Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?

[thecavalry]

Someone with the means is going to pick what they want when they want it, perceived cost benefits be damned.

You said it perfectly. Ridiculous to subsidize those with very high incomes, into a high end car.

This is backwards thinking. The subsidies are to incentivize car manufacturers to make electric vehicles, at all price levels.

The purpose is to increase the amount of EV’s on the road by subsidizing higher manufacturing costs and prices, to bring them closer in line to ICE vehicles. It’s not a “Thank you for choosing an electric vehicle” gift from Uncle Sam. And it’s intended for manufacturing cars at every budget - to get more EV’s on the road instead of ICE ones.

 

[PineNut]

The NHTSA classifies the Tesla Y as an SUV.

2020 TESLA MODEL Y SUV AWD | NHTSA

www.nhtsa.gov

Fueleconomy.gov, another government agency, also classifies as an SUV:

Fuel Economy of the 2021 Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD

2021 Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD. Search by make for fuel efficient new and used cars and trucks

www.fueleconomy.gov

Unless you saw another definition in the bill that classifies an SUV, I suggest what you're asserting is misinformation that has no authoritative source / backing.

There is also a thread about a new "7SA" sequence in the VINs of the Model Y and X (vehicle type: "MPV") which differentiate them from "5YJ" for the Model 3 and S (vehicle type: Passenger Car). I guess "MPV" is an SUV? If so, then the VIN should identify the type of car and hopefully make it easier for the IRS come tax time.

7SA VIN for 2022

 

[leaftoy]

Someone with the means is going to pick what they want when they want it, perceived cost benefits be damned.

You said it perfectly. Ridiculous to subsidize those with very high incomes, into a high end car.

Base tax rates are already progressive. People who make more pay a higher percentage of their earnings. And this proposed legislation is bumping up those numbers for folks in MFJ 400k+ range. Why not just leave it at that instead of going back and back for more from folks in that income range with the same tired excuse. They make too much. It is OK to subsidize someone purchasing an 80k vehicle unless they make too much? How is that fair. Instead bump the MSRP limit lower to, say, 40k, and don't worry about AGI limits. That will achieve the same thing without being unfair.

 

[240W]

Someone with the means is going to pick what they want when they want it, perceived cost benefits be damned.

You said it perfectly. Ridiculous to subsidize those with very high incomes, into a high end car.

Is the bill really about giving tax break for high earners, I thought the idea behind it was to combat climate change?
Tons of high earners def can buy what they want when they want, but that also includes Y vs ICE whatever, and alot are on the fence, worry about range anxiety, charging infrastructure, etc etc. Incentive may sway them to convert from ICE to EV. I do agree some already have it in mind to buy an EV and get the credit without needing it, sure, but that is to be expected.

 

[Corndart]

That would be a great idea. So far it hasn’t happened. I haven’t heard any rumors of this happening either.

BBB hasn't passed yet, there is nothing to change. Tesla employed some battery range tactics in Canada to offer below the price that qualified for a subsidy, [edit] unclear if they actually allowed the remaining capacity to be later unlocked but that's how I'd do it, assuming it passed legal muster.

Tesla starts advertising Model 3 with 93 miles of range on its website in Canada

Tesla is now starting to advertise the Model 3 with 93 miles of range, which aims to give buyers access...

electrek.co

 

[Corndart]

That should be expressly forbidden in any deal.

Either they sell you the complete car at a compliant price, or it doesn't qualify for subsidy.

Designing the perfectly crafted law that doesn't allow some creative thinking to work around some of its edges is not possible IMHO.

 

[Corndart]

Is the bill really about giving tax break for high earners, I thought the idea behind it was to combat climate change?
Tons of high earners def can buy what they want when they want, but that also includes Y vs ICE whatever, and alot are on the fence, worry about range anxiety, charging infrastructure, etc etc. Incentive may sway them to convert from ICE to EV. I do agree some already have it in mind to buy an EV and get the credit without needing it, sure, but that is to be expected.

Some of my earlier comments regarding the efficacy of the approach BBB takes got moved to a politics type thread elsewhere.

This thread is supposed to discuss the law and how it applies to Tesla buyers. It seems pretty clear how the Congressional bill would apply to us buyers.

Maybe we should just stick to that angle, and there really isn't much left to discuss until updates come out of Senate debate,

 

[doomsday997]

Base tax rates are already progressive. People who make more pay a higher percentage of their earnings. And this proposed legislation is bumping up those numbers for folks in MFJ 400k+ range. Why not just leave it at that instead of going back and back for more from folks in that income range with the same tired excuse. They make too much. It is OK to subsidize someone purchasing an 80k vehicle unless they make too much? How is that fair. Instead bump the MSRP limit lower to, say, 40k, and don't worry about AGI limits. That will achieve the same thing without being unfair.

I totally agree the MSRP limit should be lower than it is

 

[rlzalusky]

I bet you whine about corporate tax breaks (Which I’m not totally down for, either) unironically, too.

Nope - they periodically have their place. The government does have a place in encouraging directions not necessarily individual winners and losers.

