Tesla in deal with Daimler

[DisneylandIsHome]

Whole Set?

I hope the Smart ED isn't Bluestar. If so, I'll have to settle for a roadster and sedan rather than the whole Tesla set.

 

[malcolm]

I hope the Smart ED isn't Bluestar. If so, I'll have to settle for a roadster and sedan rather than the whole Tesla set.

How about Bluestar mule?

 

[dpeilow]

Also, $35k for a Smart is a bit steep. Not the practical car for the masses, me thinks...

This is something else.

 

[TEG]

'Smartie' IS at the party.

I think we basically saw this one coming for a while.
It is still good news, but not the huge deal we keep hoping for.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Also, $35k for a Smart is a bit steep. Not the practical car for the masses, me thinks...

This is something else.

Yeah I don't feel this is the practical Bluestar. I expect something like a small 4 door hatchback like the Honda Fit, which is infinitely more practical than a Smart for not much more.

Jalopnik says it'll cost $49,900. I don't really trust their reporting, doesn't make much sense to charge that much:
http://jalopnik.com/5130390/smart-ev-to-cost-49900-feature-tesla+built-battery-packs

 

[rsquared99]

Jalopnic said "Oops".

 

[graham]

Forbes: Tesla developing electric Smart cars with Daimler - Forbes.com

Is reporting that the car will be available late this year:

Daimler spokeswoman Julia Engelhardt confirmed the electric vehicle will be available in late 2009 but didn't provide any other details.

And apparently will be available for lease (so I assume not for sale?)

CEO Elon Musk said his San Carlos, Calif.-based electric carmaker has been working with Daimler since late 2007 to produce the vehicles for lease customers.

This article claims it is only the battery, not the entire drive train:
Greentech Media | Tesla to Build Battery Pack for Daimler

Tesla's spokeswoman told me this morning that "we have a deal to build powertrains for Daimler," but she has since called back to say that Tesla is not building the entire powertrain but only the battery pack and charger.

The deal is to build the components for 1,000 Smart cars within two years, said Tesla spokeswoman Rachel Konrad.

This Reuters article talks a little about this deal vs the Evonik:
AUTOSHOW-UPDATE 2-Tesla to supply battery for electric Smart | Markets | Reuters

December, Daimler, the maker of the Mercedes luxury line, bought a 49-percent stake in Evonik's [RUHR.UL] lithium-ion battery unit.

But Englehardt said it would take time to develop Daimler's own in-house battery technology. In the meantime, she said, Daimler engineers had determined that Tesla had the best available technology for the Smart.

So it seems like:
1) This is for the ForTwo, not some future Smart car
2) Short term lease, not for sale
3) And probably a short-term deal (although it may end up being a bigger deal than the initial 2-year 1000 car one) and one more for Tesla to drum up more clients than for Smart to use ongoing...

 

[TEG]

By some accounts, the Smart's biggest shortcomings are:

#1: Lethargic engine
#2: Poor shifting transmission
#3: Cramped engine compartment only able to house small components.

So, this is a very suitable vehicle for an eMotor "upgrade"...

 

[JRP3]

#3: Cramped engine compartment only able to house small components.

So, this is a very suitable vehicle for an eMotor "upgrade"...

That also doesn't leave much room for batteries, unless they can spread out the pack under the floor.

 

[Joseph]

"That also doesn't leave much room for batteries, unless they can spread out the pack under the floor."

It is a tall car, so maybe it can work out.

 

[graham]

Ah... and the circle of life is complete:

AUTOSHOW-INTERVIEW-Tesla may use Evonik battery cell widely | Markets | Reuters

Tesla founder and Chief Executive Elon Musk told Reuters at the Detroit Auto Show that the Smart deal could extend to Tesla using Evonik's cells for its own Roadster and other models.

Tesla had recently signed a second supply contract with an unidentified Japanese battery cell maker to get dual sourcing on the battery cells, he said.

