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Tesla Cybrtrk

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You really think Ford would turn down selling millions of Ford GT's (at the same price they are selling them today)? It would make them the largest and richest company in the world, but instead you think they'd redesign it to make it appeal to less customers, right?

No they wouldn't turn down, but at what cost? Ford can't produce 1 million Ford GT's, and they know it. Well let me rephrase that. They can't and still call it truly a Ford GT. When everyone has one they can't sell for 450k or whatever. No one would want it. So you get a Mustang. Everyone and his brother can afford a Mustang. Still has the blue oval on it. Associates with the brand, sort of.

Which is what I see happening with the Cybrtrk. Will be a pinnacle product. Saying like what you see there look at what we do with a real truck. Does it come in for 50k? Heck no. Already reading headlines that that price point is being walked back

Just like how Birkin sells a $45,000 croc handbag. They make 5 a year for that style. Then sell tons marketed at the moderate rich for $5k. Still killing it and keeping the brand exclusive. All the ladies say I have a Birkin, and so and so carries the 45k one. I carry one too. All stupid, but that is how pinnacle products keep brands alive.
 
Just like you think people prefer headphones via the lightening instead of a 3.5mm jack? I haven't met a single person who prefers this iPhone feature, yet all new iPhones only have that feature - it makes Apple money, that's why it's there.
I never claimed nor implied that all different features were an improvement, just gave a well known example of something that many people "didn't want", including myself, until they actually used it and found it superior.
As for looking to the side, I drove a Prius for a week once with the speedo in the middle. While you can get used to it, it's not something customers are asking for. Model 3 just has more compensating features (specifically EV drivetrain).
Except the Model 3 doesn't really have the speedo in the middle of the vehicle, it's just slightly to the right of the driver. Again, as with the touch screen keyboard, a lot of people complained about it when announced yet very few did so after they've used it.
 
Just like you think people prefer headphones via the lightening instead of a 3.5mm jack? I haven't met a single person who prefers this iPhone feature, yet all new iPhones only have that feature - it makes Apple money, that's why it's there.
I'm interested in trying out your time machine so I can go back to the era where people used wired earbuds. ;)
 
No they wouldn't turn down, but at what cost? Ford can't produce 1 million Ford GT's, and they know it. Well let me rephrase that. They can't and still call it truly a Ford GT. When everyone has one they can't sell for 450k or whatever. No one would want it. So you get a Mustang. Everyone and his brother can afford a Mustang. Still has the blue oval on it. Associates with the brand, sort of.

Which is what I see happening with the Cybrtrk. Will be a pinnacle product. Saying like what you see there look at what we do with a real truck. Does it come in for 50k? Heck no. Already reading headlines that that price point is being walked back

Just like how Birkin sells a $45,000 croc handbag. They make 5 a year for that style. Then sell tons marketed at the moderate rich for $5k. Still killing it and keeping the brand exclusive. All the ladies say I have a Birkin, and so and so carries the 45k one. I carry one too. All stupid, but that is how pinnacle products keep brands alive.
So your opinion is Cybrtrk will sell very few units at a very high price to make people want other Tesla products they can afford?
 
I know people who test drove the Model 3 and said "no thanks", sadly some just an ICE car instead (one got a Mercedes and another picked up a Subaru - the latter liked the Model S but didn't want to spend that much money and Model 3 controls was what killed the deal). What sells Model 3 is the price for EV. People are willing to put-up with it. If you made it a choice at order time, I bet most would pick an instrument cluster in front of them. If Audi had an EV with similar specs and price as Model 3, something tells me they would sell more of them. Time will tell.

When motorized automobiles first came out, they looked a lot like horse drawn carriages. As designers came to understand the differences, the designs changed, improvements were made to suit the purpose of motorized vehicles over the horse drawn carriage. Lots of left over things from carriages were on automobiles, for years, just because people are resistant to change, and designers and engineers hadn’t quite figured everything yet about these new contraptions.

It’s the same thing with EV’s, for example, they don’t need radiator grills, and yet everyone but Tesla feels like they still need something up front to suggest a radiator, the iPace, the Etron, even the new Mach E couldn’t get completely away from it. And even Tesla on the early Model S.

But aerodynamic drag is a more important consideration for EV’s than for ICE cars, so let’s get rid of something we don’t need (radiator grill), and go for improved aerodynamics.

In the time I have been a pilot, 40 years, aircraft cockpits and instrumentation have changed drastically with the advent of better computers and electronic displays. Some pilots at first complained at the change, it’s unsafe, harder to understand, etc, etc, until they get used to it, then they love it, and wonder how they got by without them.

