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Tesla introduces time-of-day Supercharger rates at select locations

Feathermerchan

Active Member
Sep 21, 2018
1,198
994
Euless, Tx
10am to 7pm includes noon.
Rates are classically set by generation cost because rates pay for generation mostly. Cost can follow load but not necessarily so.
Can you see the hourly pricing on the Ca grid?
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,552
6,363
Los Altos, CA
10am to 7pm includes noon.
Rates are classically set by generation cost because rates pay for generation mostly. Cost can follow load but not necessarily so.
Can you see the hourly pricing on the Ca grid?
There is hourly pricing but it is only on the wholesale market. Retail users have no way to access the hourly pricing. In theory, Tesla could register as a utility like Google has.
 

jeremymc7

Active Member
Feb 3, 2013
1,625
801
U.S.
Yeah I was actually going to charge up yesterday and I noticed that for Westminster, CA. They want $0.20 off peak but an insane $0.40 for peak. Last time I was here I think it was billing at $0.32.

Does anyone know when you have referral miles, does it go based on cost or power used? IE if you're using referral miles does TOD matter?
 
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kishkaru

Member
Feb 3, 2020
238
252
The Bay, CA
There is hourly pricing but it is only on the wholesale market. Retail users have no way to access the hourly pricing. In theory, Tesla could register as a utility like Google has.
Actually, you can see the realtime wholesale price via California ISO. Although it's in a unit called LMP "Locational Marginal Price", and I don't know how to convert that into $/kWh.
You can even see the wholesale price for other markets in other states via the "Region" dropdown.
 

MorrisonHiker

Well-Known Member
Mar 8, 2015
10,244
9,967
Colorado
Yeah I was actually going to charge up yesterday and I noticed that for Westminster, CA. They want $0.20 off peak but an insane $0.40 for peak. Last time I was here I think it was nilling at $0.32.

Does anyone know when you have referral miles, does it go based on cost or power used? IE if you're using referral miles does TOD matter?
They used to show your actual referral credit amount in kWh and they would subtract out kWh after each Supercharge. Now it looks like they display miles...so I believe they would just subtract out rated miles based on the kWh used.
 
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kishkaru

Member
Feb 3, 2020
238
252
The Bay, CA
They used to show your actual referral credit amount in kWh and they would subtract out kWh after each Supercharge. Now it looks like they display miles...so I believe they would just subtract out rated miles based on the kWh used.

When I got a referral, I got "1000 miles of supercharging", which showed up as 250 kWh of energy credit in my Tesla account. Each time I charged, it subtraced the charged kWh from the total available, until it hit 0 kWh available. This was 2-3 months ago.

Looks like you're right, I just logged into my account and now it shows "Credits Used XXX miles" for those same sessions 2-3 months, without mention of any kWh. I can't even see the PDF invoice for those charging sessions anymore. I don't know what conversion they use likely 4 mi / kWh? I added up all my free charging sessions and it came out to 956 miles.

Does anyone know when you have referral miles, does it go based on cost or power used? IE if you're using referral miles does TOD matter?
The nice thing is that whether they calculate it by miles or energy, it seems like TOU rates have no effect on referral miles since energy is energy.
 
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Feathermerchan

Active Member
Sep 21, 2018
1,198
994
Euless, Tx
I think electric markets are $/MW or $/MWH. Even though that's wholesale, it relates to retail. 'OnPeak' is an expression to denote when prices are higher than average. Our very old TOU peak period was Noon-8PM M-F June1-Sep30. But that is in Texas. Heavily dominated by hot weather.
 

Big Earl

bnkwupt
Supporting Member
Jul 12, 2017
5,943
11,158
Springfield, VA
I think electric markets are $/MW or $/MWH. Even though that's wholesale, it relates to retail. 'OnPeak' is an expression to denote when prices are higher than average. Our very old TOU peak period was Noon-8PM M-F June1-Sep30. But that is in Texas. Heavily dominated by hot weather.
Spot pricing is $ per MWh. $20/MWh translates to 2¢ per kWh and, to use an infamous peak price from ERCOT, $9,000/MWh translates to $9/kWh. Note that’s just the generation rate and does not include transmission and distribution charges, demand charges or any other applicable surcharges and riders.
 

tfan2018

Member
Apr 14, 2018
112
28
USA
While I appreciate the new "50% discount off peak", what Tesla failed to mention is that they raised the on-peak rates and on-peak hours.

