Tesla in Australia

[danger95]

Agree Spentan. Ive been following this thread for ages but thought I would join in.

Having driven an 'S' twice in the states (one 60, one P85) over the last 2 years I can safely say you will all be happy you waited for this amazing car.

I'm res #25 and been waiting patiently for 23 months now. My thoughts on Tesla not mentioning Aus in the earnings call is simple, they have announced pricing and approx. ship dates in other RHD markets so are obliged to mention them in the call, our turn will come - hopefully not too much longer!

 

[timpoo]

Agree Spentan. Ive been following this thread for ages but thought I would join in.

Having driven an 'S' twice in the states (one 60, one P85) over the last 2 years I can safely say you will all be happy you waited for this amazing car.

I'm res #25 and been waiting patiently for 23 months now. My thoughts on Tesla not mentioning Aus in the earnings call is simple, they have announced pricing and approx. ship dates in other RHD markets so are obliged to mention them in the call, our turn will come - hopefully not too much longer!

Hi danger95 - what do you think of the difference between 60 and 85? Range is not a huge issue for me, I'm mainly thinking of the performance aspect. I can probably afford to get a 60, but 85 (with the options) would be stretching me a lot financially. If range isn't an issue do you think the performance is very noticeable in a real world scenario?

 

[heosat]

Hi danger95 - what do you think of the difference between 60 and 85? Range is not a huge issue for me, I'm mainly thinking of the performance aspect. I can probably afford to get a 60, but 85 (with the options) would be stretching me a lot financially. If range isn't an issue do you think the performance is very noticeable in a real world scenario?

If I may weigh in, the big difference is that the extra performance makes the car feel lighter. Both cars still have instantaneous torque but the 85, and in particular the P85, move effortlessly.

 

[gizmonty]

If I may weigh in, the big difference is that the extra performance makes the car feel lighter. Both cars still have instantaneous torque but the 85, and in particular the P85, move effortlessly.

Does anyone know if the P85 can be made to 'simulate' an 85 or a 60 in a test-drive? Presumably some sort of software limitation could alter the performance to do this, but have Tesla actually made this possible? It would be a very handy way of comparing things. Personally I'd love a P85, but the price may be too high. It would be nice to test an 85 to see if I mind the difference, but it looks like the range of vehicles to test-drive will be very limited here for some time.

 

[spentan]

If I was in Australia I'd prob get a 60. Considering I'd be living in perth and it'd be a waste getting the 85 (in terms of range).

Though I enjoy my p85 so I dunno haha

 

[timpoo]

Does anyone know if the P85 can be made to 'simulate' an 85 or a 60 in a test-drive? Presumably some sort of software limitation could alter the performance to do this, but have Tesla actually made this possible? It would be a very handy way of comparing things. Personally I'd love a P85, but the price may be too high. It would be nice to test an 85 to see if I mind the difference, but it looks like the range of vehicles to test-drive will be very limited here for some time.

Hi Gizmonty I'm not sure which city you're in, but if you're in Melbourne the first demo car will be a P85+, followed by a P85 a few weeks after that.

I personally think they should have an S60 here, because the P85 would set the expectations way too high...but that's just my opinion.

 

[danger95]

Hi danger95 - what do you think of the difference between 60 and 85? Range is not a huge issue for me, I'm mainly thinking of the performance aspect. I can probably afford to get a 60, but 85 (with the options) would be stretching me a lot financially. If range isn't an issue do you think the performance is very noticeable in a real world scenario?

This is far from scientific because there was 12 months between driving the 60 and the P85. Even the 60 feels like a seriously fast car, with such little lag in acceleration even though it is down on power and torque compared to the P85. When I tested the 60, my renter was a MB E350 - 0-60mph in 6.1 seconds, so no slouch. Once I got back in it after driving the S it felt like an old banger, rattly, slow as a wet week.

Personally I don't think I need to go to a P85, my choice will be between the 60 and 85, purely for range not performance - I'm not after a supercar, just something that is satisfying to drive. My current car is 0-100 in 5.7secs but the 60 felt way faster because of the silent/linear acceleration.

Having said all that, the P85 was *amazing* and anyone who wants to go that way will never be disappointed.

Don't know if this helps anyone?

