Tesla Gigafactory

[AZ Desert Driver]

Looks like VW is going to imitate the GF model for batteries:
VW Planning Its Own Battery Gigafactory With Help From SK Innovation

Of course, they are late to the game being 5 to 10 years behind Tesla.

And the VW battery is a pouch form, not a can (18650 or 2170). My drone pouch batteries always puffed up after a bit of use. I'm not confidant the "other guys" have learned that heat is an issue, cold is an issue, overcharging is an issue...etc. Perhaps they can learn from Panasonic, but some Germans are sufficiency hard headed that they cant learn from others.

 

[mspohr]

And the VW battery is a pouch form, not a can (18650 or 2170). My drone pouch batteries always puffed up after a bit of use. I'm not confidant the "other guys" have learned that heat is an issue, cold is an issue, overcharging is an issue...etc. Perhaps they can learn from Panasonic, but some Germans are sufficiency hard headed that they cant learn from others.

That's where Tesla's 10 year head start pays off. They've worked through a bunch of engineering challenges for EVs. VW and the others are just starting up the experience curve and will no doubt have a few issues to resolve along the way. In 10 years, they should have things worked out... if they're still in business.

 

[mongo]

Elon vision WAS to take in raw material and produce finished products. That is and was a stupid idea.

Only if you set up a senario where it doesn't make sense.

Successful manufacturing requires making decisions to maximize ROI. If a vendor is more efficient at processing raw materials used in battery cell production then Tesla loses if they chose to do the processing in-house.

In house can still be cost effective even if you are less efficient. You aren't paying for:
Transportation
Supplier mark up
Supplier warranty capture
Supplier overhead
Meeting with supplier for all phases of the project
Inventory overhead due to shipping channels
Plus you get all IP and can make changes as quickly as you want without miscommunication.

Further, Tesla is being more efficient than their suppliers and progressing all the time. Currently wire harnesses are outsourced, the new patent indicates they may be close to automating that. Seats are now in house and automated. Brakes and steering racks are left to suppliers. Cell manufacturing is a hybrid since it is in house by their supplier, minimizing overhead.

As Tesla's volume grows, I would be surprised if they brought more pieces in house (once volume matches tool capacity)

 

[JRP3]

Elon vision WAS to take in raw material and produce finished products. That is and was a stupid idea.

Actually it's not. The failure to understand that is your problem.

Successful manufacturing requires making decisions to maximize ROI. If a vendor is more efficient at processing raw materials used in battery cell production then Tesla loses if they chose to do the processing in-house.

What would make a vendor more efficient? Is it some magic which Tesla cannot recreate, or improve upon? Don't forget to factor in the cost savings of not paying for the profit of the vendor. I'm guessing Elon's acid trips are far more productive than your best lucid moments.

 

[mspohr]

Keeping it under your hat

Interesting article from The Economist about vertical integration... Discusses Tesla, Apple, Ford
In his 1926 book “Today and Tomorrow” Henry Ford wrote that vertical integration was the key to his success: “If you want it done right, do it yourself.” He claimed he could extract ore in Minnesota from his own mines, ship it to his River Rouge facility in Detroit and have it sitting as a Model T in a Chicago driveway—in no more than 84 hours.

 

[Buggle]

but some Germans are sufficiency hard headed that they cant learn from others.

um...

ah...

I think most of the rest of the world would have a slightly different take on this comment.

 

[wdolson]

Actually it's not. The failure to understand that is your problem.

What would make a vendor more efficient? Is it some magic which Tesla cannot recreate, or improve upon? Don't forget to factor in the cost savings of not paying for the profit of the vendor. I'm guessing Elon's acid trips are far more productive than your best lucid moments.

The belief that outsourcing is the key to success has been championed by bean counters with no imagination in the largest companies. It's a way of sloughing off responsibility to someone else if something goes wrong, but it isn't more efficient. If you're a small contractor making widgets for Ford and they don't work right, Ford is going to blame you, even if their specifications were wrong. Ford can afford to sue some suppliers out of business if necessary.

The dealership network is another way to spread the responsibility and risk. Car companies are able to move cars from the factory to dealers and they make money whether the car sells or not. If it sells, the dealer pays the factory in full, if it doesn't the dealer makes interest payments to the factory which is financing it until it does sell. If the car company makes a turkey, or the market goes soft for a short while, the dealers will start going out of business, but the car company has a buffer and they stay in business.

Large modern corporations are much more concerned about risk management than efficiency. Tesla is interested in making cars for as little as possible and are willing to take more risk doing it. So they are going for vertical integration.

 

[FlatSix911]

Tesla is going to widen their lead... Tesla is planning massive multi-billion investments in its gigafactories over the next 2 years

At the manufacturing level, Tesla shared some numbers.
They said that they plan to spend between $2.5 and 3 billion per year at Gigafactories 1, 2 and 3, and in “other infrastructure growth.

