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Tesla Emergency Braking not good enough

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I don’t believe that Volvo truck video was an automated system, but rather an amazingly alert and skilled driver. I don’t think that the technology exists yet from any manufacturer to do what that truck driver did.

I agree that the Tesla automated braking system has a long way to go before it’s perfect, but this technology is still in it’s infancy. It will be improved significantally over the next few years and hopefully get to the point where it can stop like that truck driver did.

It’s very important to remember that *none* of tesla’s (Or any other manufacturer’s) safety features are meant to replace an attentive driver. The driver is the first and only safety system and needs to be paying attention to avoid accidents. Humans aren’t perfect and the safety features are there to try to help reduce the number of accidents when humans make mistakes, but they only work in a limited number of situations at this point. They will reduce the number of accidents and deaths from driver error, but at this point they cannot eliminate them. We need to remember not to rely on this technology or expect more of it than it is capable of providing.
 
I don’t believe that Volvo truck video was an automated system, but rather an amazingly alert and skilled driver. I don’t think that the technology exists yet from any manufacturer to do what that truck driver did.

Tesla may want us to think such technology does not exist. Other companies have been working on AEB and EBA for long time, while Tesla has been focusing on FSD.

MB 2014:

Nissan 2014:

Volvo 2013:

 
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Why make excuses for Tesla? Tesla should just catch up on safety.

I don’t think anyone here is making excuses for Tesla, but I think your ideas of the current state of this technology don’t match reality. There is no company that can make an automatic emergency braking system that will stop 100% of the time in all situations. Honestly I would guess that most of them are no better than 50%. Some companies may have more advanced systems than Tesla right now and many companies have systems that are far less advanced than Tesla, but as I said above, right now even with the most advanced system in the world it is still up to the driver to be alert and avoid getting into a situation where this technology would come into play.

It’s important to realize that the videos from these other companies showing off their technology are carefully vetted and don’t show the situations where they fail.

This is a very rapidly evolving technology and everyone (including Tesla) is working on improving their systems, but even at best we are probably a few years away from these systems being able to safely stop the car in nearly every possible situation.
 
There is no company that can make an automatic emergency braking system that will stop 100% of the time in all situations.

Nobody is suggesting that.

Some companies may have more advanced systems than Tesla right now and many companies have systems that are far less advanced than Tesla.

Agreed. My argument is that Tesla is not safest, but Tesla should put more effort in being safest than implementing generic FSD. Safety first.
 
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Agreed. My argument is that Tesla is not safest, but Tesla should put more effort in being safest than implementing generic FSD. Safety first.

I don’t think these are mutually exclusive. In fact, I think FSD requires a very robust automatic emergency braking system because in the case of FSD you are not going to have a driver who is there and paying attention. It will be entirely up to the car to stop and prevent the accident. I have no doubt that Tesla’s work on FSD is also going to create a very good AEB.
 
Here is how Tesla's Emergency Braking performs: 80-year-old cyclist killed in prang with Tesla Model S

Here is how Volvo's Emergency Braking performs:

I just whish Tesla's safety features were as impressive.
They all use Mobileye so there might not be much of a difference, except for Tesla HW2 which hopefully becomes even better. Whatever it is all of these save a lot of lives, especially now that a majority of drivers keep looking at the phone instead of the road
 
Here is how Tesla's Emergency Braking performs: 80-year-old cyclist killed in prang with Tesla Mode S
the article clearly states:
"... It is unknown at this time if the Tesla driver was using the features when the incident occurred. ... "
so, since there's no way to know whether the cyclist games on the driver from the side or the front or whatever it's kind of premature to blame something that's still an unknown. That's one thing. also, our Tesla says the driver is to always be in control and pay attention. So even if the systems were fully operational, blame still falls back on the driver, just like if your 747 pilot screws up while the jumbo jet is on autopilot.
Here is how Volvo's Emergency Braking performs:
Yea - i HAVE watched, & I've cringed.

every manufacturer has a long long way to go before everyone can be in the backseat.
 
