Supercharging - Elon's statement that Daily Supercharging Users are Receiving Notes

[AnxietyRanger]

I avoid his articles now, too.

Lots of people confuse 'being critical' with 'critical thinking'. He takes shots, says someone has to 'be critical' as if that means only he is applying critical thinking skills.

It's a common error.

I would say we are now risking attributing motivations to the guy that may not be there. I think it may also be a personal style/flare kind of things. I - perhaps as a similar kind of spirit - haven't found his articles offensive. Quite the contrary, I find him passionate about Tesla and an asset to the community. His views are affecting positive change, in my opinion, much more so than some fan blog chanting praise.

 

[brianman]

My opinion is, that is fine as an optimistic notion, but in practice identifying with, affiliation with, or fandom of a company or a brand definitely affects opinion and discussion.

I would say we are now risking attributing motivations to the guy that may not be there.

I agree much more with the second AR here. Recommendation: Try to wear that hat more often, and consistently. It's definitely more polite, productive, and effective -- especially on a forum such as TMC.

Evaluate posts by the content, sanity, and logic of the post not on your perception of the author's character, history, affiliations, etc.

As an example, I might observe "ah, a poster from EU" and think "he/she might have some interesting data to contribute regarding driving styles and conditions in that area" -- and comment accordingly. It's something else to assume he/she has significant geographic or cultural differences or biases that make him/her pointless to attempt an intelligent conversation with.

 

[dsm363]

My opinion is, that is fine as an optimistic notion, but in practice identifying with, affiliation with, or fandom of a company or a brand definitely affects opinion and discussion.

Now, that of course does not mean most or perhaps even any posters in this thread are doing that. But I find it more likely than the presented notion that someone buys a Model S just to be able to criticize it. No?

Have you read David Nolan's articles?

 

[dsm363]

I would say we are now risking attributing motivations to the guy that may not be there. I think it may also be a personal style/flare kind of things. I - perhaps as a similar kind of spirit - haven't found his articles offensive. Quite the contrary, I find him passionate about Tesla and an asset to the community. His views are affecting positive change, in my opinion, much more so than some fan blog chanting praise.

That puts everything in perspective then.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I agree much more with the second AR here. Recommendation: Try to wear that hat more often, and consistently. It's definitely more polite, productive, and effective -- especially on a forum such as TMC.

Evaluate posts by the content, sanity, and logic of the post not on your perception of the author's character, history, affiliations, etc.

I try to. I can't always, because at times my genuine interpretation is that strong identification with Tesla the company is clouding some discussions. Now, that doesn't mean I couldn't be mistaken at times. I just don't get that feeling (in reverse) with Nolan. And I do form my opinions based on what people write over time, not based on any superficial detail like location.

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That puts everything in perspective then.

Feel free to give an example that you'd like my opinion on. If he has posted something out there, I'll be happy to change my mind.

 

[dsm363]

He made a sky is falling article about the Supercharger network falling fall short of their goal because they were three stations short of their projection from a map done a year before I think. He went on and on about the pedal placement like it was a problem. He writes this unintelligent article about how he is going to only charge at the Supercharger just because he can. Same argument you've been making.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

He made a sky is falling article about the Supercharger network falling fall short of their goal because they were three stations short of their projection from a map done a year before I think. He went on and on about the pedal placement like it was a problem. He writes this unintelligent article about how he is going to only charge at the Supercharger just because he can. Same argument you've been making.

If anyone can provide a link to his outrageous articles, I'll gladly read and provide an opinion. For example I enjoyed his 70D review and I think the latest Supercharger story was just fine to me.

2015 Tesla Model S 70D: First Drive Of New Electric Car Base Model

 

[scaesare]

As for those who suggest holding an opinion like this, and having a theoretical discussion on the merits, is somehow being responsible for the destruction of the Supercharger system. Hyperbole much?

Funny... I don't recall anyone using the phrase "destruction of the Supercharger system".

To which post do you refer?

 

[Owner]

I just think they are not useful and are "over the top". What's the big deal about the local supercharger taking a while to build? ( The language is just filled with these kind of dramatic statements over really nothing. Not the kind of person I'd want to be friends with in real life or read on the internet.

For four agonizing months, nothing happened.

Mildly annoyed, I checked back the following week. Annoyance turned to shock

just so I can thumb my nose at the electric company?

If anyone can provide a link to his outrageous articlesl

 

[Tupelo]

This may have already been reported here (apologies if so) but today I received my email about the opening of the San Diego SC, which said "We are excited to announce that the San Diego Supercharger Station is now open. New Supercharger Stations open every week, enabling more options for free long-distance travel, for life." Depending upon which side of the debate one sits, you can either emphasize, or choose to ignore, the words "long-distance" in that statement, as you please. :biggrin:

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Funny... I don't recall anyone using the phrase "destruction of the Supercharger system".

