people who could install 240V charging at home but don't, and routinely do all their charging at the local supercharger to avoid paying for electricity, and think there is nothing wrong with that because that use wasn't specifically excluded in Tesla's message.

 

[dsm363]

best statement yet summarizing state of affairs.

Charge at home, if possible. It's cheap, convenient and simple.

Road trips are on us.

If you have ANY problems charging at home or work, feel free to charge at a convenient supercharger.

Don't be an ass.

Perfect summary. That's all most people here are asking.

 

[dsm363]

Agree with Scaesare too. Tesla could have easily avoided putting Superchargers anywhere near medium or big population centers and left Supercharger 'abuse' up to only the most dedicated cheap people or people who happened to live in the small towns the Superchargers were in.

So Tesla adds charging in big cities to help apartment and condo dwellers out, they call them Superchargers which means they fall under Tesla's free anytime promise and people complain?

 

[scaesare]

Perfect summary. That's all most people here are asking.

Agreed. Nicely put... looks like callmesam and I were writing at the same time, with similar thoughts. His was much more succinct, however. :wink:

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I've noticed a lot of the replies in this thread seem to assume that the Superchargers in big population centers are almost only used by locals. Even if they are only intended for long distance travel, big cities need Superchargers to allow visitors to charge as they are passing through or visiting for the day.

 

[scaesare]

I've noticed a lot of the replies in this thread seem to assume that the Superchargers in big population centers are almost only used by locals. Even if they are only intended for long distance travel, big cities need Superchargers to allow visitors to charge as they are passing through or visiting for the day.

Agreed... quick turn-around in the city would certainly seem to be within the realm of circumstances where u can't reasonably provide for your own charging needs, and thus you aren't trying to dodge paying for your own typical charging needs.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Why not? If the website is so very clear and explicit to what is being offered is only "long distance travel."

If tesla had truly wanted to offer only long distance travel they needed only to insert a single word: "the supercharger network is ONLY for long distance travel."

Easy.

There is no dispute that superchargers should not only be for long distance. For example city superchargers are meant for those without home charging options (a new policy introduced in late 2014/2015 to address certain markets) and also no one will be opposed to people occasionally happening to stop by at a local supercharger and charging. The issue is if Tesla discouraging (or eventually prohibiting) those that do all charging at superchargers, when they have other options, is a clarification of their message or if it is a change in their message. And also if what those people are doing is "wrong".

If we can agree that the message has been consistent that the supercharger network is *primarily* for long distance travel, we can get some agreement on this. This will be consistent with the idea that a large majority of a typical owner's supercharger usage be for long distance travel, and allow for some occasional local usage as convenience. And I don't think the city superchargers really kills that message because they tacked that on later as an explicit exception. Doing all your daily charging when you have a home charger is still not "right" in these situations.

I also think Tesla's message on a corporate level was "free, unlimited". It definitely was not long-distance only in any case, considering e.g. London and Schipol examples.

Again, the "city superchargers" were a really recent policy that was added in late 2014/early 2015 and they added a line to the supercharger page that says city superchargers were for people that had difficulty home charging. That does not mean they intend to also cover the daily charging of people with easy access to home charging.