 

[GigaGrunt]

There’s a lot of incorrect info here, so let me clarify some things:
-GF1 is just outside Sparks, about 14 miles to be precise. There’s essentially nothing where it is, but is within the Sparks zip code.
-GF1 puts out battery packs for M3, drive units for 3, Powerwalls, Powerpacks. S/X battery packs are made in Fremont, and have always been made there.
-Panasonic produces the 2170 cells, and ‘ships’ them to Tesla within the building.
-Some Energy items utilize Samsung 2170 cells (different chemistry than Panasonic).
-Cells have a SOC of approx 30% when Tesla receives them.
-Battery packs leave with approx 30% charge, and once Pack is installed in vehicle, it gets its first ‘Supercharge’.
-Tesla employees get free charging on site. Many Clipper Creek L2 units, a lot more Destination Chargers, and approx 6 Superchargers. EVSE charging just recently got an upgraded lot as the expansion plans move forward.
-Building is 3 floors nearly everywhere. Only 1 area is 2 floors (taller 1st floor) due to equipment.

 

[wdolson]

The GF1 is sort of in a giant industrial/warehouse park. There are some large warehouses nearby like the Chewy.com warehouse, a PetSmart and Walmart warehouse and several others. Though the GF1 is sort of at the "end of the road" on the edge of the neighborhood. There are also a couple of towns called Femley and Wadsworth at the next exit off I-80. The GF1 is just about halfway between Sparks and those two towns (little more than wide spots in the road).

 

[Electroman]

is there any possibility of getting inside the factory premises for a quick tour, however limited it is? i will be in the Reno area sometime this month and wondering..

 

[Cosmacelf]

is there any possibility of getting inside the factory premises for a quick tour, however limited it is? i will be in the Reno area sometime this month and wondering..

Not likely. GF tours are hard to come by. Historically, they have been given to press and special guests. There was one huge tour given to Tesla owners about 6 months before batterynproduction started, but even that one was more of a catered party than a tour.

 

[Buggle]

is there any possibility of getting inside the factory premises for a quick tour, however limited it is? i will be in the Reno area sometime this month and wondering..

Tell them you're a YouTube guy.

 

[GigaGrunt]

The GF1 is sort of in a giant industrial/warehouse park. There are some large warehouses nearby like the Chewy.com warehouse, a PetSmart and Walmart warehouse and several others. Though the GF1 is sort of at the "end of the road" on the edge of the neighborhood. There are also a couple of towns called Femley and Wadsworth at the next exit off I-80. The GF1 is just about halfway between Sparks and those two towns (little more than wide spots in the road).

When I said essentially nothing around, I meant in terms of what most would consider a town. Theres warehouses, and a mining company (?), a gas station with a Port O Subs, Subway, a hidden Tesla Service Center, dentist office, Motel 6 and a poor excuse for a bar thats open for about 10 minutes a day. There's nothing for shopping or other retail businesses. Building a new restaurant to try and capture business from the 5000+ people who traverse this area weekly. Not much else off USA Parkway. Just past that exit you hit Wadsworth/Fernley, and if you continue on I-80, there's not much until you hit Salt Lake City.

 

[GigaGrunt]

is there any possibility of getting inside the factory premises for a quick tour, however limited it is? i will be in the Reno area sometime this month and wondering..

Zero chance. You won't even be able to get to the parking lot of GF1. Security at the gates will turn you away. Other than IR doing the tour, its unheard of. And even that tour is extremely limited.

 

[MP3Mike]

Zero chance. You won't even be able to get to the parking lot of GF1. Security at the gates will turn you away. Other than IR doing the tour, its unheard of. And even that tour is extremely limited.

They did offer tours to people who had referred purchasers: Tesla to start offering regular tours of Gigafactory 1, Panasonic to hold event/tour

And I have seen a couple people mention that they were able to take advantage of it.

 

[wdolson]

When I said essentially nothing around, I meant in terms of what most would consider a town. Theres warehouses, and a mining company (?), a gas station with a Port O Subs, Subway, a hidden Tesla Service Center, dentist office, Motel 6 and a poor excuse for a bar thats open for about 10 minutes a day. There's nothing for shopping or other retail businesses. Building a new restaurant to try and capture business from the 5000+ people who traverse this area weekly. Not much else off USA Parkway. Just past that exit you hit Wadsworth/Fernley, and if you continue on I-80, there's not much until you hit Salt Lake City.

In other words, it's much like the rest of rural Nevada.

 

[GigaGrunt]

They did offer tours to people who had referred purchasers: Tesla to start offering regular tours of Gigafactory 1, Panasonic to hold event/tour

And I have seen a couple people mention that they were able to take advantage of it.

These were done with Investor Relations and executive management. Was shut down early on.

 

[GigaGrunt]

In other words, it's much like the rest of rural Nevada.

Rural Northern Nevada...

 

[mspohr]

Rural Northern Nevada...

They have herds of wild horses roaming the area.