Tesla Customer Service..... Ugh.. Now I understand the negative reviews.

[SoCal Dave]

I've been messing around with this today, turning each device off/on individually to see what the app does and how the gateway responds..

This morning I just had the powerbooster feeding data into it and the app seemed somewhat right as to what was being used. So I then went back and changed the inverters to use zigbee again..

Now, it's saying my Solar is producing 14kw right now (when there's no sun today, I can't even reliably get this on a sunny day so far), my house is using 13kw and i'm feeding the 1 remaining back into the grid. Then if I go look at my Sense system, it's saying 5kw generated, 2kw being used right now. LOL this is just comical...

My desire to use this was to maybe return this Sense device as it is 350 bucks, but it looks like I'm going to have to keep this if I want to see real-time usage from the grid.

Crazy idea, but does one of your neighbors have a solar as well? I was reading in another thread that the inverters pick the closest Zigbee interface to connect to. It looks like there is a discovery process the gateway goes through to find inverters. Maybe you are picking up someone else's inverter?

 

[holeydonut]

That's not really correct. The reason Tesla can afford to sell solar at this price is they've eliminated the standard expensive one-to-one sales model. For various reasons, the US residential marketplace has a MASSIVE percentage of cost dedicated to customer acquisition, around 25-40% on average. Cutting this out and still maintaining sales is obviously quite a cost advantage.

Problem is, Tesla threw out ALL service when they eliminated sales from the old SolarCity structure. They're essentially rebuilding the organization from scratch and started in the right place....installation(rather than sales).

You should also consider that Tesla is simply benefiting from the sales efforts of other companies and the Tesla "Partners". Reading the feedback on this forum, it's clear there's a pattern where customers become interested in solar for various reasons; but it's not Tesla catalyzing this interest. Instead, you're seeing folks start researching with local/regional companies to gain knowledge. But then they go with Tesla to save money. The other companies and local installers are providing the initial 1:1 consulting, education, lead-gen, etc without seeing the return since Tesla is taking the sale mid-stream.

Yes Tesla is driving the margins in favor of the consumer, but I don't think they're doing it in a way that benefits the industry as a whole.

 

[BrettS]

Crazy idea, but does one of your neighbors have a solar as well? I was reading in another thread that the inverters pick the closest Zigbee interface to connect to. It looks like there is a discovery process the gateway goes through to find inverters. Maybe you are picking up someone else's inverter?

I saw that post, but even if that’s the case I don’t think that’s the problem. The zigbee gateway is simply the path used by the inverter to get to the internet, but the inverter reports it’s production data with it’s own serial number. So as long as the correct inverter’s serial number is correctly linked to the correct tesla account then it doesn’t really matter which zigbee gateway is used.

If someone else’s inverter is connecting to his gateway it just means that inverter is using his internet connection to report it’s data. If his inverter is connected to someone else’s gateway it just means that his inverter is using their internet connection to report it’s data. But since the inverter’s data is reported with it’s serial number it doesn’t really matter who’s internet connection is being used.

 

[wjgjr]

You should also consider that Tesla is simply benefiting from the sales efforts of other companies and the Tesla "Partners". Reading the feedback on this forum, it's clear there's a pattern where customers become interested in solar for various reasons; but it's not Tesla catalyzing this interest. Instead, you're seeing folks start researching with local/regional companies to gain knowledge. But then they go with Tesla to save money. The other companies and local installers are providing the initial 1:1 consulting, education, lead-gen, etc without seeing the return since Tesla is taking the sale mid-stream.

Yes Tesla is driving the margins in favor of the consumer, but I don't think they're doing it in a way that benefits the industry as a whole.

I would disagree on this point - it is certainly disrupting the industry and may hurt some incumbents who cannot or will not adapt, but I think it is definitely helping the industry overall in terms of expanding the number of solar installs. I don't doubt different people come to solar in a number of ways, but I do not think what we've seen on this forum establishes any clear pattern of how customers get interested in solar or Tesla solar in particular.

Much like with cars, Tesla has found success advertising its products through non-traditional, less expensive means. And also, much like cars, part of that is by developing a different way of selling than many in the industry are used to. I see it as good for the consumer and good for the overall success of the industry. Now, they just need to fix their customer service problems....

 

[TheTalkingMule]

You should also consider that Tesla is simply benefiting from the sales efforts of other companies and the Tesla "Partners". Reading the feedback on this forum, it's clear there's a pattern where customers become interested in solar for various reasons; but it's not Tesla catalyzing this interest. Instead, you're seeing folks start researching with local/regional companies to gain knowledge. But then they go with Tesla to save money. The other companies and local installers are providing the initial 1:1 consulting, education, lead-gen, etc without seeing the return since Tesla is taking the sale mid-stream.

