Tesla Crash in Indy

[Sully's8]

If indeed the car was going about or less than 60-70Mph and has these disturbing disintegration (including battery modules), it is indeed something to worry about for all Tesla owners. It makes me quite worried - to the point of me reading all the pages and hoping Tesla did investigation on their own and determine why the damage was so catastrophic.

I didn't see this story until after I ordered, and it has admittedly given me pause. Part of the selling point of this car to me was safety.

This was a case of operator negligence causing an explosion. When a Tesla operator is not at fault, and within the speed limit, and someone else (negligently or otherwise) precipitates an accident with said innocent (wrong place, wrong time) Tesla operator and the Tesla explodes, scrutiny will increase. I will obviously be telling the wife and kids that if we are ever in an accident, we evacuate and get the hell away from the car. . .maybe by a football field length.

"It is indeed something to worry about for all Tesla owners." Truer words never said.

In the case of the OP accident however, the driver was killed by crash trauma. Had she been alive and functional after the wreck and had she or bystanders been killed standing outside her vehicle when it went off like a midsized bomb, we'd be having a very, very different discussion.

Not to be alarmist, but yikes.

 

[kort677]

I didn't see this story until after I ordered, and it has admittedly given me pause. Part of the selling point of this car to me was safety.

This was a case of operator negligence causing an explosion. When a Tesla operator is not at fault, and within the speed limit, and someone else (negligently or otherwise) precipitates an accident with said innocent (wrong place, wrong time) Tesla operator and the Tesla explodes, scrutiny will increase. I will obviously be telling the wife and kids that if we are ever in an accident, we evacuate and get the hell away from the car. . .maybe by a football field length.

"It is indeed something to worry about for all Tesla owners." Truer words never said.

In the case of the OP accident however, the driver was killed by crash trauma. Had she been alive and functional after the wreck and had she or bystanders been killed standing outside her vehicle when it went off like a midsized bomb, we'd be having a very, very different discussion.

Not to be alarmist, but yikes.

if you were driving any car and were able to survive a crash like this would you stand next to it or move away from it? the point is that any car could ignite like this after a crash. it is not a unique to tesla issue.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

I didn't see this story until after I ordered, and it has admittedly given me pause. Part of the selling point of this car to me was safety.

This was a case of operator negligence causing an explosion. When a Tesla operator is not at fault, and within the speed limit, and someone else (negligently or otherwise) precipitates an accident with said innocent (wrong place, wrong time) Tesla operator and the Tesla explodes, scrutiny will increase. I will obviously be telling the wife and kids that if we are ever in an accident, we evacuate and get the hell away from the car. . .maybe by a football field length.

"It is indeed something to worry about for all Tesla owners." Truer words never said.

In the case of the OP accident however, the driver was killed by crash trauma. Had she been alive and functional after the wreck and had she or bystanders been killed standing outside her vehicle when it went off like a midsized bomb, we'd be having a very, very different discussion.

Not to be alarmist, but yikes.

Your concerns are misplaced.

The amount of energy released in this accident suggests extremely high speed at impact--this is a one-off accident that NO car would likely survive. Period.

The Laws of Physics are unyielding--they were in arguably one of the safest cars on the road with tremendous crush space and good crash engineering. We don't even know if they were belted in, but we do know they were well beyond intoxicated. Having ridden (once) with an intoxicated driver, all bets are off as judgement is one of the first things lost to alcohol . . .

The lesson here: don't extrapolate too much from this accident.

 

[supratachophobia]

I didn't see this story until after I ordered, and it has admittedly given me pause. Part of the selling point of this car to me was safety.

This was a case of operator negligence causing an explosion. When a Tesla operator is not at fault, and within the speed limit, and someone else (negligently or otherwise) precipitates an accident with said innocent (wrong place, wrong time) Tesla operator and the Tesla explodes, scrutiny will increase. I will obviously be telling the wife and kids that if we are ever in an accident, we evacuate and get the hell away from the car. . .maybe by a football field length.