 

[timpoo]

This is far from scientific because there was 12 months between driving the 60 and the P85. Even the 60 feels like a seriously fast car, with such little lag in acceleration even though it is down on power and torque compared to the P85. When I tested the 60, my renter was a MB E350 - 0-60mph in 6.1 seconds, so no slouch. Once I got back in it after driving the S it felt like an old banger, rattly, slow as a wet week.

Personally I don't think I need to go to a P85, my choice will be between the 60 and 85, purely for range not performance - I'm not after a supercar, just something that is satisfying to drive. My current car is 0-100 in 5.7secs but the 60 felt way faster because of the silent/linear acceleration.

Having said all that, the P85 was *amazing* and anyone who wants to go that way will never be disappointed.

Don't know if this helps anyone?

It definitely helps thanks.

I think there's plenty of time for Tesla to come out with a genuine electric supercar - something to rival the Nissan GT-R with a sub 3.0 sec 0-100, so I can probably wait for that. Maybe will just get an S60 fully optioned out for now, so I don't have to skimp on things like audio package and dual chargers...

 

[timpoo]

Another useless pricing post - just a rant about our stupid taxes. Based on HKD pricing (where freight costs are costed in), I have done an approximate costing on the following specs: (metallic, pano, leather, carbon, cyclone wheels, dual chargers, wall charger, tech, parking, sound, parcel)

S60 = $99,000 AUD before taxes, $124,907.50 after taxes
S85 = $110,000 AUD before taxes, $141,427.50 after taxes (compared to S60 - $11,000 more before taxes, $16,520 more after taxes)
P85 = $124,000 AUD before taxes, $162.447.50 after taxes (compared to S60 - $25,000 more before taxes, $37,540 more after taxes; compared to S85 - $14,000 before taxes, $21,020 more after taxes)

This is what happens when you put tax on tax, instead of calculating separately...I just can't stand it ><

 

[Dborn]

I mentioned a figure of around $145 to Stone for the signature which is fully loaded minus the glass roof. He thought i was in the ball park so, Timpoo, you are probably also within the ball park. That accords with what Jerome told me a few weeks ago, also. That was where my figure came from. It would be nice to have the official figure though. Then at least we can place the order and get on the production queue. Having seen the car, i just want to get it already. It is definitely going to turn heads. It is MUCH better than the photos!!:biggrin:

 

[Lerxt]

FFS, all you ever do is come in here and bag Australia. Piss off back to your own forum.

I would suggest that if you are frustrated or don't like what you read play the ball not the man.

As I was saying, it's a shame that Australia is so expensive for everything including Model S and the government is hostile to the environment because the effect of that is low demand and a lower priority. I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

[heosat]

I mentioned a figure of around $145 to Stone for the signature which is fully loaded minus the glass roof. He thought i was in the ball park so, Timpoo, you are probably also within the ball park. That accords with what Jerome told me a few weeks ago, also. That was where my figure came from. It would be nice to have the official figure though. Then at least we can place the order and get on the production queue. Having seen the car, i just want to get it already. It is definitely going to turn heads. It is MUCH better than the photos!!:biggrin:

If you want to turn heads, don't get brown.

 

[Sluggabed]

Another useless pricing post - just a rant about our stupid taxes. Based on HKD pricing (where freight costs are costed in), I have done an approximate costing on the following specs: (metallic, pano, leather, carbon, cyclone wheels, dual chargers, wall charger, tech, parking, sound, parcel)

S60 = $99,000 AUD before taxes, $124,907.50 after taxes
S85 = $110,000 AUD before taxes, $141,427.50 after taxes (compared to S60 - $11,000 more before taxes, $16,520 more after taxes)
P85 = $124,000 AUD before taxes, $162.447.50 after taxes (compared to S60 - $25,000 more before taxes, $37,540 more after taxes; compared to S85 - $14,000 before taxes, $21,020 more after taxes)

This is what happens when you put tax on tax, instead of calculating separately...I just can't stand it ><

I'm right there with you, Oz tax does my head in and the chance of things changing are zero. Wish I had the option to move to the US, would've happened years ago.
There's also the very real chance that this car could quite quickly become a $300k car if the Aussie dollar takes a dump, those compounding taxes add up REAL fast.