Absolutely. It's a complete 180 from a couple years ago when I used to recommend people get a quote from a cheaper local installer, then tell Tesla to match.

The key thing to remember is the lead gen and livingroom sales model currently dominating the marketplace don't really add value. In fact, I generally hear from most solar homeowners that "everything was great except the sales part". These sales teams are incentivized to create opacity and confusion around a product that in reality is quite straightforward and already compelling. Then they "solve" the confusion they created and cash a $4500 commission check. Tesla simply doesn't do that.

People already want solar, something like 60-70% of Americans. What Elon needs to understand is the consultative part can still take place, it just needs to be done online and without the shrouding influence of a 1-to-1 model. Have the conversation with everyone at the same time, like we do here! It's the same problems over and over anyway. No need to "solve" them one at a time.

Yes Tesla is driving the margins in favor of the consumer, but I don't think they're doing it in a way that benefits the industry as a whole.

Our residential solar market will not scale with these ratios of sales cost to total cost, period. So the sooner someone or something permanently disrupts 1-to-1 sales with a transparent solution, the sooner the entire market scales and the customer base can grow exponentially. Until then we're stuck in linear, permanently unprofitable growth at best.

Let us not forget.....#1 installer Sunrun is wildly unprofitable with no plan to drive efficiencies.

 

[holeydonut]

Absolutely. It's a complete 180 from a couple years ago when I used to recommend people get a quote from a cheaper local installer, then tell Tesla to match.

The key thing to remember is the lead gen and livingroom sales model currently dominating the marketplace don't really add value. In fact, I generally hear from most solar homeowners that "everything was great except the sales part". These sales teams are incentivized to create opacity and confusion around a product that in reality is quite straightforward and already compelling. Then they "solve" the confusion they created and cash a $4500 commission check. Tesla simply doesn't do that.

I think this is where we differ. To me, every home is unique and every homeowner is in a unique situation. I also believe the average customer is not as savvy as the people on this forum. Putting all this together, I don't see a cookie-cutter model being applied well to residential solar on existing homes.

I learned something important from every salesperson I spoke with as well as learned from the people on this forum (admittedly, I learned the most from this forum). This helped me understand what would be the right solution for my home. But my experience with Tesla was that they wouldn't really entertain anything I requested.

Tesla simply prescribed what they felt was best using their "our way or the highway" approach. Granted for some homeowners, the Tesla way could be the ideal way. But their lack of flexibility means some other homeowners may be rushed into something that isn't ideal for them because no-one took the time to explore options and understand the customer or to go the proper distance. If you want proof of this; take a look at how Tesla manages the SGIP rebate in California. Tesla has the size/scale to be able to make sure California customers could get the large-scale SGIP rebate if they qualified; but this takes work and effort on their part. So Tesla just says up front they will not assist in the large-scale SGIP process.

It's not like a local installer is some panacea of awesome either. I also experienced a local installer who had their own cookie-cutter solution and refused to budge as well. But most of the local ones would actually take the time to understand, tweak, and explain.

Ultimately I'm glad I didn't go with Tesla and I went with Sunrun. At least Sunrun is willing to listen to the customer, learn something new themselves, and customize a solution that definitely wasn't the cookie cutter script. Plus Sunrun has the purchasing power to actually have Powerwalls in their inventory.

 

[SMAlset]

Every business has their own model for sales. So the fact that Tesla's doesn't fit your ideal for your house doesn't make them a bad choice for many. Tesla simplifies the process, which many I suspect find an overwhelming learning experience and confusing as to what to get. They don't want to know about kWs, kWhs etc. Just want solar power and energy to use if their power goes out. Today many new homes are built with developers offering a set install of X amount of panels. Many in my surrounding neighborhood are like this. Many find this approach great giving them solar and avoids having to work out every detail of what they could have or should have. There's nothing wrong with that. People who naturally are more techy and detail oriented will seek out other options if they don't think Tesla's model works for them.

I've read enough of your posts to have seen you have a very strong opinion on this and have brought it up in many threads. All well and good but I think your posts are more to point out reasons why one shouldn't go with Tesla's ordering. You sound upset that Tesla wouldn't do things the way you wanted. Just saying. Tesla has listened to us and worked with us to give us the layout we wanted and the garage install that worked for us so it's not like they don't do this for their customers where they are able.

