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Tesla 2018 disengagement report

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Apple comments on why they got so many disengagements:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/c...22b921a86f5/CoverLetter.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CVID=

They went from 40k interventions in 24k miles to 28 “important interventions” in 56k miles. A lot of people have been claiming that Tesla was behind because they had a high reported number of interventions. My take away is that it matter a lot how you classify these and numbers should be taken with a grain of salt.
 
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The whole "interventions" reporting thing was a stupid idea to begin with. It's not a good measurement of progress on autonomous vehicles, and it encourages companies to test their products in easy environments.

It also assumes a company is testing L4 and above products. They never thought about companies like Tesla that are building upon an L2 system.

Tesla likely doesn't have any immediate goals of L4 despite what Elon says. They're just extending L2, and adding more to it.

They don't need to report disengagements.

What would they even report? They don't have anything that can be considered even a terrible L4 system. That video they produces years ago was manufactured BS.

They're still working on sign detection for gods sakes. Tesla is only 1 or 2 steps ahead of what's in our cars, and actual FSD is like 20 steps away,

Blader just posted this to get you all up in arms. He knows Tesla doesn't have anything that qualifies as autonomous driving.

What makes Tesla exciting the owners are the testers.
 
Score card:
  • Waymo: one disengagement per 11,017 miles.
  • Apple: one per 2,005 miles.
  • My Model X last night: one per .0625 miles. At 1 MPH. Behind another car.
:(

If Tesla reported disengagements with their current hardware, it would be too painful to read. Let's hope HW3 and the newer models improve things. A lot.
 
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CA is aware Tesla has EAP
CA is aware Tesla does not report disengagements from EAP
CA has not taken action against Tesla
Thus: Tesla is not required to report disengagements in EAP
(Which aligns with the (b)(1) nag exception)

There is no regulation regarding the feature set EAP is allowed to have.
Thus: running the FSD code feature set with EAP nags is still EAP and not required to be reported.

Only when FSD is enabled to run continuously until it is purposely disabled (or self disables due to an internal self-check) will it be a reportable disengagement (to CA if on CA public roads)
 
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Nah because one of the things safety drivers are told during testing is to have their hands on the wheel. so the "i have my hands on the wheel thing" doesn't fly, didn't fly for Uber.

1. There is a huge difference between having your hands on the wheel in case the system screws up (Uber) and having you hands on the wheel to reset a nag timer (Tesla). Would an Uber stop due to lack of test driver input? No. Would a Tesla stop due to lack of driver input in a feature rich EAP mode? Yes.

2. This a valid instruction to any Tesla AP driver since you can also reset the nag by pressing any steering wheel button or the turn stalk. Just because you can let it keep driving with only one finger occasionally touching the wheel does not mean you should.

CA DMV simply doesn't care and letting Tesla get away with not reporting.
Or, the non conspiracy version: the regulations do not require reporting if the system requires regular input from a natural person.
 
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People seem to forget those companies can always do true testing in states that do not require data reporting. And they can easily game the system where they need to report by driving only on those familiar miles over and over again too.
 
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Since Elon calls NavigateOnAutopilot FullSelfDriving (which he did in the last earnings call) then I have had many disengagements and I certainly can't be alone and that report can't be true. LOL LOL LOL (kinda kidding kinda not)

Don't recall that but Tesla has always been saying EAP will take care of freeway on ramp to off ramp driving. NOA is still under that.
 
We know without a doubt they are testing things using the employee program in CA and there's no way you can develop a system without your engineers actually testing it on public roads. Can't believe the CA DMV will let them get away with not reporting disengagements.

California DMV autonomous vehicle testing regulations (for Testing with a Driver)
dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/a6ea01e0-072f-4f93-aa6c-e12b844443cc/DriverlessAV_Adopted_Regulatory_Text.pdf

§ 227.02. Definitions.
Article 3.7 – Testing of Autonomous Vehicles
As used in this article, the following definitions apply:

(a) “Autonomous mode” is the status of vehicle operation where technology that is a combination of hardware and software, remote and/or on-board, performs the dynamic driving task, with or without a natural person actively supervising the autonomous technology’s performance of the dynamic driving task. An autonomous vehicle is operating or driving in autonomous mode when it is operated or driven with the autonomous technology engaged.

(b) “Autonomous test vehicle” is a vehicle that has been equipped with technology that is a combination of both hardware and software that, when engaged, performs the dynamic driving task, but requires a human test driver or a remote operator to continuously supervise the vehicle’s performance of the dynamic driving task.

.... (1) An autonomous test vehicle does not include vehicles equipped with one or more systems that provide driver assistance and/or enhance safety benefits but are not capable of, singularly or in combination, performing the dynamic driving task on a sustained basis without the constant control or active monitoring of a natural person.

.... (2) For the purposes of this article, an “autonomous test vehicle” is equipped with technology that makes it capable of operation that meets the definition of Levels 3, 4, or 5 of the SAE International’s Taxonomy and Definitions for Terms Related to Driving Automation Systems for On-Road Motor Vehicles, standard J3016 (SEP2016), which is hereby incorporated by reference.
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Which means that until Tesla has configured "FSD" as aiming to fulfil >= L3 (i.e. does not need constant monitoring of a natural person) then it is still being tested as a L2 ADAS which requires no special permit, trained drivers or disengagement reporting. So they are not "being let get away with" anything.

Waymo/Uber are different in that they aim to start at L4 so have no L2 system on which to test new features piecemeal.

It is also practically guaranteed at this stage that Tesla's pseudo-FSD will remain at L2 (with nags) for a considerable time (measured in years rather than months) after its official release, which will presumably be in the latter half of this year in conjunction with HW3.

I just don't see any other way for Tesla to deploy this feature without risking being sued to oblivion after it would most probably without driver intervention make a spate of fateful decisions during the first week of use in a large fleet.

If Musk thinks NoAP in its current state = "highway FSD" then what else can one logically conclude but that nags are a more or less permanent feature?
 
Nags are only there until FSD is fleet tested and regulator approved. If anything, Elon is hinting that NoA is FSD code + nags...

Are you suggesting that the current system is good enough for FSD, pending final testing and approval?

Please don't go to sleep in your Tesla, I don't care if you kill yourself but it really messes up my commute.
 
Are you suggesting that the current system is good enough for FSD, pending final testing and approval?

Please don't go to sleep in your Tesla, I don't care if you kill yourself but it really messes up my commute.

No, I was saying nags are not permanent. They allow any software to existing in the driver aide category, thus avoiding reporting requirements and such.

Also not saying current system is good enough for FSD, but it is getting better at certain situations, even on the older gen HW with limited processing.

I'll only sleep in a Tesla while it is in park, or someone else is driving :)
 
Everyone hates California’s self-driving car reports

“Comparing disengagement rates between companies is worse than meaningless: It creates perverse incentives,” said Bryant Walker Smith, associate professor at the University of South Carolina’s School of Law and an expert in self-driving cars. For instance, Smith says, if he were to register in California and never test, he’d look good. “If I wanted to look even better, I’d do a ton of easy freeway miles in California and do my real testing anywhere else,” he added.

Disengagement reports aren’t the best way to build trust and credibility in autonomous vehicles, Smith points out. Instead, releasing testing summaries with detail and context is better. But no company to date has done that.