Tesla forced an update of my P85D to 2019.16.2

[MelaniainLA]

Why didn’t you just remove the LTE or 3G SIM card from the MCU?? No data connection, no forced update, no farts, no games. Easy.

 

[MelaniainLA]

Why didn’t you just remove the LTE or 3G SIM card from the MCU?? No data connection, no forced update, no farts, no games. Easy.

Actually, can you get an MCU from a salvage non-updated car and swap it into your car and be “downgraded” that way??

 

[The T-man]

that is total BS...owners should have the option to use whatever vers. they choose.

 

[sublimejackman]

Why didn’t you just remove the LTE or 3G SIM card from the MCU?? No data connection, no forced update, no farts, no games. Easy.

Thank You!!!

 

[kavyboy]

If you purposely keep your car on a deprecated version of the software while using Tesla services; you are not holding your end of the deal up.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this one. I made no deals other than car for money and services, plus warranty. I agreed to pay and I did. I no longer owe anybody anything.

 

[sublimejackman]

Actually, can you get an MCU from a salvage non-updated car and swap it into your car and be “downgraded” that way??

Yep! Also there is a company that specializes in just helping Tesla owners with their MCU. You can upgrade or downgrade hardware or software to most any version.

 

[kavyboy]

Why didn’t you just remove the LTE or 3G SIM card from the MCU?? No data connection, no forced update, no farts, no games. Easy

Because I was sold (not promised) 4 years of connectivity and a suite of features. Removing the card would cripple the product I purchased. Now that is easy to understand.

EDIT: And I was never told that updates were mandatory, nor did I agree to do do them.

 

[sublimejackman]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this one. I made no deals other than car for money and services, plus warranty. I agreed to pay and I did. I no longer owe anybody anything.

My issue is with the Terms of Service. When you buy the car, you get the physical car. In order to continue using the service that Tesla provides, you must continue to honor your side of those terms. Simply stated, Tesla has access to certain data and in exchange your vehicle has up-to-date software. If you knowingly keep your car on the Tesla network (via LTE), then you consent to the terms of use. Tesla has a vested interest in not being fined or sued. If you don't like a company forcing software changes and/or updates (windows 10, Tesla V9) then don't use their services. But as long as they are providing an ongoing service, there is going to be an ongoing cost. That cost, in this case, is a software update that Tesla deemed necessary.

 

[MelaniainLA]

Because I was sold (not promised) 4 years of connectivity and a suite of features. Removing the card would cripple the product I purchased. Now that is easy to understand.

EDIT: And I was never told that updates were mandatory, nor did I agree to do do them.

I know. Was kidding.

 

[dhanson865]

happened on pre-2014 Model S(ones with the nosecone) Please correct me on this if I am wrong.

1. I'm not sure what cars caught on fire and I'm not going to research that tonight
2. I'm not sure if your description of pack changes is accurate in regards to when or what changed.

But one thing I will address now is your nosecone fixation is misleading. You are talking about 2012, 2013, and maybe some 2014 cars if I understand correctly but the nosecone doesn't go away until some time in 2016. So by focusing in so many posts about cars with nosecones having some flaw you are painting the majority of the nosecone cars that don't have that issue with a broad brush.

By the nature of Tesla selling more cars each year at an exponential rate there more cars sold after your cutoff point with a nosecone than cars sold before that point with a nosecone.

I still don't know if you are correct about the underlying issues but you should stop focusing on the nosecone and start finding a better way to specify what you are referring to.

 

[FlatSix911]

Yep! Also there is a company that specializes in just helping Tesla owners with their MCU. You can upgrade or downgrade hardware or software to most any version.

Can you provide more information on this service?