 

[holeydonut]

Every business has their own model for sales. So the fact that Tesla's doesn't fit your ideal for your house doesn't make them a bad choice for many. Tesla simplifies the process, which many I suspect find an overwhelming learning experience and confusing as to what to get. They don't want to know about kWs, kWhs etc. Just want solar power and energy to use if their power goes out. Today many new homes are built with developers offering a set install of X amount of panels. Many in my surrounding neighborhood are like this. Many find this approach great giving them solar and avoids having to work out every detail of what they could have or should have. There's nothing wrong with that. People who naturally are more techy and detail oriented will seek out other options if they don't think Tesla's model works for them.

I've read enough of your posts to have seen you have a very strong opinion on this and have brought it up in many threads. All well and good but I think your posts are more to point out reasons why one shouldn't go with Tesla's ordering. You sound upset that Tesla wouldn't do things the way you wanted. Just saying. Tesla has listened to us and worked with us to give us the layout we wanted and the garage install that worked for us so it's not like they don't do this for their customers where they are able.

Yep, I think Tesla's approach is best suited for new housing starts since they'd be able to apply their standard design to homes that were pre-wired and optimized for solar. Rather than trying to cobble together a one-off solution on an older home where the original builder never even thought of solar during the architecture/design.

The OP of this thread (and other prospects) would benefit from seeing Tesla from both of our perspectives to better inform what they could expect when purchasing from Tesla. I definitely would not recommend Tesla Solar/Energy because the two reps I spoke with barely bothered to try and implement the system I was trying to get. While others like yourself had a different (better) experience, so you can steer people toward Tesla with confidence in Tesla that I do not have.

If there's anything I'm actually upset about is the way Tesla is treating their "Tesla Partner" network. In my experience, Tesla throttled supply and also significantly undercut on prices. I assume when all these partners signed up with Tesla over the past few years, they were not privy to Tesla's strategy to commodify PV + Energy solutions by driving down costs to razor thin margins.

 

[SMAlset]

So sounds like you're upset then that you can't buy a PW at Tesla prices from another installer and have it in stock there. Volume sales are what get you a discounted price in this market. I'm guessing many small installers just can't get this discount but they do get more of an allocation for SGIP credits if I'm not mistaken and use that as an incentive. Tesla's SGIP new allotment was literally all spoken for back in January when we placed our deposit. We got put on a waitlist with no guarantee it would be available for us.

As for supply, with the PSPS and rolling blackouts here in our area and other natural disasters hitting other parts of the country, Tesla is seeing a huge demand for PWs and batteries and they have been working with Panasonic to increase production for a few years now. Elon has been very vocal about needing to get that number up. What with all the different uses that Tesla has for it's batteries it's an issue for them. I don't really have a problem with them giving installers an allotment amount. Battery backup is a huge concern and desire right now for homeowners. I see Tesla as doing everything it can to provide a great product at the best price it can for homeowners. I suppose it doesn't have to sell any to outside installers, but until just recently while they still had PW inventory you'd see their TV ads and hear their radio ads prominently featuring Tesla Powerwalls. Like it was the main incentive for people to call them. It's never good to have one supplier for something and there are other battery backup systems out there, but Tesla's PW and integrated system is what a lot of people seek out.

 

[holeydonut]

So sounds like you're upset then that you can't buy a PW at Tesla prices from another installer and have it in stock there.

I think it's pretty lame you keep trying to allude that I'm upset about not getting product directly from Tesla/SolarCity. I'm not sure your intention by trying to make it seem like I regret my purchase decision. I found what I needed; and it wasn't being sold by Tesla/SolarCity.

Let's agree that Tesla's battery Tech is unsurpassed. The Tesla Powerwall 2 and TEG 2 are the best tech out there right now on the Battery side. Numerous local/corporate installers also see this tech-superiority, and have signed up to be Tesla Partners.

It was just weird to hear from some local shops how Tesla was throttling their inventory to a handful of units... while at the same time Sunrun had "all the Powerwalls they needed" and Tesla was pushing a 4x over-sized configuration on me a few months ago.

If you're lurking this thread, just remember it's not always about paying the lowest possible amount. Since you're reading this forum, you're already doing diligence to understand what you're about to put tens of thousands of dollars into for potentially PV and Battery backup solution. Maybe Tesla/SolarCity will be the best option for you to get the tech you want in your house; maybe not. But make sure your decision is informed and you consider the many facets of a significant purchase.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

I think this is where we differ. To me, every home is unique and every homeowner is in a unique situation. I also believe the average customer is not as savvy as the people on this forum. Putting all this together, I don't see a cookie-cutter model being applied well to residential solar on existing homes.

