Sexy_owner
Member
I will kiss Manchin on the lips if he makes it $12,500 credit for Tesla cars!
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Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?
- Thread starter hnguy054
- Start date
Wow...so there is a possibility of an additional $4,500 for Tesla. I guess anything is possible at this point but probably not likely this will happen. But would be awesome if it did and was passed before I get my Y. Demand would skyrocket and I would assume more price increases would follow.
There is a possibility, but I think part of it depends on how the CBO scores the EV credit. We all know the WH/Congress is underestimating the cost by quite a bit. My personal guess is that we end up at the $7,500/$8,000 credit if anything at all. I certainly worry that nothing is going to happen by the end of the year at this point. The debt ceiling, government spending bill, defense spending bill, and appeasing Manchin all stand in the way. Not to mention Thanksgiving and Christmas thrown in the path as well. That really puts everyone looking at taking delivery in December in a tough spot, including me!
“Paid for” in political speak is bs.
Some of the provisions that ‘cost’ expire in a year, yet provisions that produce revenue are for 10 years. The impetus is that the benefits are like heroin, and as such the deficit adders will get the votes later when renewal (and elections) happens.
Some of the provisions that ‘cost’ expire in a year, yet provisions that produce revenue are for 10 years. The impetus is that the benefits are like heroin, and as such the deficit adders will get the votes later when renewal (and elections) happens.
As a fiscal conservative this is the most ridiculous discussion ever. An EV adoption credit for buyers when demand is through the roof and supply is constrained is asinine. It solves nothing and exasperates the problem.
Fix the problem and increase carbon impact charges (or at least reduce those credits).
As a buyer of EVs (our on order model Y is #3) my pocket book appreciates the free money and it’s actually doing a nice job of transferring wealth to us.
But for the sake of the bigger picture I truly hope it doesn’t pass. And I think that is the biggest obstacle. I see 4 things happening: CBO score comes back on the high cost end; inflationary pressures grow in reports at beginning of Dec; Tesla and other automakers continue to complain about supply constraints and year long waits; and the bill is delayed vote until Mid December.
All 4 of those make passage LESS likely vs more.
Fix the problem and increase carbon impact charges (or at least reduce those credits).
As a buyer of EVs (our on order model Y is #3) my pocket book appreciates the free money and it’s actually doing a nice job of transferring wealth to us.
But for the sake of the bigger picture I truly hope it doesn’t pass. And I think that is the biggest obstacle. I see 4 things happening: CBO score comes back on the high cost end; inflationary pressures grow in reports at beginning of Dec; Tesla and other automakers continue to complain about supply constraints and year long waits; and the bill is delayed vote until Mid December.
All 4 of those make passage LESS likely vs more.
Just to be clear, demand IS through the roof. EV sales percentage is entirely driven by production limits. Tesla is the only company scaling volume at present. look at the long wait times.
Agreed. Demand does not equal market share. Demand through the roof implies more buyers than suppliers. And that is not in debate.
From what I can see, the EV Tax Credit has little to do with the environment and everything to do with protecting aganist the pending hordes of Chinese EVs from getting a beach head in USA.
According to Sandy Monro, there are lots of Chinese EVs in their pipeline, and they are wanting to take over the US market soon.
Purpose of the EV Tax Credit is to get US producers a leg up in getting their own production up to speed. The Tax Credit will incentivize them to build additional factories with US workers. Government wants to stop companies like Ford from going to cheaper Mexico to build their cars while unemployment is such a problem in the US.
The Union carve out is simply pandering to US Unions that give over 95% of their campaign donations to Democrat candidates.
Best bill possible would be to give 100% of the Credits to companies that build their EVs in the USA and hire exclusively USA workers.
If they bring in foreign workers, their credits should be reduced accordingly. US companies could remain competitive, while still paying typically higher us workers.
If USA is to remain strong they should encourage goods sold in the US to be also produced in US. China is doing that right now with great results, They discourage their people from buying US rice, even though it is high quality and less expensive. They want to siphon off as many $ as possible to weaken the US and cause US to go deeper in debt. IT is a long term goal to make China more prosperous at the expense of US and other World powers.
