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Tesla Alternative?
- Thread starter GarethWhyte
- Start date
Sean.
Active Member
They both fall under the 'family' of lithium batteries, but they are different.
LiFePo4 vs. Lithium-Ion Batteries - How to Decide Which One You Need | Eco Tree Lithium
High-capacity batteries are highly sought after nowadays, for a wide range of applications. These batteries serve the purpose of recreational batteries,
ecotreelithium.co.uk
They both fall under the 'family' of lithium batteries, but they are different.
LiFePo4 vs. Lithium-Ion Batteries - How to Decide Which One You Need | Eco Tree Lithium
High-capacity batteries are highly sought after nowadays, for a wide range of applications. These batteries serve the purpose of recreational batteries,
Well, obviously! But the difference is not to do with one being lithium ion and the other not being lithium ion ... they are both types of lithium ion batteries ... despite the misleading article titles ... the article even states "For one thing, both of these batteries rely on the movement of lithium ions to generate current." That is the definition of a lithium ion battery. The difference between the battery types is not to do with them being lithium ion batteries or not.
Sean.
Active Member
The differences are explained in the very article you quoted! The only thing I have issue with is only referring to NCA or NCM battery chemistries as "Lithium ion" when LiFePo4 (also titled LFP) is also "Lithium ion". We could say one type of battery is NCA and one is LFP but it is incorrect to say one is lithium ion and the other LFP ... because they are both lithium ion.
EDIT: Analogy ... petrol engines and diesel engines ... both are internal combustion engines. If someone is describing the two sorts of engine it would be odd to describe one as an internal combustion engine and the other as a diesel engine. Someone is bound to then say ... but they're both internal combustion engines!
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Lol, that article is nuts, it's like it was written by someone who didn't understand that LFP is a type of Lithium Ion, but then was corrected as best as possible by someone else who did know, but couldn't be bothered to just rewrite the whole thing.
A lot like my approach to reviewing colleagues technology designs.
A lot like my approach to reviewing colleagues technology designs.
Sean.
Active Member
OK I see where you're coming from. I've always simply called the original cobalt or manganese-based chemistries "Li-Ion"
As a deliberate distinction from the LFP / LiFePO4 / Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry. No cobalt or manganese and lower power density, and safer than their cobalt/manganese based brethren.
Sean.
Active Member
Just like a 12v battery is actually more than 12v (12.8)at its peak a li-ion cell tends to be 3.7v but about 4.2v when fully charged hence we are either talking 14.8 or 16.8v... its a bit like what is the actuall cc in your ice engine as in a 1.2 won't be a 1200cc kind of thing... This is what im thinking.... just probe it with a multimeter...
Sean.
Active Member
Yeah the LFP type batteries I'm familiar with for bikes (even on my Porker) are "nominal" 12V batteries but the actual working voltage range is up to around 14 volts (no load) when they're fully charged. At 12 volts its basically near enough dead
I see you have changed your post a bit... you actually made google this as to double check lolYeah the LFP type batteries I'm familiar with for bikes (even on my Porker) are "nominal" 12V batteries but the actual working voltage range is up to around 13.6 volts when they're fully charged. At 12 volts its basically near enough dead
A lead acid battery wil not stay at this. 13.8 or even 14v is what they need to charge, once charge they will settle at about 12.8... as for cracking 12v should be fine if the battery is healthy but at 10+ to 11v rounded, you might want to pray a bit lol
3.7 Lion cells will gladly stay 4.2 for days once fully charged but on the case your pictures, the one that says 12v I would say that it will be a fair bit higher than that as I dont know of any combination of cells that would come close but above.
Sean.
Active Member
Yeah actually I’ve got a generic voltage / load table for lithium in my notes…which is quite handy. I looked at the loaded figure first….
I’ve been testing out a sneaky little Victron battery Bluetooth monitor for the 12v batt on the car which I’ll use over summer when we’re away.
Edit: Been using a couple of spare LFP batts to test - the good one was sitting on the shelf with 13.74 v. It’s now sitting on charge at 14.47v. The duff one won’t go above around 13.5/6 volts. I’ve ruined plenty of LFP batteries through vampire drain and over discharge. The voltage looks fine then they fall off a cliff.
As you can see I like editing my posts. A bad habit.
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Thank God someone has brought it back on piste. Thank you@Cnixon
interbear
Active Member
I’ve had a Tesla for 4 years now, Model 3 originally now a Model Y that I picked up summer 2022. Model Y is great in terms of practicality, driving experience and the supercharger network. Overall very happy with it. I am however tempted to switch to a Volvo XC40 Recharge as this years model has more range (rated range very similar to Model Y) and I’ve always liked the small SUV form factor and Volvo build quality. I do hanker after some of the “normal car” comforts too, simple things such as reliable auto wipers, door opening levers not buttons, speedo and nav in front of me or to the side, better headlights etc.
Tempted not committed though. The XC40 is built on an older ICE platform which I assume means some compromises, Volvo will be releasing new EVs in the coming years so I expect a replacement will be not too far off. I’ve already read about their new small SUV EX30 coming next year I think. More generally, the rate of potential Tesla alternatives is accelerating at some pace as all vehicle brands ramp up their EV programs. The sensible choice is, I think, to stick with the Model Y for a couple of years more and then revisit what’s available. I think the choice will be huge then, range will be improved on all and the charging network should hopefully be in a better place. Although to be honest that’s secondary to me as I do most charging at home.
If I was switching this year I’d be looking at Volvo XC40, Skoda Enyaq or whatever BEV SUV the Koreans come up with next, Kia and Hyundai.
Tempted not committed though. The XC40 is built on an older ICE platform which I assume means some compromises, Volvo will be releasing new EVs in the coming years so I expect a replacement will be not too far off. I’ve already read about their new small SUV EX30 coming next year I think. More generally, the rate of potential Tesla alternatives is accelerating at some pace as all vehicle brands ramp up their EV programs. The sensible choice is, I think, to stick with the Model Y for a couple of years more and then revisit what’s available. I think the choice will be huge then, range will be improved on all and the charging network should hopefully be in a better place. Although to be honest that’s secondary to me as I do most charging at home.
If I was switching this year I’d be looking at Volvo XC40, Skoda Enyaq or whatever BEV SUV the Koreans come up with next, Kia and Hyundai.
i think wait 3-4 years and see where the industry/market is, as at the moment its split between Hybrid, Full EV and E Fuel.
I dont think the grid can function on large numbers of EV it will just implode and the grid wont be able to cope and suddenly they will impose more tarriffs on electricity.
Im going to hold onto the model 3 and hoping by then the competion will have caught up or overtaken Tesla, which im pretty confident they will have if you exclude the chargning network, but by that time it will be open to all im sure as Elon will do anything to devalue Telsa it seems.
I dont think the grid can function on large numbers of EV it will just implode and the grid wont be able to cope and suddenly they will impose more tarriffs on electricity.
Im going to hold onto the model 3 and hoping by then the competion will have caught up or overtaken Tesla, which im pretty confident they will have if you exclude the chargning network, but by that time it will be open to all im sure as Elon will do anything to devalue Telsa it seems.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
The grid will have no difficulty with cars charging overnight - if nothing else they will use up the North Sea wind turbines which would otherwise be paid to curtail
Average UK household electricity demand against time of day for weekdays and weekends in mid-July and mid-January
I agree that it is likely that evening electricity will have a higher tariff - I think time-of-use tariffs are highly likely in future
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