 

[swegman]

My issue is with the Terms of Service. When you buy the car, you get the physical car working. In order to continue using the service that Tesla provides, you must continue to honor your side of those terms. Simply stated is that Tesla has access to certain data and that your vehicle has up-to-date software. If you purposely keep your car on the Tesla network (via LTE) then you consent to the terms of use. Tesla has vested interest in not being fined or sued. So all cars using their network received new software. If you don't like a company forcing software changes, updates (windows 10, Tesla V9) then don't use their services. But as long as they are providing an ongoing service, there is going to be an ongoing cost. That cost, in this case, was a software update that Tesla deemed necessary.

There is a problem here and that is that not everyone agreed to the Terms if Service you are referring to. I for one never received any such Terms of Service and (hence) never agreed to such terms.

I reserved my car when they first announced the Model S. I was the 251 reservation placed for the car. I signed a reservation form online and paid my reservation fee, and then waited and waited and waited to they started making the car. I then signed a contract that contained no Terms of Service or my thing else other than indicating the options and features of the car. When the car was delivered I did an ACH transfer from my account to Tesla’s account. That was it. No Terms of Service was provided to read, to sign or to do anything with.

Now, to make things more interesting, that car had issues from day 1. After Tesla couldn’t resolve the problem (it would go to sleep on its own and become totally unresponsive) Elob’s office Telephoned me saying he wanted the car back so they could strip it down to try to find the problem. I had already received the title from the DMV. I gave the second key fob to Tesla (handshake, no paperwork involved), and about a month later a new car was handed to me. There was no paperwork signed by me regarding the second car. The first car was never officially transferred back to Tesla and hence, 2 titles for two different VINs are still recorded with the DMV.

 

[kavyboy]

My issue is with the Terms of Service. When you buy the car, you get the physical car working. In order to continue using the service that Tesla provides, you must continue to honor your side of those terms. Simply stated is that Tesla has access to certain data and that your vehicle has up-to-date software. If you purposely keep your car on the Tesla network (via LTE) then you consent to the terms of use. Tesla has vested interest in not being fined or sued. So all cars using their network received new software. If you don't like a company forcing software changes, updates (windows 10, Tesla V9) then don't use their services. But as long as they are providing an ongoing service, there is going to be an ongoing cost. That cost, in this case, was a software update that Tesla deemed necessary.

OK, I'm getting you now. Not saying I agree 100%, but I understand where you're coming from.
My Terms and Conditions is a very short document. It states nothing about updates or access to data. Zilch. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing. I know new warranties state that updates are required, but my agreement predates those revisions. Tesla's lack of foresight and entering into contracts they don't want to honor should not be my ongoing obligation to deal with. If I had known that the car I was buying might radically change and that I might have no say in the matter, I probably would not have agreed to that and would not have purchased.

 

[kavyboy]

Can you provide more information on this service?

And where I can buy stock in the company?

 

[sublimejackman]

There is a problem here and that is that not everyone agreed to the Terms if Service you are referring to. I for one never received any such Terms of Service and (hence) never agreed to such terms.

I reserved my car when they first announced the Model S. I was the 251 reservation placed for the car. I signed a reservation form online and paid my reservation fee, and then waited and waited and waited to they started making the car. I then signed a contract that contained no Terms of Service or my thing else other than indicating the options and features of the car. When the car was delivered I did an ACH transfer from my account to Tesla’s account. That was it. No Terms of Service was provided to read, to sign or to do anything with.

Now, to make things more interesting, that car had issues from day 1. After Tesla couldn’t resolve the problem (it would go to sleep on its own and become totally unresponsive) Elob’s office Telephoned me saying he wanted the car back so they could strip it down to try to find the problem. I had already received the title from the DMV. I gave the second key fob to Tesla (handshake, no paperwork involved), and about a month later a new car was handed to me. There was no paperwork signed by me regarding the second car. The first car was never officially transferred back to Tesla and hence, 2 titles for two different VINs are still recorded with the DMV.