To which post do you refer?

Obviously a figure of speech, but I referred to "we all lose".

For those who want to parse Tesla's written guidance on the Superchargers to determine if there was a strict prohibition against daily Supercharging use so you can avoid paying for your own electricity: There wasn't. You win.

However, for those who are expecting Tesla to act strictly like traditional companies, they don't. They recognized that urban-dwelling folks had limited options, and so ADDED additional infrastructure to accommodate such folks. Also at no cost. I hope folks realize such and thank Tesla. That additional provision, however, in no way invalidates the purpose of the existing Supercharger infrastructure.

Subsequently we've recently heard Elon provide more detail regarding their intent. You may have not understood that intent previously... but you are in the vast minority.

So what now? What are you still arguing about? Are you intent on your winning standpoint and thus going to use the system (again, urban dwellers and the occasional top-off for rapid turnaround, etc... isn't at issue) just to avoid paying at home anyway?

If so, you may feel you win, but we all lose.

It's not what Tesla wants. It's not what 90% of folks feel is correct. It doesn't scale well. It might well impact how freely Tesla makes services available in the future. It may very well push them to HAVE to start acting like the other companies we often despise.

But perhaps most important: Tesla did this to make EV's easy for the world to use, and thus change the mind of billions and remove barriers to EV adoption.

Thus I don't think the posts wrangling over the few dollars of charging per session incurred to Tesla matter one wit. I suspect Elon doesn't want an unmanageable mess of clogged superchargers and therefore fail to remove one of the last and most significant barriers to long distance travel. That's why you see that phrase plastered all over the Supercharging pages.

So, if you decide to press your viewpoint and save a few bucks a month, congratulations: you are are ultimately working against the much larger issue Elon is trying to solve.

 

[Tedkidd]

For those who want to parse Tesla's written guidance on the Superchargers to determine if there was a strict prohibition against daily Supercharging use so you can avoid paying for your own electricity: There wasn't. You win.

However, for those who are expecting Tesla to act strictly like traditional companies, they don't. They recognized that urban-dwelling folks had limited options, and so ADDED additional infrastructure to accommodate such folks. Also at no cost. I hope folks realize such and thank Tesla. That additional provision, however, in no way invalidates the purpose of the existing Supercharger infrastructure.

Subsequently we've recently heard Elon provide more detail regarding their intent. You may have not understood that intent previously... but you are in the vast minority.

So what now? What are you still arguing about? Are you intent on your winning standpoint and thus going to use the system (again, urban dwellers and the occasional top-off for rapid turnaround, etc... isn't at issue) just to avoid paying at home anyway?

If so, you may feel you win, but we all lose.

It's not what Tesla wants. It's not what 90% of folks feel is correct. It doesn't scale well. It might well impact how freely Tesla makes services available in the future. It may very well push them to HAVE to start acting like the other companies we often despise.

But perhaps most important: Tesla did this to make EV's easy for the world to use, and thus change the mind of billions and remove barriers to EV adoption.

Thus I don't think the posts wrangling over the few dollars of charging per session incurred to Tesla matter one wit. I suspect Elon doesn't want an unmanageable mess of clogged superchargers and therefore fail to remove one of the last and most significant barriers to long distance travel. That's why you see that phrase plastered all over the Supercharging pages.

So, if you decide to press your viewpoint and save a few bucks a month, congratulations: you are are ultimately working against the much larger issue Elon is trying to solve.

This really makes me angry. Why can't I write like that!?

best statement yet summarizing state of affairs.

Charge at home, if possible. It's cheap, convenient and simple.

Road trips are on us.

If you have ANY problems charging at home or work, feel free to charge at a convenient supercharger.

Don't be an ass.

Lol - yup!

Lots of people confuse 'being critical' with 'critical thinking'.

Bonnie's been on fire lately.

I do form my opinions based on what people write over time, not based on any superficial detail ...

Fun watching this discussion congeal from a random point map into an ever clearer image that seems to pay increasing hommage to critical thinking and long term mutual benefit in a world where so often quick conclusions and short term self-interest win the day.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

This may have already been reported here (apologies if so) but today I received my email about the opening of the San Diego SC, which said "We are excited to announce that the San Diego Supercharger Station is now open. New Supercharger Stations open every week, enabling more options for free long-distance travel, for life." Depending upon which side of the debate one sits, you can either emphasize, or choose to ignore, the words "long-distance" in that statement, as you please. :biggrin:

I don't think anyone is ignoring the fact that Tesla is now emphasizing free long-distance travel.

The disagreement is: Did the start just recently, or did they always do it (enough).

I expect to see Tesla underlining long-distance travel quite a bit as part of the new, changed marketing message.

