Tesla got the worst score in the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey

[GZDongles]

I read the J.D. Powers report. You need to look it up and read also. They surveyed around 2100 owners by telelphone In their evaluation. Powers had no criticism with the electric engine and the drive. Their grading included paint problems, air noise, vibration, and something else which I paid no attention to. I cruised the internet and found all kinds of car magazines and evaluations and none of them come close to comparison to J.D. Powers. You are defending a questionable report, and if you would take the time to do some research you might have a different opinion. Yes, Toyota is rated number one...do some research.
U.S. News and World Report for 2020 Best Car Rankings
Motor Trend
World Car Awards 2020
Edmonds New Car
Car Indingo.com
Consumer Reports New Cars
Best Car Reviews

Just a few of many more out there on the net.

With that huge J.D. Powers survey of 2100 owners out of ultra thousands, your belief in its accuracy is most assuring. I'm sure you went on to the sites I offered and did some reading. I'm not backing up anything against you and J.D. Powers because between you and the Powers survey, how can anyone argue against your logic and overwhelming proof. Its like sitting at the feet of Scorates. You just need to hurry up and sell that Tesla because J.D. Powers shows your car is the worst of the lot.

Enough with the hyperbole! Garbage like this makes the forums an intolerable place sometime. Argue all you want about the relative merits or not of the survey (which is why I posted it in the first place), but your personal attacks and extremely poor argumentative style have no place here.

If you don't agree with the JD Power methodology, that's fine. As others far more knowledgeable than me have pointed out in this thread, there are certainly issues with it as well as misunderstandings about the scope and purpose of the survey. However, all of your criticisms about methodology apply equally to all OEMs. You don't think other OEMs are taking an equal hit from infotainment issues?

As for the 2,100 respondents, that's how surveys work! Do you think an organization that is devoted to surveys isn't capable and determining the sample size necessary to have representative results? I would expect any biases from sample size or people that chose to complete the survey being inherently more unsatisfied to be true across all manufacturers, not just Tesla.

Finally, if you bothered to read the survey, no one is claiming that this is a survey of satisfaction, but only of what it claims to include, initial quality!

Again, the point of me posting this wasn't to start a typical TMC argument between the apologists and the detractors (sorry to use the pejorative names for both groups), but to discuss the survey results and how Tesla may change and improve going forward. One thing is clear, regardless of your personal beliefs about the survey, it made headlines. You can shout into the wind all you want about the survey isn't valid or is biased, but you can be sure that for better or worse, JD Power is one data point that a segment of buyers will look at to make their future purchase decision. This isn't about the satisfaction of current buyers, it's about the growth of Tesla beyond a core group of buyers that are already enthusiastic about the environmental implications or the tech. The vast majority of car buyers are not going to spend time on a forum to get input and do research before buying a car. Tesla needs to do better to continue to grow. By the way, for those of you that care about the stock (I no longer own shares so I do not) the current stock price is predicated on continued grow. That means to maintain the current stock price, Tesla has to keep showing growth, which means expanding their market share in what will be a down one to two years for high prices cars. I just wish we as a community didn't have to take everything so personally. Criticism of the company that made my car isn't a criticism of me, and we would have a lot more constructive and interesting conversations on here if we all remembered that.

 

[ColonelRHS]

DZDongles You have a nice day. You made some interesting points.

 

[Shark2222]

Responses in CAPS

If you read the analysis of how J. D Power scored you will see that they did not factor in the electric engine or drive. They did not score the computer. NOT TRUE AT ALL. POWER SPECIFICALLY SAID OWNERS REPORTED FEW PROBLEMS IN THESE AREAS.

They concentrated on gaps in panels, paint problems, wind noise, and quality issues. NO, THE OWNERS WERE THE ONES WHO FOCUSED ON THESE AREAS.

They even got off on the fire issues that happened to some 2012 models. 2012 MODELS WERE NOT INCLUDED IN THE SURVEY THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD

But out of 200 plus cars...they put Tesla next to dead last. Now a telephone survey of 2100 people, out of about 100,000 has to have a wide margin of error. WRONG AGAIN, THE MARGIN IS EASILY CALCULABLE.