With the advent of touch screens in cars, and no need for much of the instrumentation, ICE parameters and such, car dashboards can be much simpler, less cluttered. But it’s change, some people are resistant, that’s normal.

I drove an iPace before I drove the Tesla, it was quite conventional in exterior looks and the dashboard. I liked it quite a bit, and was ready to order, but wanted to do my due diligence and try the Tesla and Audi as well. There wasn’t an Etron available in my area at the time, so I drove the Tesla.

When I test drove the X, I was sold. Among many things I liked better about the Tesla, I much preferred that Tesla embraced the differences in an EV over an ICE. For example, because there was no fake grill and air scoop, the frunk was actually usable in the Tesla, as opposed to the glove box version in the iPace.

The interior of the X was much plainer than the iPace, but I quickly realized it was easier for me to see all I needed, I could customize what i wanted, the map was huge, in short, in my opinion it was a far superior design for an electric vehicle, embracing the fact that it was a high tech modern machine, not another 20th century holdover, that this was something very new and very different.

I also drove the 3, and loved the simple interior, the lack of instrumentation was not an issue. I felt like I was in a truly modern vehicle, light years ahead in design than my old Lexus even. But that’s just me, I get it.

Some people don’t want that, they want something more familiar. No problem, that’s human nature. The younger generations will be more likely to adopt the new looks, but right now my guess is the majority of EV buyers are older simply because the cars are still relatively expensive, even the Model 3 is for most young people is expensive. So the holdover designs persist, for a while.

In another 20 years, my guess is car Interiors will all be much simpler, more like current Tesla’s, than luxury ICE cars now, as designers and engineers embrace the differences and the tech changes. The old instrument cluster is not needed, and will be a thing of the past. I can’t begin to predict what they will look like, but it won’t be anything like what we see today in luxury ICE cars, I do believe. It just takes time.
 
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But how many of those are only looking to buy cars with the IC in the middle, or asked to retrofit their other current cars (like people who have Model 3 and Model S, are they asking for Model S feature to turn off the IC and only use the big screen)?
Tesla can't keep up with Model 3 demand while Model S sales have dropped. Apparently the Model 3 layout isn't hurting sales one bit and the Model S layout isn't helping.
 
Cars these days are too quiet to judge speed, so I just use adaptive cruise and only need to check speed to see how much the car in front of me is slowing me down. Otherwise, I need to check spedo too often which is annoying regardless of where it is. (guessing the more eyes up position of the 3 would be better than current looking past the steering wheel setup).
 
New theory for you all. Again, just a theory.
One year ago, Musk was talking about a "Cyborg Dragon" Tesla being built. We haven't seen anything since then. Musk's other company, SpaceX, uses their Dragon capsules to transport tons of cargo to the ISS and back. It's also being retrofitted to carry people. Perhaps Cybertruck is this product. Perhaps it's the "Cyborg Dragon". You could have a pickup truck that transports tons of cargo, best in class, and transport people if need be.

This is quite a crazy idea and this is probably a good time to tell everybody, including myself, to lower expectations. We really know nothing about this product and the reveal is in a few days. I can't wait to see what it is they announce.
 
New theory for you all. Again, just a theory.
One year ago, Musk was talking about a "Cyborg Dragon" Tesla being built. We haven't seen anything since then. Musk's other company, SpaceX, uses their Dragon capsules to transport tons of cargo to the ISS and back. It's also being retrofitted to carry people. Perhaps Cybertruck is this product. Perhaps it's the "Cyborg Dragon". You could have a pickup truck that transports tons of cargo, best in class, and transport people if need be.

This is quite a crazy idea and this is probably a good time to tell everybody, including myself, to lower expectations. We really know nothing about this product and the reveal is in a few days. I can't wait to see what it is they announce.

Interesting theory! I love how the amount of speculation on what the Cybertruck will be covers such a wide gamut. Shows how good Tesla’s been about keeping this thing under wraps. And they don’t even have to resort to putting camoed prototypes on the road and tipping spy photographers to generate buzz.
 
You missed my point, which was that this unconventional design feature didn't help Model 3 sales. Model 3 customer don't want the speedometer in the middle, rather they are willing to put up with it (or "get used to it"). Tesla does sell the Model 3 because of the unconventional UI, they sell it despite of it. Another example of Tesla unconventional Elon innovation - Tesla service model where they stick your car in a parking lot queue for few days while you have to drive an enterprise ICE or Uber, even if the service needed take an hour. You think people prefer this service model? Most people buy Teslas because they are the only solid performing EV option today. Yes, there are some people who buy it to show off (like people who stick a P100D badge on a S60), but they are a small percentage.
I was skeptical of the design with no instrument cluster. However, having driven the Model 3 for over a year now, I don't miss it at all. I do love the smaller steering wheel and excellent view afforded by not having the cluster. If they sold one with an instrument cluster, but removed the other two features I just mentioned, I'd stick with the current design.
 