"It is indeed something to worry about for all Tesla owners." Truer words never said.

In the case of the OP accident however, the driver was killed by crash trauma. Had she been alive and functional after the wreck and had she or bystanders been killed standing outside her vehicle when it went off like a midsized bomb, we'd be having a very, very different discussion.

Not to be alarmist, but yikes.

I'm not afraid to suggest the following scenario: driver passenger not killed in crash, still alive with survivable injuries when car starts to catch fire. Firefighters arrive on scene, see it's a Tesla, and they choose not to intervene because they don't understand Li-Ion fires or did not come properly prepared to work on a Tesla (common misconception is that trucks needs to use foam, when Tesla suggests just a crap ton of water).

Coroner report should also be able to tell based on the smoke levels in the blood if they were alive after the crash. This is how it was in the Paul Walker accident. As gruesome as it is, he was alive but unconscious according to the coroner when the Porsche caught fire....

Edit: Coroner report states blunt force trauma, so the crash apparently did kill them (although only Speckman was pronounced dead on the scene, while McCarthy was taken to the hospital only to be pronounced dead there). However, we also don't know seat-belt status.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

I didn't see this story until after I ordered, and it has admittedly given me pause. Part of the selling point of this car to me was safety.

This was a case of operator negligence causing an explosion. When a Tesla operator is not at fault, and within the speed limit, and someone else (negligently or otherwise) precipitates an accident with said innocent (wrong place, wrong time) Tesla operator and the Tesla explodes, scrutiny will increase. I will obviously be telling the wife and kids that if we are ever in an accident, we evacuate and get the hell away from the car. . .maybe by a football field length.

"It is indeed something to worry about for all Tesla owners." Truer words never said.

In the case of the OP accident however, the driver was killed by crash trauma. Had she been alive and functional after the wreck and had she or bystanders been killed standing outside her vehicle when it went off like a midsized bomb, we'd be having a very, very different discussion.

Not to be alarmist, but yikes.

The only other accident where there was a battery debris field was the one that was stolen and ended up split in two with the rear embeded into a wall stopping 5' in the air: Stolen Tesla Split in Half After Fiery Pursuit Wreck

It took speeds above 100mph and the help of a light pole to accomplish that. As long as you don't aim for a tree or light pole while traveling over 100mph, you should be fine, as other high-speed Tesla accidents had the drivers come out alive (with battery pack intact as well).

 

[Sully's8]

Appreciate the reassurances as I'm not an engineer. . .sounds like this is pretty isolated and speed was higher than highway speed.

Not changing my mind, can't wait for the car, just spooked.

 

[ecarfan]

In the case of the OP accident however, the driver was killed by crash trauma. Had she been alive and functional after the wreck and had she or bystanders been killed standing outside her vehicle when it went off like a midsized bomb, we'd be having a very, very different discussion.

Not to be alarmist, but yikes.

You are being alarmist.

At 1AM a completely inebriated driver (0.21 alcohol level is very high, nearly triple the legal limit for driving) is going way over the speed limit on a city street, swerves to avoid an oncoming car and then hits a very solid object. She was killed. The car was so badly damaged that some of the battery cells started to ignite. If it had been an ICE there would also have been a very serious fire/explosion.

If this inebriated driver had simply observed the speed limit she would quite possibly be alive today. She still could have lost control and hit something but the impact force would have been much less and the car could have protected her.

NHSTA testing, and the data, shows Tesla builds extremely safe cars. But they cannot protect people from acting incredibly recklessly unless you want Tesla to enforce mandatory AP use and speed control. Which I know is not what you want.

 

[phaduman]

I want to find the facts here, at what speed hitting a tree would kill most/al occupants of a Tesla Model S (either by blunt force, or resulting fire)? Take all other facts out of this accident for a second (alcohol, time of day, hormones, performance model...)

Would it surprise/shock some of you at least, if police had reported the car was going at, say 55Mph? Particularly, after the recent IIHS tests reporting head injury to driver, in a narrow frontal offset, at a mere 40mph speed?