So your argument is that I moved into a house and every day someone has brought me milk. I never paid for this milk or asked for it, but since it is there, I drink it. Then one day there is cream instead if Milk and you're pissed at the Milkman? I don't understand. This is like arguing that one guy who got the 251st iPhone ever made never technically agreed to use iOS because he took it back to the Genius Bar one day.

 

[MXWing]

Tesla just needs to rip the band aid off and stop allowing people to defer updates past a certain short number of days.

Upgrade everyone Oprah style.

Or burn everyone Daenerys style.

Write a TOS and make everyone agree to it even though it’s common sense you should keep your vehicles updated.

Let’s see if Tesla loses more than a dozen sales by not bending the knee to a few extremists.

Last thing the entire Tesla owning community needs is possible exploits being left in because someone refused to update.

Put me on the build and release team. I’m ready to push the button.

@HankLloydRight - believe me when I say I want what is best for you.

The right way to fix your woes is lobbying for UI redesign - not refusing updates.

 

[sublimejackman]

OK, I'm getting you now. Not saying I agree 100%, but I understand where you're coming from.
My Terms and Conditions is a very short document. It states nothing about updates or access to data. Zilch. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing. I know new warranties state that updates are required, but my agreement predates those revisions. Tesla's lack of foresight and entering into contracts they don't want to honor should not be my ongoing obligation to deal with. If I had known that the car I was buying might radically change and that I might have no say in the matter, I probably would not have agreed to that and would not have purchased.

If you honestly believe that at no point you agreed to Tesla modifying the software on your car without explicit consent; then in all seriousness you need to report Tesla to the FBI cyber crimes division. I'm not kidding.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Either way, if you take a look at all "spontaneous fire" incidents that involve a Tesla, it's an early model S. No other model has this issue.

Correlation is not causation. Correlation does not imply causation - Wikipedia

And the person saying v9 is garbage because it got tested on a bench seems to be missing the point. I’m sure it was bench tested and simulator tested and car tested, but of course it got bench tested.

You're sure of that? How sure? If any sane and reasonable person over 40 years old actually drove a real car with V9 installed, we wouldn't have ended up with the flustercluck we have now. And if it was field tested, any negative results were obviously ignored or outright rejected by the twenty-somethings that think they know better. That's not how you run a software house. Unless of course, you're Tesla, and you are so flipping arrogant that you think you know better than hundreds of thousands of actual users using the software every single day.

Man. I'm really surprised by the backlash I'm getting. And I refuse to back down. You exchanged money for a device. You are now the owner of a device. Hack it. Burn it to the ground. Drive it off a cliff. It is your device. No one else is obligated to help you or provide you any service. If you would like to use a service (the warranty, the LTE, the maps, the music) then you enter into a contract. In this case a contract between the owner of a vehicle and its manufacturer. That agreement is bilateral and requires both parties to hold up their respective ends of the deal. The owners end is that Tesla can basically use the data they collect for any purpose and alter the software in the car any way they see fit. You get all the cool stuff that literally no other car company in the world provides (see earlier list). If you want V8 or V5 or Ubuntu or make your car into a sculpture; cool. If you want to drive your car with all those cool service based features, then you need to accept they are going to alter the software on your car as they see fit.

I feel like the entitlement in this thread is insane. Bunch of rich kids with their fancy toys bitching about how they had the world's most advanced software forced upon them. "Mommy! Mommy! Elon forced me to look at a big free map instead of a small one in my $90k sedan." Again, just stop.

What I don't agree with is people feeling like they're entitled to a service that they are not paying for. If you purposely keep your car on a deprecated version of the software while using Tesla services; you are not holding your end of the deal up. It is nothing but entitlement to believe that you can break the service contract and still expect the service. Pure and simple. If you use Tesla provided services, then they can literally brick your MCU if they feel like it.

