Supercharging Nightmare Begins

[StealthP3D]

I don’t have any other means to charge the MX at the moment other than the supercharging station.

Almost every 2nd car I see is a Model 3 waiting to charge. Obviously this has impacted the supercharging stations.

So what you're saying is you're a victim of the situation caused by people who have no other means to charge their Tesla's other than at Superchargers? Maybe you could become active in a local EV advocacy group that supports the development of EV charging infrastructure?

 

[bayx]

So what you're saying is you're a victim of the situation caused by people who have no other means to charge their Tesla's other than at Superchargers? Maybe you could become active in a local EV advocacy group that supports the development of EV charging infrastructure?

Nope, made no claim in my post other than stating how the Tesla supercharging station wait times increased (within weeks, coinciding with increased M3 production). Interesting to see how this thread took off because different people interpreted the post based on their own perception of things. As they say, there is no substitute for personal conversations!

 

[StealthP3D]

Nope, made no claim in my post other than stating how the Tesla supercharging station wait times increased (within weeks, coinciding with increased M3 production). Interesting to see how this thread took off because different people interpreted the post based on their own perception of things. As they say, there is no substitute for personal conversations!

Do you admit that people who ALWAYS charge at Superchargers are the biggest contributors to congestion?

 

[Big Earl]

Heck, tomorrow I'm headed to Rocky Mount NC and I'm having to tweak the numbers to get the durn thing to tell me I can go 180 miles without stopping to charge. The irony is I'm staying in a hotel that has the Rocky Mount Supercharger in the parking lot, but I might need to stop before I get there to make sure a 300 mile battery can get me 180 miles.

Does your X have 22" wheels or 20"?

 

[gnuarm]

Do you admit that people who ALWAYS charge at Superchargers are the biggest contributors to congestion?

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

 

[gnuarm]

Does your X have 22" wheels or 20"?

I expect 20". I didn't ask for anything special.

 

[HostileHarry]

So I used my first local SuperCharger this week. My X was in for service and I was driving a Model S P85+ loaner (totally sold on the Performance after the loaner, except I'm unable to drive any bit conservatively) and I have quite a few meetings that was going to require a 15 minute charge for round trip. I stopped at the Rolling Meadows SC and was surprised by the number of Tesla's there charging. I would say it was mostly Model S with a few Model 3's supercharging. I grabbed the last spot next to a Model 3 and the driver and I started to chat.

He was asking about why his SC charing speed was so slow. He's taken the car into Tesla, many calls, etc. Supercharging is his only way to charge as he lives in an apartment without Level2, etc. He stated that he spends 3-4 hours per week charging as the Rolling Meadows SC and that he's not going to be able to keep up with it as it's impacting his life. I began asking him how long he drives before getting to the SC, what is the current SoC, etc. and I explained to him that the car sitting outside in Chicago-land during the winter, driving over to SC after 15/20 minute drive is not going to lead to the fast SC results. I was pulling 118kwh or so while we were talking and he said he's pulled in with about 10% SoC remaining after driving for an hour. I explained that 1 hour on a cold soaked battery likely still won't cut it to get the 120kwh speed.

I ended up getting a text from him yesterday giving me an update. He decided to try my advice and drove around for about 2 hours yesterday and pulled into the SC with 10% remaining and he started to pull in the 100's kwh. He's not sure how he is going to move forward, but he at least now understands the importance of battery warming in the winter

 

[gnuarm]

I ended up getting a text from him yesterday giving me an update. He decided to try my advice and drove around for about 2 hours yesterday and pulled into the SC with 10% remaining and he started to pull in the 100's kwh. He's not sure how he is going to move forward, but he at least now understands the importance of battery warming in the winter

I guess this explains why my charges in Chattanooga were so slow. I only drove the car enough to get rid of the regen limitation. I suppose the batter was above the point of being harmed by regen, but not warm enough to take a full charge rate.

Wouldn't it make sense for the car to heat the battery before starting a charging session? If we can precondition the battery before driving, why not before charging? I can't imaging 100 kW isn't enough power to do that, lol. Is it that it takes so long to heat the battery even *with* the heater so they don't want you clogging the chargers? The heater is only 6 kW.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

Perhaps you can explain to me how the SoC affects charging rate. I've never seen anything on most chargers other than full 100+ kW. It doesn't drop off significantly until I reach perhaps 75%. Even then it remains around 100 kW until the last 15%. So charging to 90% is always pretty fast.

Is the rate lower because you are starting at 50% while charging from 10-20% the rate doesn't drop off at 50%?