For example, the supercharger nearest to me in San Jose used to be:
On peak: 4pm-9pm, $0.34/kWh (5 hours)
Off peak: 9pm-4pm, $0.24/kWh

And now its:
On peak: 10am-7pm, $0.40/kWh (9 hours)
Off peak: 7pm-10am, $0.20/kWh

So sure, it's "50% off", but the on-peak cost has also been raised and the 50% discount is based on the new $0.40/kWh rate, and not the old rate.
And not only that, and perhaps more importantly, the on-peak hours have been increased from 5 hours (4-9pm) to 9 hours (10-7pm)!

I don't have home charging, so I rely on my local supercharger for all my charging needs. I used to go to the supercharger during my lunch hour to charge up during off-peak (for both rates and traffic), but now I can't do that anymore. Now I have to go after 7pm, but likely after 9pm because around 7-9pm it's still super busy during dinner time. I only found out about this new on-peak hours adjustment after receiving my latest charging bill this week for charging at noon. It was $22 which is almost double what I usually pay, which is around $13 (for ~55 kWh of energy).

Coleman Supercharger had a really nice rate before the change.

The problem is that lots of people who don't have home charging have the same thinking of supercharging at lunch time / on the way home, so now they are charging more during those times to change behavior and relieve congestion. People can still charge during lunch time, it will just cost a premium. In exchange, charging at night is now cheaper than what it was before, which is a plus.
 

tfan2018

Member
Apr 14, 2018
112
28
USA
When I got a referral, I got "1000 miles of supercharging", which showed up as 250 kWh of energy credit in my Tesla account. Each time I charged, it subtraced the charged kWh from the total available, until it hit 0 kWh available. This was 2-3 months ago.

Looks like you're right, I just logged into my account and now it shows "Credits Used XXX miles" for those same sessions 2-3 months, without mention of any kWh. I can't even see the PDF invoice for those charging sessions anymore. I don't know what conversion they use likely 4 mi / kWh? I added up all my free charging sessions and it came out to 956 miles.


The nice thing is that whether they calculate it by miles or energy, it seems like TOU rates have no effect on referral miles since energy is energy.
Each referral is 1k miles or 400kWh. It's a big annoying that we no longer see the kWh in the history anymore.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,552
6,363
Los Altos, CA
I have the AAA NorCal promo EVgo plan that allows charging for $0.26/min with no monthly fee. This is about $0.35/kWh. The Bay Area has quite a few EVgo sites with Tesla connectors now. If you have to get a charge during the Supercharger Peak hours, these EVgo chargers are a little cheaper. However, it will require more of your time. For me, it would depend on how many miles I needed to add since the additional driving time to the nearby V3 Supercharger would offset the higher charging speed.
 
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Mrbrock

Active Member
Mar 26, 2020
1,001
693
Napa, CA
Each referral is 1k miles or 400kWh. It's a big annoying that we no longer see the kWh in the history anymore.
400kWh? That is horrible efficiency. 400Wh/mi. 100kwh battery would only get you 250 miles.

But this brings up a good point, do you get a different amount of kWh for your 1000 miles depending on the model you own and it’s rated efficiency?
 

tfan2018

Member
Apr 14, 2018
112
28
USA
400kWh? That is horrible efficiency. 400Wh/mi. 100kwh battery would only get you 250 miles.

But this brings up a good point, do you get a different amount of kWh for your 1000 miles depending on the model you own and it’s rated efficiency?

no, it’s regardless of model. So 1k referral miles is more like 1600 actual miles for a model 3
 

Mkroell

New Member
Apr 17, 2021
1
0
Concord, CA
This message popped up on our recent road trip. I think it makes sense when all charging stations are filled, but when we stopped, only a third of the charging spots were in use. It would be nice to trigger it only when getting near capacity. I was worried they would raise the cost for surge pricing when we set charge to a higher percentage.
 

FlatSix911

Porsche 918 Hybrid
Jun 15, 2015
6,938
6,887
Silicon Valley
This message popped up on our recent road trip. I think it makes sense when all charging stations are filled, but when we stopped, only a third of the charging spots were in use. It would be nice to trigger it only when getting near capacity. I was worried they would raise the cost for surge pricing when we set charge to a higher percentage.
No message image was posted...
 

Mrbrock

Active Member
Mar 26, 2020
1,001
693
Napa, CA
no, it’s regardless of model. So 1k referral miles is more like 1600 actual miles for a model 3
Please show me where it shows 400kwh or where you arrived at that conclusion. Pretty sure it’s 250. When I first got my 3 I definitely didn’t get 1600 miles of charging for free.
 

MorrisonHiker

Well-Known Member
Mar 8, 2015
10,244
9,967
Colorado
Please show me where it shows 400kwh or where you arrived at that conclusion. Pretty sure it’s 250. When I first got my 3 I definitely didn’t get 1600 miles of charging for free.
Many years ago, after Tesla stopped free unlimited Supercharging, they offered Model S and X owners 400 kWh per year. I think the other poster is confusing this with the referral program miles. Tesla later changed the referral program to 1000 miles of free Supercharging and stopped offering the 400 kWh of free Supercharging per year.

