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Switched from perf 21's to Tesla's 19" winter package

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by cinergi, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    That is unfortunately correct.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Most all-seasons are not severe-service all-seasons. They are "Texas all-seasons". Severe service all-seasons have a severe-service emblem on them. (Looks like mountains with a snow flake as shown by the graphic) Six years ago the only severe-service all-seasons available were Yokohama Y370 and Nokian WR--and Yokohama only sold them in Canada because all the Texans complained :)
     
  2. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

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    Email sent to NorthAmerica-at-nokiantyres-dot-com; I'll report back any response I receive.
     
  3. William13

    William13 Member

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    I agree with jerry33 that the Nokian WRG2 are the best all season tire available. They are actually winter tires that can be used in the summer. They wear faster and are thus more expensive to own, but you will avoid accidents.
     
  4. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

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    #24 JakeP, Nov 30, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
    I received a phone call back from Nokian today, from a very knowledgeable guy in Vermont. He said they don't currently make that size, and there needs to be a certain threshold in demand before they will make another mold. But he did think the relationship between Tesla and Nokian held some promise toward ultimately making that size, but he certainly had not heard any announcements that they would be making that size.

    He also indicated that the Hakkapeliita R, the non-studded winter tire, is one of the lowest rolling resistance tires they make. He said several owners have noticed better MPG than summer tires, etc. And the WR G2's are also a very low rolling resistance tire...both of these are of course perfectly suited for pairing with Model S, but right now only the Hakka R's are available in 245/45R19.

    I wish they would get with Tesla and offer the WR G2 as the stock tire in 245/45R19.
     
  5. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Thanks for doing that. I'll call as well. Do you mean the Hakkapeliitta 7's are the only tire that works in 19" size? The Nokian Rs don't seem to come in the correct size yet.
     
  6. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

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    Sorry yes, I think I conflated the two. The R's have the lowest rolling resistance, and the 7's are the ones that are available as a studded option from the Tesla Shop.
     
  7. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    No problem. Glad people are contacting them. I can use the 21" wheels all year but would like better options if I move to a cold climate someday.

    If anyone else is interested, can contact them here
    Nokian Tires-Contact Us
     
  8. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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  9. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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  10. mark

    mark Member

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    #30 mark, Nov 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2012
    Being a tire ignorant Texan, my only concern is wrecking my car the one or two days a year that we get some sleet. Do you think the all season 19's that come standard are that much better than the 21"? There's no way I'm buying winter tires for those 1-2 days, but can I drive carefully in the standard tires?
    I appreciate your thoughts...
     
  11. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    In a word, "yes". The 19" all-season tires' tread compound will not turn to wood on an ice day the way the 21" tires' will. Also the taller sidewall will allow the contact patch to conform better to the road surface. If I had 21" tires on my Model S, I'd leave it at home on ice days (You could put chains on and be okay, but yuck.) The stability control should keep you out of trouble if you have all-season tires and aren't trying to push the limits. I've driven on ice days over the past several years and with vehicle stability control you can do amazing things. However, having used both WR-g2 and eNTYRE, there is no question that the WR-g2 is the far better ice day tire. I could get the car sideways with the eNTYRE and the stability control would snap it right back (don't try this at home). I couldn't get the car sideways with the WR-g2. But I did far better than all the all-wheel drive vehicles that I saw in the ditches. Most all-seasons I've driven on during ice days in DFW, such as Michelin MXV4 Plus or the OE Goodyear Integra, are similar or have even less traction than the eNTYRE.

    And yes, I wouldn't purchase a set of winter tires and wheels for DFW use either. I often drive north in the winter for vacation so I tend to purchase tires that are more winter-oriented than the tires most folks purchase.
     
  12. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Some perspective... I have been running Michelin Pilot Super Sports on my Infiniti. Due to extreme workload I didn't have time to switch them, and then snow hit. They were SCARY!!! I was driving 40 kph (25 mph) on a side street, and lightly pressed the brakes because there was a parked car in front and an oncoming car not leaving me much room. The rear immediately kicked out on me. Uh oh, this is BAD!

    Fortunately I've been doing high performance driving schools and lapping, and my instincts kicked in. I released the brakes, counter-steered, and looked at the tiny slot between the oncoming car and the parked car ("look where you want to go"). Sailed through no problem!

    After the first snow it's impossible to get an appointment for tires, but my neighbour owns a garage and I used up some favour points to get it done (my other tires weren't on rims). Otherwise it was so bad I'd probably have had to rent a car!

    Oddly, I ended up driving my Roadster this week (due to a Sun Country Highway event) and I don't have snow tires for it. The Yokohamas are surprisingly competent on snow. Go figure.
     
  13. Lyon

    Lyon 2012 S P85, 2016 X P90D

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    Just wanted to echo what others have said about the Nokian severe service all-season tires. They're phenomenal. Where we live we get one or two days of snow a year, a few heavy rain storms and 9 months of drip. (Eugene, OR) I've had the WR G2s on our Land Rover LR3 for basically the whole time we've owned the car. Now, this thing will probably drive through snow on racing slicks (before you jump down my throat go look up "hyperbole" and then apply that definition to my last statement ;) ) but these tires are outstanding in everything. Last year we had a freak snow storm late in the year that dropped about 6 inches of really wet snow; trees down all over the place, power outages, the works. We had zero mobility issues with the WR G2s. One other area that they work well on and that isn't really ever talked about is wet leaves. Where we live there are a ton of oak trees and every fall/early winter they dump their leaves on the road. They promptly get ground up and mix with afore-mentioned drip to cause a pretty slippery paste-like substance.

    I've got Nokian Rotiva (also severe service, also all-season, but they're all-terrain and designed for light trucks) on my Suburban. For ski weekends I have Hakkapeliitta 5s mounted on wheels that are both siped and studded.

    All-in-all the only bad things I have to say about Nokians is that they're, on average, more expensive than other, similar, tires and they've got some holes in their size availability. I'm not sold on getting winter tires for the Model S (that's what the Suburban is for) but if I do get a set, I'm leaning heavily towards the Hakkapeliitta Rs.
     
  14. ToddRLockwood

    ToddRLockwood Active Member

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    The president of Nokian lives around the corner from me in Vermont. When my Model S arrives next spring, I'll be working on him!
     
  15. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Awesome! We need the WR G2s and R's supplied through Tesla as an option. Thanks.
     
  16. jcstp

    jcstp Active Member

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    I read many times on this forum the traction-controle on the roadsters was exceptionally efficient!
    Apparently this is typical for electric cars!
    So when in trouble with your ICE-car I guess no problem with Model S!

    Hope some roadster owners can share their experience here?
     
  17. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    There's a thread for that: Winter Performance
     
  18. bosgig

    bosgig Member

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    @cinergi--any range observations on your winter 19's vs. the perf 21's now that you've had them on for a while? Thanks
     
  19. cinergi

    cinergi Active Member

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    Seems to be about the same, actually. Hard to judge but my 55 and 65 MPH consumption is virtually the same (as observed by watching the energy graph, not as measured by doing 30 mile trips and checking the difference in average whpm -- so there's room for something like 5% margin of error I'd say)
     
  20. jhs_7645

    jhs_7645 VIN: #3305

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    By the way Jerry, thank you for your numerous and invaluable contributions to the tire discussions!
     

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