Tesla Gigafactory

[AZ Desert Driver]

GigaGrunt said 2170 cells from Panasonic are used exclusively in Model 3 battery packs with current production. All Energy products are fed with 2170 cells from Samsung (different chemistry). Most recently, LG boxes have begun showing up for testing. Plan is to use those in the ramp up of Energy products.

I had thought that Panasonic made ALL the batteries for Tesla - some overseas, some in Nevada - but that Tesla was not buying from
Samsung or LG. This suggests that battery cells are "interchangeable". I can buy a Duracell or an Energizer and either will work in my flashlight. Is this (becoming) true for car batteries and power-walls also?

 

[MP3Mike]

I had thought that Panasonic made ALL the batteries for Tesla - some overseas, some in Nevada - but that Tesla was not buying from
Samsung or LG. This suggests that battery cells are "interchangeable". I can buy a Duracell or an Energizer and either will work in my flashlight. Is this (becoming) true for car batteries and power-walls also?

Tesla has been buying storage batteries from Samsung for a while. (The South Australian project was the first public use of them.)

In any case they are manufactured to Tesla specs, they aren't just buying some random 2170 cells.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

I just watched a video comparing 6 brands of battery cells and Panasonic made "the worst" of the cells tested. Tesla is hitching their future to Panasonic's ability to make great batteries (in large quantities). Why would Panasonic make poor AA cells but great 2170 cells? Should my confidence be shaken?

 

[mongo]

I just watched a video comparing 6 brands of battery cells and Panasonic made "the worst" of the cells tested. Tesla is hitching their future to Panasonic's ability to make great batteries (in large quantities). Why would Panasonic make poor AA cells but great 2170 cells? Should my confidence be shaken?

Why would consumer grade mass market low margin AA cells have anything to do with Tesla specified 2170s?

 

[JRP3]

Should my confidence be shaken?

Only if you think Tesla is using AA carbon-zinc cells...

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

My arm-chair engineering says "if you make battery cans---C sized, D sized, AA sized or 2170 sized...you either make good cans or bad cans. If you make good cans, then that expertise flows into all your product line". So, when I heard Panasonic was on the bottom......

 

[mongo]

Only if you think Tesla is using AA carbon-zinc cells...

for the new 1.8kV pack?
1,200 cells: (a 9v is 6 cells internally)

 

[electracity]

We don't know that the storage 2170 are manufactured to Tesla's spec. We can say that they meet Tesla criteria for use in storage systems.

Tesla is always going to be looking for the best value in price performance. Whether that is exclusively using their own IP or leveraging off a vendors R&D isn't going to matter to senior management. Batteries cells are a means to an end, not a Tesla product.

 

[JRP3]

My arm-chair engineering says "if you make battery cans---C sized, D sized, AA sized or 2170 sized...you either make good cans or bad cans. If you make good cans, then that expertise flows into all your product line". So, when I heard Panasonic was on the bottom......

1. Cans are not cells.
2. A company can make different levels of products. The cells tested in that video were budget cells.
3. There is already plenty of long term high mileage evidence that Panasonic makes top quality cells for Tesla.

Come to your own conclusions, but you might want to re-calibrate your arm-chair engineering.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I recall seeing a large room where recently produced cell are stored to let them rest/take initial charge. How long do cells reside in the storage room? Do they ever catch on fire? How good are they at making their stuff?

From what I remember, cells fresh off the manufacturing line cure for 30 days before being charged and shipped. Yes indeed, a huge room with racks to the ceiling, tightly spaced.

 

[JRP3]

I believe the aging process takes 2 weeks.

 

[winfield100]

Only if you think Tesla is using AA carbon-zinc cells...

Mercedes uses those AA batteries
#SNL - Julia Louis-Dreyfus Does Commercial For Battery-Operated Mercedes AA Class Car

 

[wdolson]

I just watched a video comparing 6 brands of battery cells and Panasonic made "the worst" of the cells tested. Tesla is hitching their future to Panasonic's ability to make great batteries (in large quantities). Why would Panasonic make poor AA cells but great 2170 cells? Should my confidence be shaken?