So your opinion is Cybrtrk will sell very few units at a very high price to make people want other Tesla products they can afford?

Now let's not get ahead of what I said, but they could do what you mentioned easily with a show me what is up your sleeve.

I think like many trucks. The base price and the King Ranch are far apart in price. Nothing at all wrong with that. Could be the same with CYBR

I do think the Truck Elon envisions as an APC etc. will not be 50k.... If it is I can only think it will make the Model3 line waiters look like a joke. As in they will have to set up water stations for the line waiters along with porta potties.

I think Tesla needs to show how they get to more of a mass market Chevy 1500 or F-150 or it will be viewed as a disappointment to a certain group. You guess that group. Show us a minimum of a render of what one might take from CYBRTRCK and it's awesome features and translate to competing with those two brands I mentioned.

I will buy one. Yet I do think it is still a Halo product or a Pinnacle product that says. We are different. We upend everyone else's apple cart. Sometimes we overboard with falcon wings and crap, but come join us. They will.

Never underestimate a finicky consumer. Don't give up on the entrenched consumer. Make them both your customer.
 
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Perhaps we can get some insight from Elon's philosophy. Make the vehicle be bigger inside than the outside suggests. Take into consideration what the car will be used for and the characteristics that would make it a good for purpose vehicle.

Imagine it will have some out of the box thinking. Have additional capabilities than current Pickups. Think how the Semi has a single seat in the middle to position the driver in the safest place possible, with the best visability possible.
The Model 3 has no separate vents. It provides great ventilation, but no individual vent openings. Far advanced design there as well. The large center screen replaces scores of individual buttons and switches. The electric motors eliminate multi speed transmissions and there is additional storage in the Frunk because there is space normally taken up by an engine. The floor is flat because no driveline. All fresh thinking. Imagine we will see things never before available in a pickup.

Current pickups tend to be hard on transmissions and rear ends. They tend to overheat when pulling heavy loads up long steep hills, and overheat their brakes on the way down. They tend to ride rougher than cars, especially with nothing in the trunk. They handle poorly as they are high riders. They are large and hard to park in normal parking spaces. You need to climb up to get in. Get poor fuel economy and relatively poor acelleration and braking.

Lots of low hanging fruit. Guys buy trucks for the macho feeling and the capability to do things they will rarely do. Business people buy trucks to work them hard and get things done.
 
ugh... after bollinger blew their product pricing announcement, the cybrtrk is going to be the only thing id be willing to buy.
if its starting at anything less than 60k i might actually consider giving up on my lawn art jeepers kreepers truck.
5379585715_3e01ab4f56_c.jpg


not sure if i want to spend the money to convert that rust bucket over to ev. heres to hoping Thursday night does not disappoint.
 
You missed my point, which was that this unconventional design feature didn't help Model 3 sales. Model 3 customer don't want the speedometer in the middle, rather they are willing to put up with it (or "get used to it"). Tesla does sell the Model 3 because of the unconventional UI, they sell it despite of it. Another example of Tesla unconventional Elon innovation - Tesla service model where they stick your car in a parking lot queue for few days while you have to drive an enterprise ICE or Uber, even if the service needed take an hour. You think people prefer this service model? Most people buy Teslas because they are the only solid performing EV option today. Yes, there are some people who buy it to show off (like people who stick a P100D badge on a S60), but they are a small percentage.

I didn’t miss your point. You’re simply wrong.
 
When motorized automobiles first came out, they looked a lot like horse drawn carriages. As designers came to understand the differences, the designs changed, improvements were made to suit the purpose of motorized vehicles over the horse drawn carriage. Lots of left over things from carriages were on automobiles, for years, just because people are resistant to change, and designers and engineers hadn’t quite figured everything yet about these new contraptions.

It’s the same thing with EV’s, for example, they don’t need radiator grills, and yet everyone but Tesla feels like they still need something up front to suggest a radiator, the iPace, the Etron, even the new Mach E couldn’t get completely away from it. And even Tesla on the early Model S.

But aerodynamic drag is a more important consideration for EV’s than for ICE cars, so let’s get rid of something we don’t need (radiator grill), and go for improved aerodynamics.

In the time I have been a pilot, 40 years, aircraft cockpits and instrumentation have changed drastically with the advent of better computers and electronic displays. Some pilots at first complained at the change, it’s unsafe, harder to understand, etc, etc, until they get used to it, then they love it, and wonder how they got by without them.