"There's a good chance we may use their (Evonik's) cells," Musk, also founder of PayPal, said. "If they are superior to what we are using now, we would hope to use them broadly."

mods: does this go in the Daimler discussion? The battery discussion? I get so confused!

 

[doug]

Moderators Note: Now that this has been officially announced, to clear up confusion as to where to post, I've merged the few "Daimler deal" related threads. I've also left permanent redirects, so hopefully you don't get lost when looking for an old thread.

It's interesting to skim back and see how this topic evolved. See also this other thread that might have hinted about the deal a couple months early.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/news-articles-events/1102-daimler-battery-tech-breakthrough.html

 

[doug]

Daimler only planning to use Tesla batteries for first 1,000 smart eds - AutoblogGreen

Tesla Deal Helps Daimler "Bridge" Its Battery Gap | Autopia from Wired.com

Daimler tapped Tesla Motors for the batteries it needs to get the Smart EV program rolling, but it appears the German automaker will use its own batteries in production models.

Tesla founder Elon Musk said Tuesday his company would provide lithium ion battery packs and chargers to Daimler, which plans to begin producing the small electric car by year's end. Musk made it clear the deal is for 1,000 batteries and said, "If the 1,000-vehicle fleet is successful and the economics make sense and the product is compelling, that will expand to tens of thousands of vehicles per year," he said.

If Daimler produces that many Smart electric cars, it won't be using Tesla's batteries.

"Mr. Musk was right about the 1,000 batteries," Daimler spokesman Pitt Moos told Wired.com in an email received today. "As we will step up volumes, we'll use our own batteries currently under development."

 

[Joseph]

"Mr. Musk was right about the 1,000 batteries," Daimler spokesman Pitt Moos told Wired.com in an email received today. "As we will step up volumes, we'll use our own batteries currently under development."

Ouch!

But once these "smart eds" are on the road, surely this should signal other automakers to take Tesla more seriously as a supplier.

 

[TEG]

Yep, and manufacturers aren't exactly in the habit of telling their suppliers that they are a "shoe-in" for a long term deal. After the first 1000 they might want to negotiate a new contract, and suggesting that they may go elsewhere could make the terms more attractive.

 

[dpeilow]

Suggesting they might go elsewhere is one thing, but if a company wants to go in house...

 

[Palpatine]

Suggesting they might go elsewhere is one thing, but if a company wants to go in house...

I am sure they would like to go in house for batteries.
But doing it sucessfully is another matter entirely. Tesla currently has the best technology for a reason. They have been working on it for 4 or 5 years.

There are many companies (Chrysler, Ford, Daimler, etc) out there that are playing catch-up with EVs. They don't have 5 years to figure this out. They need to buy some off the shelf technology to get a product produced by 2011 or 2012.

The easiest way to do that is to buy the Tesla EV technology that Musk is offering to license or sell.

I am sure that Tesla Motors will get a few major buyers for battery systems or whatever it is that Tesla is willing to share with competitors.

Daimler doing this deal for 1,000 Smart EDs is a great advertisement for Tesla to other car manufacturers.

 

[JRP3]

Do we know any specifications for the Evonik batteries?
This is all I've found so far:
CSIRO working with Evonik to improve battery technology (Partnership)
Daimler, Evonik go for automotive lithium-ion batteries

 

[malcolm]

Supplying components for 1000 cars for Daimler is a huge coup for Tesla. Three years ago they were still in stealth mode. Obviously if they intend to stay in the powertrain business they'll have to ensure their battery system remains best-in-breed.

 

[graham]

There is nothing to say that "both" Tesla and Evonik won't end up as suppliers in the future. Evonik making the cells (which Tesla does not produce on its own anyway) but Tesla still providing the controller and whatnot.

There is a good chance that Tesla will persist in some fashion beyond the original 1000 delivered. And there is an equally good chance that this initial 1000 car deal will be high profile enough to drum up more business with other companies.