They are comparing alkaline to carbon-zinc batteries at least in the case of the Panasonic cell. Alkaline have just about replaced carbon-zinc because they are better batteries for most uses.

 

[BluestarE3]

Mercedes uses those AA batteries
#SNL - Julia Louis-Dreyfus Does Commercial For Battery-Operated Mercedes AA Class Car

Yes, and you can "Supercharge" at any Costco store where they sell AA cells in bulk packaging.

EDIT: Actually, more like battery swap.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

My arm-chair engineering says "if you make battery cans---C sized, D sized, AA sized or 2170 sized...you either make good cans or bad cans. If you make good cans, then that expertise flows into all your product line". So, when I heard Panasonic was on the bottom......

ya know- I too disagree. This was sarcasm, snark, obvious error in thinking - I know that a company that makes one thing well does not necessarily make all things well.

 

[scaesare]

My arm-chair engineering says "if you make battery cans---C sized, D sized, AA sized or 2170 sized...you either make good cans or bad cans. If you make good cans, then that expertise flows into all your product line". So, when I heard Panasonic was on the bottom......

I've bought some manufacturer's high-end products that were stellar, while their lower-end products were crap.

Or a large conglomerate who has entirely separate product lines that share almost nothing in common.

I'd buy a Panasonic rechargeable cell in a snap... either their 18650/2170's or the consumer Eneloops. I wouldn't be interested in their stereos or TV's.

 

[Buggle]

I just watched a video comparing 6 brands of battery cells and Panasonic made "the worst" of the cells tested. Tesla is hitching their future to Panasonic's ability to make great batteries (in large quantities). Why would Panasonic make poor AA cells but great 2170 cells? Should my confidence be shaken?

Any particular company can be present in various markets with various products and various price and quality tiers. This information in and of itself is meaningless. Nike sells a $6 shirt at walmart along with an $50 MJ branded shirt in their own stores. There's nothing to say the $50 one sucls cause they're selling a cheapo shirt at walmart.

 

[GigaGrunt]

Funny how people watch a YouTube video and immediately their mind is made up...

-2170 cells from Panasonic don’t cure for 2 weeks or 30 days. If so, today’s manufacturing capability would be linked to production that happened weeks ago...A large room just holding cells in a cure state would be a huge waste of space and inventory. Engineering has advanced.
-2170 Panasonic cells for M3 production have a different chemistry makeup than those used for storage.
-2170 cells from Samsung/LG Chem are spec’d to Tesla criteria. They’re not consumer grade. Look no further than the South Australian project.
-All S/X batteries are 18650 made overseas.
-Every cell that is used in a Tesla product is tested prior to being introduced into manufacturing. Once modules are assembled, removing a cell is not an option.

 

[skitown]

I've bought some manufacturer's high-end products that were stellar, while their lower-end products were crap.

Or a large conglomerate who has entirely separate product lines that share almost nothing in common.

I'd buy a Panasonic rechargeable cell in a snap... either their 18650/2170's or the consumer Eneloops. I wouldn't be interested in their stereos or TV's.

FWIW I’ve had a Panasonic PT-AE900U home theater projector since 2006 - and it’s been outstanding. It’s getting a bit long in the tooth but I specifically would consider a Panasonic again.

 

[Sean Wagner]

-2170 cells from Panasonic don’t cure for 2 weeks or 30 days. If so, today’s manufacturing capability would be linked to production that happened weeks ago...A large room just holding cells in a cure state would be a huge waste of space and inventory. Engineering has advanced.

Very interested in your source or at least "timestamp" for this. Somewhere in the very back of my brain I sense the echo of credible, contradictory information.

Edit: just realized your moniker here is GigaGrunt. Interesting!