Most car buyers (rich and poor) will make their individual buying decisions depending on their own circumstances. A Tax Credit on domestic production will make their decision to buy from US production easier.
Many countries have already set up their own protectionist policies. They levy large taxes (up to 100%) on vehicles from US. This helps keep their own workers employeed and strengthens their own treasuries.
According to Sandy Monro, there are lots of Chinese EVs in their pipeline, and they are wanting to take over the US market soon.
Purpose of the EV Tax Credit is to get US producers a leg up in getting their own production up to speed. The Tax Credit will incentivize them to build additional factories with US workers. Government wants to stop companies like Ford from going to cheaper Mexico to build their cars while unemployment is such a problem in the US.
The Union carve out is simply pandering to US Unions that give over 95% of their campaign donations to Democrat candidates.
Best bill possible would be to give 100% of the Credits to companies that build their EVs in the USA and hire exclusively USA workers.
If they bring in foreign workers, their credits should be reduced accordingly. US companies could remain competitive, while still paying typically higher us workers.
If USA is to remain strong they should encourage goods sold in the US to be also produced in US. China is doing that right now with great results, They discourage their people from buying US rice, even though it is high quality and less expensive. They want to siphon off as many $ as possible to weaken the US and cause US to go deeper in debt. IT is a long term goal to make China more prosperous at the expense of US and other World powers.
Most car buyers (rich and poor) will make their individual buying decisions depending on their own circumstances. A Tax Credit on domestic production will make their decision to buy from US production easier.
Many countries have already set up their own protectionist policies. They levy large taxes (up to 100%) on vehicles from US. This helps keep their own workers employeed and strengthens their own treasuries.
Sexy_owner
Member
I think we all agree the EV demand is high. However, IMHO, the pending EV credit contributes somewhat to that demand and that was the whole purpose of the EV credit legislation.
I am of the understanding that $7500 will be retroactive (due to the 200,000 vehicle cap being removed from the old EV credit) but additional bonus credits are not.
thinktwice
Member
Interesting, never quite thought of it in this way. It's true that this incentive is just as much to encourage auto makers to invest in EVs by incentivizing the purchase for consumers. That's partially why I disagree with the rhetoric of who does and doesn't need it.
That is not exactly how I read it. My understanding is the current credit (with limits) continues to the end of 2021. Starting 1/1/2022 the new tax credits would apply that are refundable with no limits. Starting 1/1/2023 the tax credit would convert to a point of sale credit. Obviously, this is all up in the air still but that is what the current house version has said. I think it is a tough sell to make this retroactive for all of 2021. They need to reduce costs in the bill, not increase them.
thinktwice
Member
Reality is the wealth is really being transferred to automakers and maybe that's not a bad thing if the goal is to reduce the number of ICE vehicles produced and on the road. If automakers set MSRP taking into account the tax incentive (and make no mistake about it, they do), then that money you think you're getting back really just pays for the markup.
As I think about it, if they don't get the union $$$ added, there's not a ton of benefit (from a Congressional standpoint) to get an EV deal done this year. Other than GM & Tesla, everyone else is currently eligible for the $7,500 tax credit. In that light, I could see them sacrificing the EV upgrades for now. OTOH, they might also sell it as having limited increased cost--at least in the early years--and manage to keep it.
True in the future. Less true for those who bought before the mark ups. And if the increased MSRPs raise all ships and increase used car and competing car prices? Then a new baseline has been created.
So there’s a window where the buyer wins. A window where the seller wins. And then the market stabilizes at the newly inflated price. Rinse and repeat.
The Senate bill first said retroactive and the newer House bill did not specify I thought. It lines up with the what the Tesla advisor mentioned above was saying and this article here. Latest on Tesla EV Tax Credit (November 2021) - Current and Upcoming in 2022
I feel EV credits are more "green" than other parts of the bill so maybe they will cut elsewhere and keep this. Not sure where the cost of this compares to the cost of the rest of the bill. One can only wait and hope.
leaftoy
Member
But they may not get another chance to do this again later. Which is why EV credit is still being considered despite the fact that among manufacturers who have maxed out, one doesn't currently need any credit to sell everything they make and more, and the other currently doesn't have a vehicle to sell.
Fluffhead
Member
This is wrong but gets mentioned in every single page of this thread.
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