I knew I remembered that this type of information was out there. Here’s another thread with a really good post with data on hundreds of charging events.
Some California Superchargers not providing maximum charging rates

 

[SMAlset]

Not everyone charging at a Supercharger likely needs to do a full charge to get where they are going and that includes owners who have home charging. If the location is full and cars are waiting, charge for what you need to get home or wherever and top off at home. We all know that Elon intended ideally for home charging with the Superchargers for road tripping.

For those saying that people who can't have "at home charging" (due to not owning the property or having difficulty running electricity to an area), Elon has encouraged these people to buy an EV and charge at the Superchargers. Hopefully they take advantage of other charging systems along the way if they can during the day to cut down on the time needed at the Supercharger to minimize wait time (like plugging in at work if that's an option); but owners here saying if Superchargers are their only way to have an EV that they shouldn't buy the car, is just wrong. That is not what Elon envisioned or espouses. Things will improve down the road as more people end up with home solutions (changes in law and building codes) and Tesla has been committed to increasing access to Superchargers for the past two years and more so in 2019.

I don't know about Supercharging up in the SF area but we were up the peninsula yesterday and needed a charge to get home and stopped at the East Palo Alto location and that was maybe around 1pm and it was only half full. Only 3 Model 3s that I saw BTW. On occasion we will stop at the Gilroy Supercharger and it's use fluctuates. I think all the other new chargers in the bay area have helped reduce it's overcrowing. Many times I drive past and only see a few cars charging. Sunnyvale with Target being right there for shopping is usually on the half to nearly full and on occasion full and waiting side.

I do think that when the new owners were given free Supercharging for 6 months with their purchase, the inclination to take advantage of it is partly the reason the charging locations are busy and there will be a drop off after that.

Please don't blame new owners with no charging ability in their apartments and condos for using the Superchargers. They could have bought a gas or diesel vehicle otherwise.

 

[SMAlset]

For people who do have a home situation that can have charging access but they haven't installed it, increased wait times at the Superchargers may get them to think about adding the convenience at their homes. Believe this is what Elon probably would also like to see happen. Honestly once you have that convenience at home, it's so nice to have your car charged up at home and just get in it and leave and not think about stopping somewhere else or spending any time waiting. It really comes down to feeling like you have a perpetually charged car with no real thought about your battery each day.

If you think about it Elon/Tesla have made "filling up" a car very cost efficient compared to gas or diesel. They offer owners incentives through referrals to even get a free HPWC and spur on EV ownership. Owners are provided with a MCU that can use household current or a 240v line so you don't even need the HPWC. They really do try to make home charging as easy and cost efficient as possible.

 

[VValleyEV]

I’d say this topic is actually why it’s important for people to back initiatives that make it easier (or even possible) to have apartment buildings, condos, or houses governed by associations retrofitted to meet growing demand. We should also be focused on requiring new structures to be more compatible with this burgeoning technology.

I’ve only become more thanks to another member here who has shared that a few local governments (including my local one recently) are beginning to push for legislation on both these subjects.

I think it’s regressive to blame the owner for his choice. Seems to me folks here want more EVs on the road, not less. These are necessary growing pains. The solution is not to judge owners, it’s to pressure the powers-that be, whether it’s local government or constructively “tweeting Elon” about superchargers.

Well said.
I would emphasize that home charging solutions that give you 100% overnight are not only the right answer, relegating the superchargers for real road trips only, but make it so much more fun for the EV owner. Unless I am on a road trip I never use a supercharger, so now my EV truly frees me from fueling stops.

So yes, we need to enthusiastically support initiatives to add charging stations to condos and apartments in urban areas, instead of criticizing folks who buy EVs in the Bay Area.

 

[MaryAnning3]

It would help if Tesla would end its free supercharging offers. That would encourage locals to arrange their own charging whenever possible. Making something that is a limited resource free (parking, supercharging...) can tend to cause problems such as we are experiencing here. Higher rates for locals could also be helpful?

 

[Silicon Desert]

Buying an EV that you cannot charge at home, work, or other location where you regularly park is something to think long and hard about.

Yes, and that caught my attention. I am not trying to be a smart ass with this question, but why buy an EV with depending only on supercharging? I'm really just curious. The first thing I did even before the car was delivered was to put in a home charger. So I am just guess that you (OP) really wanted one of these nice cars, but live in an apartment of somewhere that you can't install a home charger?

And yup, I agree that some of the SCs are becoming a nightmare. Before M3s hit the road, I noticed the SC in Reno was always fairly clear as I drive by there. Now it is loaded most every day and half of those are M3s.

 

[gene]

If you are a California renter. This California law may be helpful to you. At first read, it seems complicated but really, it is rather simple. Also, the required $1 million general liability insurance is inexpensive, and is a good thing to have anyway and allows you to decrease your auto insurance levels to the minimum.

