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Tesla Gigafactory
- Thread starter domenick
- Start date
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
I can see many solar panels, plus many storage batteries helping to address power factors and load shifting. All those wonderful solar things.
But...can the roof top array ever produce the power needed for the entire factory? I can see it taking a bite out of it, but I think the 4 floor factory can be consuming much more juice than can be collected on the roof.
Wont they still need to put up some wind turbines on the nearby hills and gather power from more surfaces than just this large roof?
But...can the roof top array ever produce the power needed for the entire factory? I can see it taking a bite out of it, but I think the 4 floor factory can be consuming much more juice than can be collected on the roof.
Wont they still need to put up some wind turbines on the nearby hills and gather power from more surfaces than just this large roof?
using an extremely rough estimate, it's around 5.5 million sq ft or roughly 511,000 sq meters roof so far
New aerial photos appear to show just how massive Tesla's Gigafactory is
sunlight is ~1kw/sq meter, efficiency is 16-20%, hours sunlight usable per day is around 5.5 or ~2,000/year
So, 511,000 x (160 -200watts) x 2,000 = between ~165 million kWh to 204 million kWh/yr
double that or more w/more roof, increase a bit if PV efficiency goes up
rough numbers tho, ok
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
OK - full collection of all sunlight on this one roof is a big number. 100 million kWh/yr +. Any rough guess as to how many kWh/yr the factory needs?
Well at a goal of 150 GWh of storage a year, if the cells leave the factory at 80% SOC, that is ~120 million kWh/yr ...
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I believe the original concept drawings for the factory showed wind turbines also. Don't know if these are still planned.
Gigafactory 1 - Wikipedia
Tesla intends to power the structure through a combination of on-site solar, wind and geo-thermal sources.[10]
and
In 2014 Navigant estimated 100 MW electricity delivery which could be supplied (on average) by nearby wind turbines and roof solar panels,[83] whereas a former Tesla logistics manager in 2016 estimated 300 MW to produce 35 GWh of battery capacity per year.[84]
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
And this is energy shipped out, which does not count the energy to produce the batteries.
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
So- 300 MW to produce the batteries. Help me with units...is 100 million kWh/yr + = o.1 MW? or did I miss the million multiplier? If my math is not corrupt - there is no way for the solar array to offset production power.
Ulmo
Active Member
"100 million k" has been bothering me ever since I started reading it 5 minutes ago.
100 million k = 100*10^6 * 10^3 = 100*10^(6+3) = 100*10^9 = 100 billion = 100 G.
As units (the only reason I say "as units" is that the precision in the following list is different (1,000 is more precise than 10^3, but equal precision to 1.000*10^3)):
- k=10^3=1000
- M=10^6=1,000,000
- G=10^9=1,000,000,000
- T=10^12=1,000,000,000,000
100 million kWh/yr is 100GWh/yr.
That's the easy part. The complicated part is the 300MW. Since there's no time unit, we have to add our own. A MWh is 1 MW for an hour. So, a 300MW factory uses 300MWh in an hour, which is the same as 300MW for an hour (MWh in an hour, MW for an hour). You can see the math from there: (300MWh*24*365.24)/yr.
So, ~2629728000000Wh/yr (with a precision close to 2 digits), or ~2.63TWh/yr.
You could also run the numbers per day, which is convenient since sun cycles daily. You'd have to adjust by clouds, seasons, and other stuff by understanding how electrical storage and diversity work. They'd need a lot of batteries. I wonder how much of their battery manufacturing process can provide for their battery smoothing; maybe the manufacturing has to be careful enough that it's none.