 

[Corndart]

a quick search brings this. Though they say consult with a tax professional, it looks OK to claim more than one EV per year

Here's every electric vehicle that currently qualifies for the US federal tax credit

Here's a comprehensive guide to help you figure out if your electric vehicle still qualifies for any federal tax credit and state incentives.

electrek.co

"Section 136401. Refundable new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle credit for individuals. This provision provides for a refundable income tax credit for new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicles placed into service by the taxpayer during the taxable year. The credit is limited to one vehicle per-taxpayer per-taxable year."

 

[rwiegand]

The NHTSA classifies the Tesla Y as an SUV.

2020 TESLA MODEL Y SUV AWD | NHTSA

www.nhtsa.gov

Fueleconomy.gov, another government agency, also classifies as an SUV:

Fuel Economy of the 2021 Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD

2021 Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD. Search by make for fuel efficient new and used cars and trucks

www.fueleconomy.gov

Unless you saw another definition in the bill that classifies an SUV, I suggest what you're asserting is misinformation that has no authoritative source / backing.

OK, went and found the reference: 40CFR 600.315-08 (2) contains the following (self referential, in that they don't actually define sport utility vehicle) definitions:
(v) Small sport utility vehicles. Sport utility vehicles with a GVWR below 6,000 pounds.
(vi) Standard sport utility vehicles. Sport utility vehicles with a GVWR at or above 6,000 pounds and at or below 10,000 pounds.

I haven't asserted anything, I'm asking a question as someone with a Model Y on order who is concerned about apparent ambiguity in the current draft of the law. Ever since I didn't get a tax rebate that everyone in the process insisted I was eligible for due to a technicality when buying a hybrid Camry back when they first came out, I'm more than a little gun shy and skeptical. It's been 20 years, and I'm obviously not over it!

Obviously I hope the word "SUV" means both "Standard sport utility vehicle" and "Small sport utility vehicle", but it doesn't explicitly say that.

 

[aparan]

"Section 136401. Refundable new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle credit for individuals. This provision provides for a refundable income tax credit for new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicles placed into service by the taxpayer during the taxable year. The credit is limited to one vehicle per-taxpayer per-taxable year."

Thanks. This is what I see under section 136401 "Taxpayers may only elect the credit for the purchase of one electric vehicle per year"
Is there a link for reference?

 

[Corndart]

Thanks. This is what I see under section 136401 "Taxpayers may only elect the credit for the purchase of one electric vehicle per year"
Is there a link for reference?

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/Section_by_Section_BBB_RCP117-18_.pdf

 

[RD3P]

BBB hasn't passed yet, there is nothing to change. Tesla employed some battery range tactics in Canada to offer below the price that qualified for a subsidy, [edit] unclear if they actually allowed the remaining capacity to be later unlocked but that's how I'd do it, assuming it passed legal muster.

Tesla starts advertising Model 3 with 93 miles of range on its website in Canada

Tesla is now starting to advertise the Model 3 with 93 miles of range, which aims to give buyers access...

electrek.co

I'm not going to count on them lowering M3P pricing and gating performance via $$ upgrade. If it happens, it happens.

 

[Corndart]

BBB hasn't passed yet, there is nothing to change. Tesla employed some battery range tactics in Canada to offer below the price that qualified for a subsidy, [edit] unclear if they actually allowed the remaining capacity to be later unlocked but that's how I'd do it, assuming it passed legal muster.

Tesla starts advertising Model 3 with 93 miles of range on its website in Canada

Tesla is now starting to advertise the Model 3 with 93 miles of range, which aims to give buyers access...

electrek.co

Not sure why you're thumbs downing a report of what Tesla did in Canada but hmmmkay.

 

[aparan]

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/Section_by_Section_BBB_RCP117-18_.pdf

Thanks for the link. You are correct the wording is "The credit is limited to one vehicle per-taxpayer per-taxable year"

"Per-taxpayer" part in the bill can be interpreted as 1 EV for husband and 1EV for wife when married couples filing jointly?

 

[Corndart]

Thanks for the link. You are correct the wording is "The credit is limited to one vehicle per-taxpayer per-taxable year"

"Per-taxpayer" part in the bill can be interpreted as 1 EV for husband and 1EV for wife when married couples filing jointly?

That would be my assumption. Not sure if it's gated behind the spouse working / has a source of income but your tax professional will know for sure.

 

[aparan]

" • is acquired for use by the taxpayer and not for resale" With this clause, I think folks who wants to flip it quickly for a profit can't use the tax credits. May impact the crazy resale prices we see now

 

[voxel]

" • is acquired for use by the taxpayer and not for resale" With this clause, I think folks who wants to flip it quickly for a profit can't use the tax credits. May impact the crazy resale prices we see now

I doubt it. That's not what is driving the resale market. All used cars - EVs or ICEs are massively inflated.

 

[voxel]

a quick search brings this. Though they say consult with a tax professional, it looks OK to claim more than one EV per year

Here's every electric vehicle that currently qualifies for the US federal tax credit

Here's a comprehensive guide to help you figure out if your electric vehicle still qualifies for any federal tax credit and state incentives.

electrek.co

That's the existing EV tax credits currently in place (not applicable to Tesla because they reached 200K cap). There's a guy who bought three ID.4 and will claim $7500 on all of them for 2021... it's perfectly legal under the current rules but NOT for the proposed rules in BBB.

In fact, I will be claiming two $7500 tax credits for myself in 2021 - ID.4 Pro and Mach-E Premium. This would impossible in 2022 which is why I decided to try a Mach-E this year instead of next.