I'm all for any "assist" systems that use computer speed to reduce lag of human reactions... or sensor perception processing that is more capable that what humans can do (e.g. see in the dark). These safety assist systems should be conservative (overly cautious) so that it's OK to occasionally nail the brakes hard for a piece of garbage blowing across the road. The safety assists should never be thought of as infallible by the attentive operator.

Safety assists should never be packaged and sold or enabled only with "self driving" features, I'm totally against that.

Problem arises when the guy behind you does not have the same level of assist or human capability, and his car ends up piling into the rear of your car. However, rules are pretty clear that's always his fault for traveling too close... whether it was you or assists doing the stopping, won't matter. You preventing an injury accident (e.g. striking a pedestrian) and taking one for the team (stopping all traffic behind you from doing the same by putting mass between the pedestrian and additional traffic is a clear win for the pedestrian. Everyone else in the pileup had a cage around them... and have better odds of surviving impacts.. the cars are completely replaceable and matter not.

Safe full self-driving cars are a fallacy on our current roadways. It's not about the car. It's about our infrastructure (the road) that is not capable of supporting it.

When will transportation systems (including vehicle manufacturers) pony up and invest in making some safe stretches of road that are capable of supporting self driving cars? It's a complete re-think of Musk proportion to tackle the issues. Maybe divert some energy and resources (divert the Boring Company to this "boring" problem of roads) rather than duck it (literally)!
 
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I'm all for any "assist" systems that use computer speed to reduce lag of human reactions... or sensor perception processing that is more capable that what humans can do (e.g. see in the dark). These safety assist systems should be conservative (overly cautious) so that it's OK to occasionally nail the brakes hard for a piece of garbage blowing across the road. The safety assists should never be thought of as infallible by the attentive operator.

Safety assists should never be packaged and sold or enabled only with "self driving" features, I'm totally against that.

Problem arises when the guy behind you does not have the same level of assist or human capability, and his car ends up piling into the rear of your car. However, rules are pretty clear that's always his fault for traveling too close... whether it was you or assists doing the stopping, won't matter. You preventing an injury accident (e.g. striking a pedestrian) and taking one for the team (stopping all traffic behind you from doing the same by putting mass between the pedestrian and additional traffic is a clear win for the pedestrian. Everyone else in the pileup had a cage around them... and have better odds of surviving impacts.. the cars are completely replaceable and matter not.

Safe full self-driving cars are a fallacy on our current roadways. It's not about the car. It's about our infrastructure (the road) that is not capable of supporting it.

When will transportation systems (including vehicle manufacturers) pony up and invest in making some safe stretches of road that are capable of supporting self driving cars? It's a complete re-think of Musk proportion to tackle the issues. Maybe divert some energy and resources (divert the Boring Company to this "boring" problem of roads) rather than duck it (literally)!
I'm not sure how all Emergency Braking system works, but with Tesla, it's using Radar/Camera inputs to an AI system.

In this implementation, I believe they need to have fairly high confidence of an impending collision before being enabled. Otherwise, hard braking for a phantom object while driving 80mph on the freeway is probably a lot more dangerous than running into a paper bag. The last thing we would want is for vehicles to unpredictably brake and cause an accident for no good reason.
 
Paper bag... great example.

Your car's detectors can't find it, or the car's AI says "ignore" and hits it.

A smart road would beacon that a road hazard is present and slow all (automated) traffic down and navigate them around the bag. Or stop all traffic until the hazard is cleared. And it would raise a barrier to block the lane with the hazard - for the benefit of non-automated vehicles (if they were even allowed to be on the same road - maybe commercial vehicles only).

Which is good because the road worker finds a litter of kittens inside the bag, that somebody tossed out the window...

images.jpg


The cameras and detectors recorded which car made the offense.
 
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