 

[Dborn]

I'm right there with you, Oz tax does my head in and the chance of things changing are zero. Wish I had the option to move to the US, would've happened years ago.
There's also the very real chance that this car could quite quickly become a $300k car if the Aussie dollar takes a dump, those compounding taxes add up REAL fast.

All the more urgency to place a confirmed order ASAP.

 

[Tasdevil]

Is there a need for the government to tax cars so hard now that there's basically no car manufacturing here to protect anyway?

Any chances of taxing on cars to drop in the new budget?
(As you can probably tell I don't follow politics)

 

[Dborn]

Is there a need for the government to tax cars so hard now that there's basically no car manufacturing here to protect anyway?

Any chances of taxing on cars to drop in the new budget?
(As you can probably tell I don't follow politics)

you do know how much hope a snowball has of surviving in hell, don't you. I'd say we have about the same chance of getting car taxes down here. Great cash cow as is petrol.

 

[Tasdevil]

you do know how much hope a snowball has of surviving in hell, don't you. I'd say we have about the same chance of getting car taxes down here. Great cash cow as is petrol.

But if we don't have Australian owned oil companies and we do have Australian owned electrical energy supplier. It only makes sense to try and keep the money local and circulation a bit more...
(See this is why I don't follow politics, nothing they do makes sense to me)

 

[TesAus]

you do know how much hope a snowball has of surviving in hell, don't you. I'd say we have about the same chance of getting car taxes down here. Great cash cow as is petrol.

Talking of cash cows the proposal to increase fuel duty and perhaps reinstate indexation on fuel duty might at least help with making the case for EVs to the man in the street by the time Gen III cars come around?

 

[Mark E]

Another useless pricing post - just a rant about our stupid taxes. Based on HKD pricing (where freight costs are costed in), I have done an approximate costing on the following specs: (metallic, pano, leather, carbon, cyclone wheels, dual chargers, wall charger, tech, parking, sound, parcel)

S60 = $99,000 AUD before taxes, $124,907.50 after taxes
S85 = $110,000 AUD before taxes, $141,427.50 after taxes (compared to S60 - $11,000 more before taxes, $16,520 more after taxes)
P85 = $124,000 AUD before taxes, $162.447.50 after taxes (compared to S60 - $25,000 more before taxes, $37,540 more after taxes; compared to S85 - $14,000 before taxes, $21,020 more after taxes)

This is what happens when you put tax on tax, instead of calculating separately...I just can't stand it ><

If you want to change it, make an appointment to meet your federal and state MPs. I did. Point out to the that there is inequity in the current LCT system since with an EV you pay for the batteries up front, whereas with an ICE you pay for the car and then buy the fuel. Effectively with the EV you are paying LCT on the fuel. Every $1 over the LCT threshold correlates to $1.52 once the GST & stamp duty are applied.

Tailor your objections to suit the person you are talking to, but I have pointed out to my liberal MPs that the EV helps our independence from imported oil, and can be powered from completely local sources, either renewable or fossil fuelled, i.e. coal.

There is also a strong argument for fairness when it comes to business use for EVs vs ICE, and a precedent set. If you calculate the amount that can be claimed back for business use between an EV and an ICE, you will find that the EV is disadvantaged by around $20k over 4 years. The LCT threshold for cars is $60,316.00. The fuel-efficient "green" car LCT Threshold remains unchanged at $75,375.00. If you crunch the numbers you will see that the claim back is very close between the two if you use a 15 l/100 v8 and a 7 l/100 Hybrid. You can easily argue that the LCT threshold for an EV should be $95k to maintain parity, since the car is initially more expensive, but cheaper to operate.

If you don't complain and put up a defendable argument, then it's hard to complain when nothing changes. I have also reached out to the NRMA, I'd strongly suggest that you all do the same to any motoring club that you belong to - i.e. RAA etc.

We are not necessarily asking for anything other than fairness - although you could argue that there should be encouragements for EVs, like the US $7500 tax credit, use of transit lanes, exemption from some taxes - e.g. stamp duty reductions etc.

 

[MDK]

Simon Hackett wrote an article about this very topic on his blog today: http://simonhackett.com/2014/05/09/ev-and-lct/
I don't know if he's lurking here (Hello!) but it's obviously something that affects all of us.

edited to add: I love the picture of the Model-S RHD dash headlining his blog. Looks like it's from the Blue P85+ you lucky Sydneysiders have been able to see in person.