I wonder how it fits with London and Schipol.

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I do form my opinions based on what people write over time, not based on any superficial detail ...

Fun watching this discussion congeal from a random point map into an ever clearer image that seems to pay increasing hommage to critical thinking and long term mutual benefit in a world where so often quick conclusions and short term self-interest win the day.

You are accusing a person (aka me) who lives far, far, far away from any Superchargers of short-term self-interest in this debate? Funny. I'm a net payer for Tesla's Supercharger system.

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I just think they are not useful and are "over the top". What's the big deal about the local supercharger taking a while to build? ( The language is just filled with these kind of dramatic statements over really nothing. Not the kind of person I'd want to be friends with in real life or read on the internet.

For four agonizing months, nothing happened.

Mildly annoyed, I checked back the following week. Annoyance turned to shock

just so I can thumb my nose at the electric company?

I guess I just don't see that text the way you do. It didn't annoy me.

 

[scaesare]

Obviously a figure of speech, but I referred to "we all lose".

So let me get this straight, you equated the premise of my post with "the destruction of the supercharging system", and then you have the gall to ask:

Hyperbole much?

 

[Tedkidd]

You are accusing a person (aka me) who lives far, far, far away from any Superchargers of short-term self-interest in this debate? Funny. I'm a net payer for Tesla's Supercharger system.

Wow, that's quite a leap!

Nope, accusing you of thinking slowly instead of fast, which I think requires self discipline. That you failed to do so in this instance is simply a lapse.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Wow, that's quite a leap!

Nope, accusing you of thinking slowly instead of fast, which I think requires self discipline. That you failed to do so in this instance is simply a lapse.

What is slow thinking? I'm not familiar with the concept.

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So let me get this straight, you equated the premise of my post with "the destruction of the supercharging system"and then you have the gall to ask:

I think the idea follows, yes. Perhaps not the best choice of words on my part, but see here why it felt quite dramatic in my view:

So what now? What are you still arguing about? Are you intent on your winning standpoint and thus going to use the system (again, urban dwellers and the occasional top-off for rapid turnaround, etc... isn't at issue) just to avoid paying at home anyway?

If so, you may feel you win, but we all lose.

...

"It may very well push them to HAVE to start acting like the other companies we often despise."

"So, if you decide to press your viewpoint and save a few bucks a month, congratulations: you are are ultimately working against the much larger issue Elon is trying to solve."

Apparently I am working against "change the mind of billions and remove barriers to EV adoption" or somesuch... hyperbole.

 

[Tedkidd]

thinking fast and slow - Google Search

Though your position that Supercharger abuse will lead to the destruction of that system seems a reach. It may lead to it being less open and simple, which will be disappointing - I think this is the "we all lose" scaesare refers to.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

thinking fast and slow - Google Search

I don't get the concept of what you were saying above, so if you wish, feel free to rephrase.

 

[Tupelo]

I don't think anyone is ignoring the fact that Tesla is now emphasizing free long-distance travel.

The disagreement is: Did the start just recently, or did they always do it (enough).

I expect to see Tesla underlining long-distance travel quite a bit as part of the new, changed marketing message.

Well... here's one in my email inbox from March 21, 2014, announcing Buckeye, Ariz. "The Buckeye Supercharger adds an additional charging option for our owners who travel between Southern California and the Phoenix area. It is part of a series of Superchargers that will more densely cover travel on Interstate 10 from Santa Monica through Tucson for free, for life." Buckeye is quite close to West Phoenix and the areas of Glendale, Goodyear and Peoria, so I suppose Tesla could have invited those who live in that metropolitan area to charge up there for local driving as well, but for whatever reason, in spring 2014, they were describing it only as facilitating travel from LA through Tucson, via Phoenix, a distance of several hundred miles. If they changed the message, it wasn't recently, IMO.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Well... here's one in my email inbox from March 21, 2014, announcing Buckeye, Ariz. "The Buckeye Supercharger adds an additional charging option for our owners who travel between Southern California and the Phoenix area. It is part of a series of Superchargers that will more densely cover travel on Interstate 10 from Santa Monica through Tucson for free, for life." Buckeye is quite close to West Phoenix and the areas of Glendale, Goodyear and Peoria, so I suppose Tesla could have invited those who live in that metropolitan area to charge up there for local driving as well, but for whatever reason, in spring 2014, they were describing it only as facilitating travel from LA through Tucson, via Phoenix, a distance of several hundred miles. If they changed the message, it wasn't recently, IMO.

That is not the same message, though. I think most would at least agree Tesla has greatly clarified (some might say changed) the message with the long-distance wording added to more places.

We have plentiful examples of TMC where this qualification was not presented when promoting this feature, e.g. by sales reps.