What burns me about Powers is that his entire evaluation does not make sense and I tried to urge others to seek out Automotive reports and writers and see how they score cars. AGAIN, YOU DO'T UNDERSTAND THE SURVEY. THE VAST MAJORITY OF WRITERS SCORE CARS SUBJECTIVELY. HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SURVEY BEING DISCUSSED, WHICH IS LIMITED TO COMPLAINTS AND PROBLEMS REPORTED BY OWNERS IN THE FIRST 90 DAYS. TESLAS MIGHT BE THE MOST BEAUTIFUL AS WELL AS TECHNICALLY ADVANCED CARS IN THE WORLD AND MIGHT HAVE THE HAPPIEST OWNERS IN THE WORLD, BUT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SURVEY.

Now I do not intend to debate this issue any longer. Life is to short and there are too many other things to occupy my time. If you believe their report..fine....does not bother me and that is your right. SOUNDS LIKE AN ADMISSION OF DEFEAT

 

[ColonelRHS]

Shark222...you give yourself to much credit.

 

[Shark2222]

Enough with the hyperbole! Garbage like this makes the forums an intolerable place sometime. Argue all you want about the relative merits or not of the survey (which is why I posted it in the first place), but your personal attacks and extremely poor argumentative style have no place here.

If you don't agree with the JD Power methodology, that's fine. As others far more knowledgeable than me have pointed out in this thread, there are certainly issues with it as well as misunderstandings about the scope and purpose of the survey. However, all of your criticisms about methodology apply equally to all OEMs. You don't think other OEMs are taking an equal hit from infotainment issues?

As for the 2,100 respondents, that's how surveys work! Do you think an organization that is devoted to surveys isn't capable and determining the sample size necessary to have representative results? I would expect any biases from sample size or people that chose to complete the survey being inherently more unsatisfied to be true across all manufacturers, not just Tesla.

Finally, if you bothered to read the survey, no one is claiming that this is a survey of satisfaction, but only of what it claims to include, initial quality!

Again, the point of me posting this wasn't to start a typical TMC argument between the apologists and the detractors (sorry to use the pejorative names for both groups), but to discuss the survey results and how Tesla may change and improve going forward. One thing is clear, regardless of your personal beliefs about the survey, it made headlines. You can shout into the wind all you want about the survey isn't valid or is biased, but you can be sure that for better or worse, JD Power is one data point that a segment of buyers will look at to make their future purchase decision. This isn't about the satisfaction of current buyers, it's about the growth of Tesla beyond a core group of buyers that are already enthusiastic about the environmental implications or the tech. The vast majority of car buyers are not going to spend time on a forum to get input and do research before buying a car. Tesla needs to do better to continue to grow. By the way, for those of you that care about the stock (I no longer own shares so I do not) the current stock price is predicated on continued grow. That means to maintain the current stock price, Tesla has to keep showing growth, which means expanding their market share in what will be a down one to two years for high prices cars. I just wish we as a community didn't have to take everything so personally. Criticism of the company that made my car isn't a criticism of me, and we would have a lot more constructive and interesting conversations on here if we all remembered that.

Very very well said.

 

[CertLive]

I think JD focused on the issues that matter when you pickup your new car. Tesla may redefine cars in general and there is no doubt I love my model 3 but you cant turn a blind eye to this forum or a report that backs up the main issues that plague new users. Also as stated above, on their 3rd Tesla and still... So that speaks volumes first Tesla has had that much of a positive effect that you want to come back and two really bad QC that a 3rd customer experience is still not smooth. I think this report replicates exactly what is going on in the real world. Nothing to do with share price, love or hate Tesla but cold facts of production issues dating back years to the point of now being in the Y. Like always a company has a chance to right the wrongs but certainly Tesla does not have the right to set a new low in fit and finish and then keep passing them onto customers expecting a good new car experience like the ones displayed on the website. Ask a proper question like... Why are they still turning up to customers like this and why is no-one checking the car over before I get it? JD can then do another report like this is 6 months and compare. That T badge should mean quality as well is innovation. One day I hope so!

 

[Fernand]

@CertLive, some useful words there! Blind eye turned,
to plague, really bad QC, cold facts, the new low.