Electric Vehicle Charging Stations for California Landlords
California law provides a framework for California tenants to request permission from their landlords to install electric vehicle charging stations. AB 2565 added new Civil Code §§1947.6 (residential tenancies) and 1952.7 (commercial tenancies). A summary of the law is below. The full text of these code sections is included at the end of this article.

Residential
For residential leases signed, renewed or extended on or after July 1, 2015, landlords are required to approve a tenant’s written request to install an electric vehicle charging station at the tenant’s parking space if the tenant enters into a written agreement which includes requirements regarding the installation, use, maintenance and removal of the charging station, requires the tenant pay for all modifications, and requires the tenant to maintain a $1,000,000 general liability insurance policy. The charging station and modifications must comply with all applicable laws and covenants, conditions and restrictions. The tenant is required to pay the cost associated with the electric usage of the charging station. The landlord is not required to provide the tenant with an additional parking space in order to comply with this law. This law does not apply: (1) when parking is not included as part of the rental contract; (2) to properties with fewer than five parking spaces; (3) to properties subject to rent control; (4) when 10% or more of existing spaces already have electric vehicle charging stations.

HOA
HOAs may not prohibit or unreasonably restrict the installation or use of electric vehicle charging stations in a designated parking space.

 

[juliusa]

You are right that BEVs are only for the rare breed for the most part and that is the issue.

Not an issue. There are hundreds of different models sold in the US for a reason.

Few people are going to pay top dollar for a car they find less convenient than the car they have now.

Correct - so apparently it is not less convenient for most of the millions that have bought them. Technology is improving every year and expanding the universe of car buyers for whom it is not less convenient.

I was just reading about someone in CA who is having a hard time getting any sort of electricity to charge her Tesla.

Bummer. Wonder how she charges her cell phone.

Read a little in the financial pages.

I stay away from them. If the people writing in the financial pages had any clue about what they were writing about, they would be investing or trading and not writing.

You guys are talking past one another.

We agree on the facts, disagree on the analysis. Lines at superchargers are not an issue at all. I've seen people whining about this for 4 years - yet Tesla continues to sell cars, issued stock, introduced the M3, etc. It is not a big deal so long as they keep doing what they have been doing.

Do you admit that people who ALWAYS charge at Superchargers are the biggest contributors to congestion?

Not necessarily. People that always charge at superchargers value their time, and will logically choose non-congested times to charge when they can get the full 120kw to themselves. People traveling at peak times are captive - they have little choice of when to charge, and are often charging at peak times.

For people who do have a home situation that can have charging access but they haven't installed it, increased wait times at the Superchargers may get them to think about adding the convenience at their homes.

A BEV is a vastly different proposition if you charge at home or work compared to at a supercharger or other charger while you wait. But people have been making trade offs on cars for the past 100 years. A F150 and Prius have different pros/cons - which is why some people buy the F150 and some buy the Prius. BEV is just another choice.

 

[StealthP3D]

A lot of Model 3's came with free Supercharging for 6 months. Some people are a sucker for a deal so they will line up to take advantage of that 6-month perk. One of our Model 3's has Free Supercharging for life and I've plugged into a SC'er three times since I took delivery back in September. Electricity is too cheap to worry about it. What would cost me $6.00 at the Supercharger only costs $3.00 at home. That's not worth my time to sit there unless I'm out of range of my home.

 

[Shannon S]

I have seen an astounding increase in supercharging station use within the past 3 months. Went from no waiting for a charging station almost any time of the day to waiting for a station every time (sometimes at least for 30mins!).

I don’t have any other means to charge the MX at the moment other than the supercharging station.

Almost every 2nd car I see is a Model 3 waiting to charge. Obviously this has impacted the supercharging stations.

This is in the SF Bay Area.

Not sure why this seems like a surprise to anyone who owns a Tesla. We all see the news and we know that production is increasing. Tesla is also promising to increase the number of supercharging stations. Question is, are they and if so, are they doing it fast enough? We put 2,000 miles a month on our Tesla so we are dependent on having access to stations. The Madonna Inn on Highway 101 in CA posted a sign limiting charging to 40 minutes but so far we have never had to wait. The Supercharger at Kettleman rarely has more than 6 vehicles when we stop there and it can accommodate about 30 I believe. Tesla just needs to address it's impacted Superchargers and either add more chargers or add more Supercharging stations. It's not going to get any easier.

 

[doowopqueen]

Hope the powers-that-be are reading this blog. This is a good thing and shows the transfer to electric vehicles, notably Teslae. Hoping that Superchargers will proliferate as gas stations have and that the Blnks and other networks will import the Supercharge technology.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

Even if you only have access to 120v 15A, please use that as much as possible, rather than driving over to a SC.