As far as my own internet search goes, I haven't seen a Tesla hit a tree yet (frontal offset to a solid structure) - I have seen overturned Tesla, Tesla driving into the back of a 18-wheeler (Germany?), Tesla flying off the highway and flying off a fair distance and landing face-down on a farmland (Germany teenager) etc. But this frontal offset accident is unique. Based on the actual accident in this thread, we don't know the speed (was it 50, 60, or was it 100?) but we do know the result (front breaking apart, parts flying off, explosion/fire, 2 deaths).

Many look to be writing this off as one-off, shouldn't happen to anyone driving within limits. But I disagree. A family of 4 driving at legal limit in a freeway (65Mph) could hit a tree trying to avoid a truck coming from opposite direction. What results should we expect? Replace the Tesla with a XC90, or S90 sedan for that matter, what result should we expect?

 

[RogerHScott]

A family of 4 driving at legal limit in a freeway (65Mph) could hit a tree

I've driven on freeways in San Jose, and many other places, and I don't recall there being trees to hit. Typically roads with 65+ speed limits have barriers or fences, not narrow obstacles. Where are you driving?

 

[Nietschy]

I want to find the facts here, at what speed hitting a tree would kill most/al occupants of a Tesla Model S (either by blunt force, or resulting fire)? Take all other facts out of this accident for a second (alcohol, time of day, hormones, performance model...)

Would it surprise/shock some of you at least, if police had reported the car was going at, say 55Mph? Particularly, after the recent IIHS tests reporting head injury to driver, in a narrow frontal offset, at a mere 40mph speed?

As far as my own internet search goes, I haven't seen a Tesla hit a tree yet (frontal offset to a solid structure) - I have seen overturned Tesla, Tesla driving into the back of a 18-wheeler (Germany?), Tesla flying off the highway and flying off a fair distance and landing face-down on a farmland (Germany teenager) etc. But this frontal offset accident is unique. Based on the actual accident in this thread, we don't know the speed (was it 50, 60, or was it 100?) but we do know the result (front breaking apart, parts flying off, explosion/fire, 2 deaths).

Many look to be writing this off as one-off, shouldn't happen to anyone driving within limits. But I disagree. A family of 4 driving at legal limit in a freeway (65Mph) could hit a tree trying to avoid a truck coming from opposite direction. What results should we expect? Replace the Tesla with a XC90, or S90 sedan for that matter, what result should we expect?

expect death in every car on this planet.
if hit surface can be compressed, it would more likely for someone to survive that.
calculate the g forces if you stop from 65 to 0 in 3 foot.


yes death

 

[Sully's8]

I want to find the facts here, at what speed hitting a tree would kill most/al occupants of a Tesla Model S (either by blunt force, or resulting fire)? Take all other facts out of this accident for a second (alcohol, time of day, hormones, performance model...)

Would it surprise/shock some of you at least, if police had reported the car was going at, say 55Mph? Particularly, after the recent IIHS tests reporting head injury to driver, in a narrow frontal offset, at a mere 40mph speed?

As far as my own internet search goes, I haven't seen a Tesla hit a tree yet (frontal offset to a solid structure) - I have seen overturned Tesla, Tesla driving into the back of a 18-wheeler (Germany?), Tesla flying off the highway and flying off a fair distance and landing face-down on a farmland (Germany teenager) etc. But this frontal offset accident is unique. Based on the actual accident in this thread, we don't know the speed (was it 50, 60, or was it 100?) but we do know the result (front breaking apart, parts flying off, explosion/fire, 2 deaths).

Many look to be writing this off as one-off, shouldn't happen to anyone driving within limits. But I disagree. A family of 4 driving at legal limit in a freeway (65Mph) could hit a tree trying to avoid a truck coming from opposite direction. What results should we expect? Replace the Tesla with a XC90, or S90 sedan for that matter, what result should we expect?