I learned something important from every salesperson I spoke with as well as learned from the people on this forum (admittedly, I learned the most from this forum). This helped me understand what would be the right solution for my home. But my experience with Tesla was that they wouldn't really entertain anything I requested.

Tesla simply prescribed what they felt was best using their "our way or the highway" approach. Granted for some homeowners, the Tesla way could be the ideal way. But their lack of flexibility means some other homeowners may be rushed into something that isn't ideal for them because no-one took the time to explore options and understand the customer or to go the proper distance. If you want proof of this; take a look at how Tesla manages the SGIP rebate in California. Tesla has the size/scale to be able to make sure California customers could get the large-scale SGIP rebate if they qualified; but this takes work and effort on their part. So Tesla just says up front they will not assist in the large-scale SGIP process.

It's not like a local installer is some panacea of awesome either. I also experienced a local installer who had their own cookie-cutter solution and refused to budge as well. But most of the local ones would actually take the time to understand, tweak, and explain.

Ultimately I'm glad I didn't go with Tesla and I went with Sunrun. At least Sunrun is willing to listen to the customer, learn something new themselves, and customize a solution that definitely wasn't the cookie cutter script. Plus Sunrun has the purchasing power to actually have Powerwalls in their inventory.

I think Tesla's approach next spring/summer will be unrecognizable(for the better) compared to what's in place today. Funny I advocate for them as a good option at $2.01/Watt and tell people to just work around their shortcomings, but in no way do I want them to look like this in 12 months. It's a process, and it's early days.

Pretty much every installer I know of local or large has major limiting issues embedded in their DNA except Tesla. Elon removed the facets of the organization that kept it from scaling and simply hasn't added in enough service yet. Compared to the to-do list of changes other installers must very soon consider, Tesla's service issues are peanuts. Just throw money at it and spread it across an exponentially growing customer base.

Sunrun has a cost basis of something like $3.50/W and no means to pivot to something cheaper because they are purely a sales organization. By next summer, I expect Tesla to have more than decent service and a cost basis around $1.90.

We can say that Sunrun's people are helpful, but are they $5,200 helpful? Hell no. The information they provide could be provided for a few hundred bucks, they just don't because they want the commissions and are allowed to operate at a loss.

Sorry to ramble, sales cost is my hot topic. Sometimes I yell about it to strangers in the street.

Edit: Keep in mind, Tesla folks 100% read this forum. Your perspective is right on point and needs to be driven into their minds. Hell, we advocated for cookie cutter pricing on here years ago then it magically appeared.

 

[holeydonut]

Sorry to ramble, sales cost is my hot topic. Sometimes I yell about it to strangers in the street.

Haha yeah, I've done my fair share of cost cutting, and messing with the Sales team is definitely a topic that involves a bunch of yelling.

By the way I'm not trying to defend all Sales practices in general. I like the way Tesla Auto has addressed the sales flow to make things more smooth. Tesla got rid of (somehow got around state merchant laws) the standard pain-fest of showroom haggling. The antiquated car sales process was just a way to squeeze extra margin out of every customer since it forced each customer on an uncomfortable trek of their personal Demand curve. And, the traditional automaker and sales network spent decades honing a process to get as much price out of each transaction as possible using all manner of clever tactics.

But unlike automotive... I think home-improvement benefits from the curated sales approach since everything is so unique. For these customized investments, I think having a more hands on sales/design process is worthwhile since each build is something the homeowner has to live with for decades.

I guess customers still get to choose so that's all and good I just hope customers aren't choosing Tesla/SolarCity thinking they're going to get the high-touch high-service experience.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

I think home-improvement benefits from the curated sales approach since everything is so unique. For these customized investments, I think having a more hands on sales/design process is worthwhile since each build is something the homeowner has to live with for decades.

Absolutely. I think we'll see Elon build out a centralized service center where each $45k employee can crank out 6-20 PROPER array designs a day, even if they have to spend an hour with one customer each day and 20 mins with 2 or 3 others. They have a pretty good head start on software, just need to convince Elon to staff up the frontline service with conviction.

 

[holeydonut]

Absolutely. I think we'll see Elon build out a centralized service center where each $45k employee can crank out 6-20 PROPER array designs a day, even if they have to spend an hour with one customer each day and 20 mins with 2 or 3 others. They have a pretty good head start on software, just need to convince Elon to staff up the frontline service with conviction.

I think Elon's vision is to have zero humans involved anywhere haha. Well, zero true-humans... he's been envisioning humans merging with AI for a while. For some reason I think he'd prefer frontline AI selling solar panels and a robot dropping the panels on the roof. I suppose the buyer of this solar product will be a robot as well.