My "no-one" was a big girl with tats, out in my driveway,
she did the 360 walk-around and said "looks good to me".

And by Gawd, she was right. Except a 1" thin line of
sealer on the back window that came off with a razor
blade, courtesy of Michael at the Berkeley Service
Center. I got the feeling it's his favorite magic trick.
I thought it was a crack, so of course I was clapping.

I'm going for a drive before something else goes
wrong, goes wrong, goes wrong, goes wrong.
.

 

[GZDongles]

I hate to revive a dead thread, but I wanted to give a quick update on my own quality anecdote since I'm the one that started this!

My initial delivery experience was pretty much flawless. Aparently the paperwork on two of the forms I signed had the incorrect VIN. That's a bit annoying, but I obviously should have checked everything before I signed it, so that's on me.

Since delivery I have had three issues come up with the car:

1. The rear driver side window has deep scratches in it. They are very hard to see in bright sunlight, so I didn't notice them when I picked up the car. I contacted someone at the Cleveland delivery center and they said they'd put me in touch with someone to see if they'll cover it under warranty.
2. The plastic trim under the rocker panel on the passenger side is sagging. It looks like one of the clips is broken. This seems like it should be covered under warranty.
3. The backup camera is just showing a black screen now (but the two repeater cameras work fine).

So, while none of these issues are deal breakers and I still love the car, it's easy to see how Tesla got the JDP score they did. If everyone had the same experience I did, that would be a score of 300 issues per 100 vehicles. Again, nothing here that would want to make me return the car, but clearly all three of these issues are valid things that should be reported on the survey.

 

[Electroman]

I hate to revive a dead thread, but I wanted to give a quick update on my own quality anecdote since I'm the one that started this!

My initial delivery experience was pretty much flawless. Aparently the paperwork on two of the forms I signed had the incorrect VIN. That's a bit annoying, but I obviously should have checked everything before I signed it, so that's on me.

Since delivery I have had three issues come up with the car:

1. The rear driver side window has deep scratches in it. They are very hard to see in bright sunlight, so I didn't notice them when I picked up the car. I contacted someone at the Cleveland delivery center and they said they'd put me in touch with someone to see if they'll cover it under warranty.
2. The plastic trim under the rocker panel on the passenger side is sagging. It looks like one of the clips is broken. This seems like it should be covered under warranty.
3. The backup camera is just showing a black screen now (but the two repeater cameras work fine).

So, while none of these issues are deal breakers and I still love the car, it's easy to see how Tesla got the JDP score they did. If everyone had the same experience I did, that would be a score of 300 issues per 100 vehicles. Again, nothing here that would want to make me return the car, but clearly all three of these issues are valid things that should be reported on the survey.

But here is the problem - How would these cosmetic issues make a car unreliable?

 

[GZDongles]

But here is the problem - How would these cosmetic issues make a car unreliable?

Not sure about others in the thread, but I haven't been talking about reliability. I was just pointing out that it's a bit funny that I posted this thread shortly after delivery when I had no issues, and now my experience now lines up pretty well with the average owner per the JDP survey since I have three issues that will need to be addressed by a service center.

It doesn't change my overall perception of the car, but I do think the survey is largely accurate.

 

[Fernand]

@GZDongles try resetting the screen computer, and why not the whole car while you're at it, and see if that clears the camera issue. I had a camera problem that cleared that way and never came back.

On the window check if it's really scratches. I had a fine line of the sealer they use around the glass, it looked like a scratch, and that came off with a razor blade at the SC.

I'm sure they'll fix that clip, but look if it isn't just a matter of popping the cover back on on.

Best success, enjoy the car!
.

 

[Fernand]

Tesla owners get very "anal compulsive" about their cars. For many this is an expensive car, and once they start really zeroing in, looking for imperfections, they can always find some. I started looking at panel line-up after hanging out here - it would never have occurred to me on another car. I was thinking of bringing out a slide micrometer to check the gaps ... and then I started laughing at myself.
.

 

[Electroman]

and once they start really zeroing in, looking for imperfections, they can always find some. I started looking at panel line-up after hanging out here - it would never have occurred to me on another car. I was thinking of bringing out a slide micrometer to check the gaps ... and then I started laughing at myself