With the advent of touch screens in cars, and no need for much of the instrumentation, ICE parameters and such, car dashboards can be much simpler, less cluttered. But it’s change, some people are resistant, that’s normal.

I drove an iPace before I drove the Tesla, it was quite conventional in exterior looks and the dashboard. I liked it quite a bit, and was ready to order, but wanted to do my due diligence and try the Tesla and Audi as well. There wasn’t an Etron available in my area at the time, so I drove the Tesla.

When I test drove the X, I was sold. Among many things I liked better about the Tesla, I much preferred that Tesla embraced the differences in an EV over an ICE. For example, because there was no fake grill and air scoop, the frunk was actually usable in the Tesla, as opposed to the glove box version in the iPace.

The interior of the X was much plainer than the iPace, but I quickly realized it was easier for me to see all I needed, I could customize what i wanted, the map was huge, in short, in my opinion it was a far superior design for an electric vehicle, embracing the fact that it was a high tech modern machine, not another 20th century holdover, that this was something very new and very different.

I also drove the 3, and loved the simple interior, the lack of instrumentation was not an issue. I felt like I was in a truly modern vehicle, light years ahead in design than my old Lexus even. But that’s just me, I get it.

Some people don’t want that, they want something more familiar. No problem, that’s human nature. The younger generations will be more likely to adopt the new looks, but right now my guess is the majority of EV buyers are older simply because the cars are still relatively expensive, even the Model 3 is for most young people is expensive. So the holdover designs persist, for a while.

In another 20 years, my guess is car Interiors will all be much simpler, more like current Tesla’s, than luxury ICE cars now, as designers and engineers embrace the differences and the tech changes. The old instrument cluster is not needed, and will be a thing of the past. I can’t begin to predict what they will look like, but it won’t be anything like what we see today in luxury ICE cars, I do believe. It just takes time.
I agree with you that sometimes design changes face resistance and then become standard. However, there are other times when design changes face resistance because they are really not a great idea. There are plenty of failed inventions (e.g. steam automobiles), and some that make just a small niche markets (e.g. 3 wheeled cars). Then there are some which are just too impractical (e.g. falcon doors, even Elon admitted they were a mistake on the X, didn't learn from DeLorean) - heck, those doors were a large reason why I never bought an X, even though I was waiting for it - when the X first came out the doors were super slow and even on a sunny day in an open parking lot took retries to open or close - my wife compared the speed of X doors to power sliding minivan doors and said "no way the kids and I are waiting for those things to open when it rains".

So, it remains to be seen what the cybertruck will be, and whether its unusual innovations will take over the industry or go down history as a warning to others.
 
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You can pick up a Model 3 with little to no wait, so at the very least they are keeping up with demand.

You’re out of touch. There are people all over the world that can’t get their hands on one at all. Then several European countries have delivery estimates into next year.

Tesla is in the process of adding thousands/wk just for the Chinese market while continuing to up production in the US.
 
I was skeptical of the design with no instrument cluster. However, having driven the Model 3 for over a year now, I don't miss it at all. I do love the smaller steering wheel and excellent view afforded by not having the cluster. If they sold one with an instrument cluster, but removed the other two features I just mentioned, I'd stick with the current design.
Would you pay extra for a car without the instrument cluster if you had a choice?
 
The axle would see less torque, but the hub assembly would see more.
Hence my reference to expecting the "hub casing to be able to handle more torque "

In a standard setup, the hub is only a bearing, so zero driver torque is transferred to the assembly (until you hit the brakes). With the reduction drive, there is a torque being reacted (based on the offset of the shaft from the wheel center, I think).

The higher speed would mean the critical speed design of the half shaft is more of a design factor. They will be probably be fairly short though, so not a huge concern (probably).
Yeah... I'd suspect however that the reaction torque being constrained by the mount points on the edges of the casing would be more than manageable. As has been pointed out, the HUMVEE does it seemingly just fine...
 
You missed my point, which was that this unconventional design feature didn't help Model 3 sales. Model 3 customer don't want the speedometer in the middle, rather they are willing to put up with it (or "get used to it"). Tesla does sell the Model 3 because of the unconventional UI, they sell it despite of it. Another example of Tesla unconventional Elon innovation - Tesla service model where they stick your car in a parking lot queue for few days while you have to drive an enterprise ICE or Uber, even if the service needed take an hour. You think people prefer this service model? Most people buy Teslas because they are the only solid performing EV option today. Yes, there are some people who buy it to show off (like people who stick a P100D badge on a S60), but they are a small percentage.
We much prefer the open view of the road especially at night. We had an S first and when we get back in one it seems strange to have the cluster gauge, if anything the gauge cluster is distracting IMO.