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1) Size of present roof is appx 5.5 million sq feet or 511,000 sq meters
2) Assume ~100% of roof covered with high end premium cells, non tracking fixed
3) Standard sunlight is 1,000 watts per sq meter or 1 kilowatt/sq m
4) 511,000 kilowatts incident sunlight, average per year
5) 511,000 x 0.21 x 1.105 (adjust for PV watts default of 19%_ = 118,606 kilowatt array
6) Using PVwatts with Latitude, 39.53, Longitude: -119.74, Sparks Nevada, USA PVWatts Calculator
7) (Using 21% efficient cells (as 23% is presently max) Solar Cells
8) 192,335,920 kWh/Year (figure 1)
9) If you tweak things, and 23% efficient instead of 21%, you can up it to 230,000,000 kWh/year
10) If you tweak things again and have 23% efficient and single axis tracking on the roof you can get over 310,000,000 kWh/year (figure 2)
11) Figure 1, fixed array, 21% efficient
Figure 2
2) Assume ~100% of roof covered with high end premium cells, non tracking fixed
3) Standard sunlight is 1,000 watts per sq meter or 1 kilowatt/sq m
4) 511,000 kilowatts incident sunlight, average per year
5) 511,000 x 0.21 x 1.105 (adjust for PV watts default of 19%_ = 118,606 kilowatt array
6) Using PVwatts with Latitude, 39.53, Longitude: -119.74, Sparks Nevada, USA PVWatts Calculator
7) (Using 21% efficient cells (as 23% is presently max) Solar Cells
8) 192,335,920 kWh/Year (figure 1)
9) If you tweak things, and 23% efficient instead of 21%, you can up it to 230,000,000 kWh/year
10) If you tweak things again and have 23% efficient and single axis tracking on the roof you can get over 310,000,000 kWh/year (figure 2)
11) Figure 1, fixed array, 21% efficient
1) Size of present roof is appx 5.5 million sq feet or 511,000 sq meters
2) Assume ~100% of roof covered with high end premium cells, non tracking fixed
3) Standard sunlight is 1,000 watts per sq meter or 1 kilowatt/sq m
4) 511,000 kilowatts incident sunlight, average per year
5) 511,000 x 0.21 x 1.105 (adjust for PV watts default of 19%_ = 118,606 kilowatt array
6) Using PVwatts with Latitude, 39.53, Longitude: -119.74, Sparks Nevada, USA PVWatts Calculator
7) (Using 21% efficient cells (as 23% is presently max) Solar Cells
8) 192,335,920 kWh/Year (figure 1)
9) If you tweak things, and 23% efficient instead of 21%, you can up it to 230,000,000 kWh/year
10) If you tweak things again and have 23% efficient and single axis tracking on the roof you can get over 310,000,000 kWh/year (figure 2)
11) Figure 1, fixed array, 21% efficient
View attachment 336226
View attachment 336227Figure 2
Cool,
If I split the array into east leaning and west leaning (75 degree) halves (59,303 kW each), I get ~122,000,000 kWh/year (63+59).
remember, if you use PV watts and premium cells, it defaults to 19% efficiency, standard cells deaults to 16% and thin film/amorphous ~10%. if you are using 21% efficient you multiply by 1.105, etc. If you look at pictures of roof, they look like they will tilt. incident light goes by the cosign of the angle, preferably at 90 degrees incident
Since it asked for system size in kW, isn't that post cell efficiency? (would impact array size, but not power).
Yah, the panels are tipped east/west, so I set it up as half power, 75 degree tilt (guess from photo) with one set at 90 one set at 270 azimuth. Not sure they will be actively tilted, there are those boxes at the high end, but they may just be junction boxes/ inverters. It would be cool if they were tilt motors...
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Unlikely that they tilt since the panels are slightly angled towards each other. If they actively tilted they would all face the same direction and track the sun as it moves.
Normally, yeah, but if the do have mechanisms that raises the high side, they can get more power out of the side that is facing the side. So start with the East panels tilted toward the sunrise. Then at noon they are at the flattest, toward the end of the day it raises them again to boost the West facing panels.
So a lower cost, lower profile, limited range tilt mechanism. Not saying they are doing that, but it seemed remotely possible after staring at the photo too long...
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
Dummy it down for me.. Seems like a full roof can produce 200-300 million kW in a year. And that it takes 300 MW [million kW] to produce 35 GW of batteries (no time unit, but presume annual). Now I am just missing the intended/actual battery production. Are they making 35 GW? or is this an ultimate potential?
So the Q? still is => can a full roof supply enough power to run the plant?
So the Q? still is => can a full roof supply enough power to run the plant?
Start by not mixing the units. KW is a unit of power delivery, KWh is a unit of delivered power. Think of it as speed (e.g. 100mph) versus distance traveled (e.g. 100 miles).
Based on the engineering.com reference in the wikipedia article: Can Tesla Power Its Gigafactory with Renewables Alone?
"The factory would consume 2400 MWh per day" - ~2,400,000 KWh per day (~876,000,000 kwh per year)
winfield100's math showed that the panels could only generate 300,000,000 kwh per year. So no, not enough.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I'll guess at least 600 GWh, perhaps more if the original estimate included a lot of wind energy that has a higher capacity factor than PV. Wind easily produces 3 kWh a year per rated watt, so a 100% wind source of 300 MW = 900 GWh annually.
I agree with the earlier math estimating 200 * 10^6 kWh = 200 GWh generation annually from the entire roof, so if the energy requirements are correct the roof can supply in the neighborhood of 2 - 3 parts of 9 required.
That actually amazes me considering how energy intensive this type of factory must be. Consider that residential homes can easily cover 1/4 of the roof with PV just for everyday living.
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