Pretty much thinking along lines of my original post. I guess the good news is that reports of explosions are rare. There's the case of the exceptional circumstances of a 100mph accident in high speed pursuit (link above) and this one. I agree the speed the Tesla was traveling is important. . . I think there was an astute poster that flagged the camera data as a good source to compare distance traveled vs. time which will result in a fairly accurate speed. I noted that the tesla moved out of frame much quicker than the oncoming car so clearly the Tesla was hauling ass and saw him late. In fact, if you look closely it appears the Tesla did not brake until AFTER it passed the oncoming car (note brake lights engage after pass). . . So the top speed prior to braking and the speed as it moved out of frame should be calculable.

Here's a thought. . . .If I understand how regenerative braking in the Tesla works, doesn't that mean that she had the foot on the gas still as she passed the dude? There's your evidence for slow judgment and reflexes. I know it was a curve based on the google map post, but if one see headlights beaming at you on a one way, aren't you at a minimum pulling foot off gas, and most likely slamming on brakes???

I feel better knowing that there are so few reports, but helluva cautionary tale.

I'll wait for the speed data to be disclosed then decide how spooked to be.

Keep in mind also that two cars going about 45 miles an hour in a head on would likely yield similar force of impact.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Pretty much thinking along lines of my original post. I guess the good news is that reports of explosions are rare. There's the case of the exceptional circumstances of a 100mph accident in high speed pursuit (link above) and this one. I agree the speed the Tesla was traveling is important. . . I think there was an astute poster that flagged the camera data as a good source to compare distance traveled vs. time which will result in a fairly accurate speed. I noted that the tesla moved out of frame much quicker than the oncoming car so clearly the Tesla was hauling ass and saw him late. In fact, if you look closely it appears the Tesla did not brake until AFTER it passed the oncoming car (note brake lights engage after pass). . . So the top speed prior to braking and the speed as it moved out of frame should be calculable.

Here's a thought. . . .If I understand how regenerative braking in the Tesla works, doesn't that mean that she had the foot on the gas still as she passed the dude? There's your evidence for slow judgment and reflexes. I know it was a curve based on the google map post, but if one see headlights beaming at you on a one way, aren't you at a minimum pulling foot off gas, and most likely slamming on brakes???

I feel better knowing that there are so few reports, but helluva cautionary tale.

I'll wait for the speed data to be disclosed then decide how spooked to be.

Keep in mind also that two cars going about 45 miles an hour in a head on would likely yield similar force of impact.

I'm not sure which speed you are comparing to, but your last statement seems to be wrong. The kinetic energy of a car is 1/2 mv^2.

Cars of equivalent mass crashing head on with each other at the 45 mph will experience the same amount of "damage" each as one car crashing into a wall at 45mph (this is assuming crash dynamics of car to car is same as wall for simplicity). The total energy dissipated by the head on crash is 2x that of the wall crash, but don't forget this is now spread over two cars, so overall the "damage" seen per individual car is the same.

A car going at twice the speed (90mph) will see 4x the energy in a crash with a wall (speed is squared). Then figure that the dynamics of a crash into a wall vs a pole is different (pole is much more dangerous as it does not allow crash structures to work to its full ability).

 

[JeffK]

In other news...
Two Dead in Lamborghini Crash at SpeedVegas

 

[brkaus]

Another case of accident between car and tree caused fire, this one in an ICE. Just two weeks back -

SB I-35 near Slaughter Lane reopens after deadly crash

On I-35 in Austin.

"The car burst into flames after hitting the tree. Crews with the Austin Fire Department worked to put out the fire. Police say the driver left the highway before hitting the tree."

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

I want to find the facts here, at what speed hitting a tree would kill most/al occupants of a Tesla Model S (either by blunt force, or resulting fire)? Take all other facts out of this accident for a second (alcohol, time of day, hormones, performance model...)

Would it surprise/shock some of you at least, if police had reported the car was going at, say 55Mph? Particularly, after the recent IIHS tests reporting head injury to driver, in a narrow frontal offset, at a mere 40mph speed?

