I also would be surprised if there is a “breaking change in their architecture” from version 2019.32.12.8 (what was installed on my car by Tesla during a car repair less than 4 weeks ago) to 2019.40.2.3 (eg, an 8 week difference between firmware versions).
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Tesla coercing software updates!?!
- Thread starter ElSupreme
- Start date
Breaking changes can occur between any releases.
Usually in a highly-available cloud installation you need to keep the old code paths running until they are no longer needed, then you remove them from the code repository once nothing requires them. You don't want too many "old" and "old old" paths in your code, especially if development is moving forward rapidly.
There can be many motivations for breaking changes. A very simple example is if they discover that they have been using too weak cipher suites for the encrypted connection to the cloud. They activate support for the new cipher suite at the server, then push an update to make the cars use/support the new encryption. But at some point they want to turn off the support for the old less secure encrypted at the server, to avoid risks of downgrade attacks. That is a breaking change.
Then there's other motivations, example they find better ways to do things that affect car/cloud interfaces. Or they change something required to add new functionality. Or they find a security issue. Etc...
Netflix recently removed streaming support for all older smart TVs. Because they used an older and less secure streaming technology, that was cluttering their servers, and was a pain to maintain.
Ok, I understand your argument. But there are many people that are still on version 8 or 9 software, so my question again is, have other people (such as those still on version 8 or 9 firmware) gotten this message or is only my car that is being targeted. Some people that installed 2019.40.2.3 reported further range loss after that update. Since the firmware version itself offers no new features of benefit to me (I am not interested in the arcade games or sounds they add as opposed to “real” improvements to the media player, etc), I want to know there is a valid reason to update and that my car is not being singled out.
If you got a 85 or 90 battery, I believe some capacity restrictions have been added. Can't remember if it's that exact version. Probably to address some issues with these packs not being as safe as they should be with full charge (they don't want to admit that...).
No reports on 100 batteries being affected afaik.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Could be something as simple as a certificate expiration for the VPN tunnel the car opens back to the mothership.
Makes sense to me. Tesla certainly isn't obligated to maintain backward compatibility with months/years old versions because an owner refuses to update.
Makes sense to me. Tesla certainly isn't obligated to maintain backward compatibility with months/years old versions because an owner refuses to update.
The current software on the car is not months/years old. It was installed on the car by Tesla personnel when the car was in for a repair about 4 weeks ago. Further the version on the car is only 8 weeks older than the version Tesla wants me to install, which they say is the latest version for my car.
My car is a P85 which has had the battery capped by Tesla.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
It certainly is months old, and will be MANY months old in May when they’re telling you it’s going to stop working.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me. They’re giving you months of notice and furthermore giving you a choice - stay where you are without connectivity features or upgrade by this date.
Like I said earlier, this reeks of a certificate expiration to me, based on no particular knowledge or insider info.
Many on this thread have it correct. The behind the scenes reason is because 2019.40.2.X finally gets rid of VPN connectivity for mcu1 and instead connects to Tesla services over websockets. VPN is now gone, and tesla wants the fleet to stop using it.
Mcu2 has been using websockets for some time now.
Your car(s) may or may not be mcu1, but Tesla is advising all current fleet cars that they need to be on 2019.40+ so that nobody is using the old vpn connectivity for tesla services.
Mcu2 has been using websockets for some time now.
Your car(s) may or may not be mcu1, but Tesla is advising all current fleet cars that they need to be on 2019.40+ so that nobody is using the old vpn connectivity for tesla services.
I knew they were going to phase out the VPN eventually, but I thought all the 2019.x builds had support for Hermes (what Tesla calls websockets).
Can someone please explain, in simple non-technical English, the distinctions between Tesla’s VPN connectivity and WebSocket. Thanks.
VPN is the old fashioned way to implement communication between cloud (mothership) and premise (car). VPN is more complicated and less scalable. It's basically a private network tunnel.
Modern solutions use REST API and Websockets. The same technology as your webbrowser and mobile apps uses to communicate with the servers. There exists much more off-the-shelf scalable software for this technology, with the same security level as VPN.
Hence Tesla can use less resources reinventing the wheel, and more resources on actual development. It's understandable they want to remove their VPN servers and all the related legacy code.
Spacep0d
Active Member
I think you make good points here. Considering the reduction of features, Tesla may want to find some happier middle ground here, or provide assurances about what the new software will do. Strongarming people is gonna be problematic for the same reason that no savvy computer person really wanted Windows Vista once they heard a bit about it.
Perhaps, Tesla could allow users to roll back specific features?
Tam
Well-Known Member
The problem with Tesla is: It acts as if it still owns the car and if owners want to stay the same old features with the same old hardware and software, it would make sure owners will get penalized for the disobedience and it would take away "connectivity dependent features".
Drivers are not little children: If a driver wants to stay the same with the obsolete hardware and software and Tesla believes that would jeopardize the car's security, then just have the driver sign off the waiver form.
If the car got stolen because the driver didn't update to stronger fob encryption, then it's the driver's choice for signing off the waiver.
Other companies are starting to require customers to update their products to the latest software within a reasonable period or risk losing support.
If the changes are needed to provide full support for superchargers or plug security holes, it's understandable Tesla would periodically require customers to accept an update.
Rather than being concerned about required software updates, we should be more concerned about the lack of broader beta testing of new software releases, which risks major problems in new releases (which should be caught, if more people were involved in the beta testing).
If the changes are needed to provide full support for superchargers or plug security holes, it's understandable Tesla would periodically require customers to accept an update.
Rather than being concerned about required software updates, we should be more concerned about the lack of broader beta testing of new software releases, which risks major problems in new releases (which should be caught, if more people were involved in the beta testing).
They wrote that you _might_ not receive it.
They will stop testing any Internet services they provide against older software versions, which means that any updates to their server software and configuration might mean the services no longer work with the older software.
As far as they are concerned they aren't removing support, since you will still be able to upgrade your software.
Annoyingly, this means that if we do not want tampering by Tesla, we must now block 80 & 443 incoming... at least from Tesla's CIDR of 209.11.133.96/27. And of course from Ingineer. (108.196.205.111/30)
(# whois -h whois.arin.net 209.11.133.106 | egrep 'CIDR|CustName' | tail -2 )
(# whois -h whois.arin.net 209.11.133.106 | egrep 'CIDR|CustName' | tail -2 )
Decibelle
Member
I wonder what will happen to our old cars in 5-10-15 years? There must be a point in time when the old MCU can no longer run the "latest and greatest" software from the mothership. Will streaming, access to Mobile App, voice commands, etc all stop?
Wondering myself. I'm very certain software updates on MCU1 at some point will grind to a halt. But as long as they got unfulfilled FSD features waiting on MCU1 cars, it will probably last a little longer.
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