The 1000 miles is a different amount of kWh per car, based on EPA rated range (which now vary based on model year as well). I don't know the exact numbers they currently use but as an example , the Model 3 consumption might be calculated at 250 Wh/mile, the Model Y would be closer to 280 Wh/mile, the S around 330 Wh/mile and the X would be around 350 Wh/mile. So for the Model 3, the 1000 free miles would be equivalent to 250 kWh awhile it would be closer to 280 kWh for the Y, 330 kWh for the S and 350 kWh for the X. This means that the 1000 miles of free Supercharging costs Tesla more to provide to Model X vs. what it costs for a Model 3.

In the past, when the Tesla website showed a kWh balance instead of miles, we could see the numbers subtracted out at rates similar to above. So for example, if we charged 100 "miles" in a Model Y, it would deduct 28 kWh from the balance. If we charged 100 "miles" in a Model 3, it would subtract out 25 kWh. Now, every car would just show 100 miles subtracted.
 

Feathermerchan

Active Member
Sep 21, 2018
1,198
994
Euless, Tx
While we're talking about free Supercharging miles/kWh, When I asked to change my email address associated with my Tesla account I lost all of my free Supercharging. I have not been able to get it reinstated. FYI.
 
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kishkaru

Member
Feb 3, 2020
238
252
The Bay, CA
Many years ago, after Tesla stopped free unlimited Supercharging, they offered Model S and X owners 400 kWh per year. I think the other poster is confusing this with the referral program miles. Tesla later changed the referral program to 1000 miles of free Supercharging and stopped offering the 400 kWh of free Supercharging per year.

The 1000 miles is a different amount of kWh per car, based on EPA rated range (which now vary based on model year as well). I don't know the exact numbers they currently use but as an example , the Model 3 consumption might be calculated at 250 Wh/mile, the Model Y would be closer to 280 Wh/mile, the S around 330 Wh/mile and the X would be around 350 Wh/mile. So for the Model 3, the 1000 free miles would be equivalent to 250 kWh awhile it would be closer to 280 kWh for the Y, 330 kWh for the S and 350 kWh for the X. This means that the 1000 miles of free Supercharging costs Tesla more to provide to Model X vs. what it costs for a Model 3.

In the past, when the Tesla website showed a kWh balance instead of miles, we could see the numbers subtracted out at rates similar to above. So for example, if we charged 100 "miles" in a Model Y, it would deduct 28 kWh from the balance. If we charged 100 "miles" in a Model 3, it would subtract out 25 kWh. Now, every car would just show 100 miles subtracted.
I can't speak for Model S/X/3, but as I mentioned earlier, I got 250 kWh of free supercharging for the "1000 miles" in my Model Y. Unfortunately I can't prove it since it doesn't display anymore in my Tesla account.

Maybe you're right, it is a different calculation of miles->kWh per Model, but at least for my Model Y, Tesla considered it 4 mi/kWh efficiency (1000 mi / 250 kWh = 4 mi/kWh). In other words, 250 Wh/mi consumption.

Depending on your driving efficiency, you won't get "1000 miles". For example, I drive mainly highways and I get 3 mi/kWh efficiency (333 Wh/mi consumption), so in reality I'm only getting 250 kWh * 3 mi/kWh = "750 miles" of free supercharging.
 

tfan2018

Member
Apr 14, 2018
112
28
USA
Please show me where it shows 400kwh or where you arrived at that conclusion. Pretty sure it’s 250. When I first got my 3 I definitely didn’t get 1600 miles of charging for free.

Proof is based on 19 referrals I've done and it gave me 400 kWh for every referral (charging history is now only showing miles). Also a few links below mention 400kWh.

There's a lot of #s being thrown around which is causing further confusion.

1 referral = "1000 miles"
"1000 miles" = 400 kWh
each kWh for Tesla Model 3 is approx 4 miles of range (LR RWD)
4 miles of range per kWh = 250Wh/mi
400 kWh @ 250Wh/mi = 1600 actual miles
therefore "1000 miles" from 1 referral = 1600 actual miles for Tesla Model 3

Case in point... I used 138 referral miles from my last supercharging session. My battery percent went from 16% to 90%. That's 74% of battery charged with 138 referral miles. We know that each % on Tesla Model 3 is ~3 miles (as least for LR RWD), so 74x3 = 222 miles

222 actual miles / 138 referral miles = 1.6

Which matches what I said: "1000 referral miles" = 1600 actual miles for Tesla Model 3

 
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