As far as my own internet search goes, I haven't seen a Tesla hit a tree yet (frontal offset to a solid structure) - I have seen overturned Tesla, Tesla driving into the back of a 18-wheeler (Germany?), Tesla flying off the highway and flying off a fair distance and landing face-down on a farmland (Germany teenager) etc. But this frontal offset accident is unique. Based on the actual accident in this thread, we don't know the speed (was it 50, 60, or was it 100?) but we do know the result (front breaking apart, parts flying off, explosion/fire, 2 deaths).

Many look to be writing this off as one-off, shouldn't happen to anyone driving within limits. But I disagree. A family of 4 driving at legal limit in a freeway (65Mph) could hit a tree trying to avoid a truck coming from opposite direction. What results should we expect? Replace the Tesla with a XC90, or S90 sedan for that matter, what result should we expect?

Then you haven't searched back far enough. I was invested in TSLA around the time this happened: Tesla Model S Takes Out Utility Pole - Causes Blackout For Other EVs - Inside EVs

woman was drunk and drove fast enough to topple the wooden utility pole. Lucky for her it was head-on (not small overlap). No battery pack severing. Not quite a tree, but a pretty good stand-in for one I think.

There was also the drunk in mexico who sheared off a concrete wall and go out before the flames engulfed his car. He vowed to replace it with another Tesla: Tesla Reveals Details on Last Year's Fiery Model S Wreck in Mexico

Both of those were less than 100mph accidents.

 

[ggr]

One of the witnesses to the crash used the word "exploded", but there was no explosion in the sense most people use the word. It disintegrated, then the battery gradually caught fire. The debris was just scattered by the collision. It had to have been at very high speed.

 

[Sully's8]

I'm not sure which speed you are comparing to, but your last statement seems to be wrong. The kinetic energy of a car is 1/2 mv^2.

Cars of equivalent mass crashing head on with each other at the 45 mph will experience the same amount of "damage" each as one car crashing into a wall at 45mph (this is assuming crash dynamics of car to car is same as wall for simplicity). The total energy dissipated by the head on crash is 2x that of the wall crash, but don't forget this is now spread over two cars, so overall the "damage" seen per individual car is the same.

A car going at twice the speed (90mph) will see 4x the energy in a crash with a wall (speed is squared). Then figure that the dynamics of a crash into a wall vs a pole is different (pole is much more dangerous as it does not allow crash structures to work to its full ability).

Thanks, as I mentioned elsewhere not an Engineer by any stretch. Thanks for the remedial physics lesson.

 

[phaduman]

Then you haven't searched back far enough. I was invested in TSLA around the time this happened: Tesla Model S Takes Out Utility Pole - Causes Blackout For Other EVs - Inside EVs

woman was drunk and drove fast enough to topple the wooden utility pole. Lucky for her it was head-on (not small overlap). No battery pack severing. Not quite a tree, but a pretty good stand-in for one I think.

There was also the drunk in mexico who sheared off a concrete wall and go out before the flames engulfed his car. He vowed to replace it with another Tesla: Tesla Reveals Details on Last Year's Fiery Model S Wreck in Mexico

Both of those were less than 100mph accidents.

Thank you! Indeed missed these accidents. Glad to see drivers/passengers alive and kicking after such scary crashes. Indeed - trees look to be one of the worst ones to hit - they just don't give, as pointed out so well by @Nietschy! Thank you all.

 

[FlatSix911]

In other news...
Two Dead in Lamborghini Crash at SpeedVegas

A driver and instructor for SpeedVegas were both killed in their Lamborghini after the car spun, hit a barrier, and caught on fire.

 

[BluestarE3]

I didn't see this story until after I ordered, and it has admittedly given me pause. Part of the selling point of this car to me was safety.
:
"It is indeed something to worry about for all Tesla owners." Truer words never said.
:
Not to be alarmist, but yikes.

Yikes, until my Model 3 arrives, I may just have to leave my Prius in my garage and just walk or bike everywhere:
ICE cars are dangerous.