I wish you would stop. You are using the LTE service, Google maps, the music, supercharging, etc? Then you are using something that costs Tesla money. You want those services for free. You want to use those services but not accept that Tesla will change the software that connects to those services. If you want v8, DONT USE TESLA SERVICES! Otherwise don't complain. You're like those guys who rebuild salvaged Tesla's and then complain that supercharging and LTE doesn't work. Tesla services cost them money. Your exchange of money for a product ended when you drove off the lot. Everything else is a service contract and you don't want to hold your end up.

You must be really new here, because you keep harping on this one singular assertion. What you obviously don't know, and don't understand is that Tesla has always intended to charge people for broadband wireless access for the browser, nav, maps, and streaming services. If people did not sign up to pay for those services, they wouldn't get them. Plain and simple. But Tesla always maintains their own broadband access to the car -- at NO COST TO THE OWNER for telemetry, software updates, service and maintenance, and other required services necessary to maintain a connection to the car for basic services.

They've always said there will be these two tiers of services. One you PAY FOR, and one you do not. So please, stop this nonsense about getting "something for nothing" and that since I'm getting these services for free, I AM REQUIRED to bend over and grab my ankles for Tesla to "send me updates" unannounced and without warning, leaving my car completely immobilized at at time when I might need it. Please, just stop.

The issue is that Tesla never got around to separating these two distinct services and charging people for them. They kind of half hearted tried to with "premium connectivity", but it's never really amounted to much. The one-year grace period expires next month and for a while it was a referral award. It's yet to be seen if they'll actually start charging people for it. The FAQ is still pretty vague: Frequently Asked Questions - Connectivity I suspect they'll decide for yet another year (it's been five years already) that it's more expensive to maintain a billing system, than it is to just pay the broadband bill for everyone for both tiers of service. But using one service they haven't figured out how to bill me for yet doesn't mean that I am giving tacit approval to screw me over with the other service they use for THEIR own benefit, not mine.

Just stop.

 

[sublimejackman]

Correlation is not causation. Correlation does not imply causation - Wikipedia



You must be really new here, because you keep harping on this one singular assertion. What you obviously don't know, and don't understand is that Tesla has always intended to charge people for broadband wireless access for the browser, nav, maps, and streaming services. If people did not sign up to pay for those services, they wouldn't get them. Plain and simple. But Tesla always maintains their own broadband access to the car -- at NO COST TO THE OWNER for telemetry, software updates, service and maintenance, and other required services necessary to maintain a connection to the car for basic services.

They've always said there will be these two tiers of services. One you PAY FOR, and one you do not. So please, stop this nonsense about getting "something for nothing" and that since I'm getting these services for free, I AM REQUIRED to bend over and grab my ankles for Tesla to "send me updates" unannounced and without warning, leaving my car completely immobilized at at time when I might need it. Please, just stop.

The issue is that Tesla never got around to separating these two distinct services and charging people for them. They kind of half hearted tried to with "premium connectivity", but it's never really amounted to much. The one-year grace period expires next month and for a while it was a referral award. It's yet to be seen if they'll actually start charging people for it. The FAQ is still pretty vague: Frequently Asked Questions - Connectivity I suspect they'll decide for yet another year (it's been five years already) that it's more expensive to maintain a billing system, than it is to just pay the broadband bill for everyone for both tiers of service.

Just stop.

Woah... Premium connectivity? Is that like a net neutrality thing?

We still seem to be talking past each other, my argument has nothing to do with money or "premium stuff." Just saying that (and I know talking about cost without money is a hard concept) in exchange for not paying with currency for certain ongoing services (LTE, Maps, music, etc...) you give Tesla access to certain data and the ability to update your vehicle's software as they see fit. In my analysis, this seems reasonable. Google Maps, up-to-date navigation and safety improvements cost MILLIONS of dollars a month. So Tesla gives you something and in exchange you give them something. In common law, we call this a "contract." Two or more parties agree on terms. As stated twice now, if you believe that Tesla, Inc has hacked your vehicle, you should immediately report it to your local authorities and the FBI.

 

[sublimejackman]

Can you provide more information on this service?