Tesla Marketing, Communication & Production speculation

[AlMc]

Not that I'm completely surprised, but that contradicts what another ISR said, according to this post:

Is the Model X spoiler fixed or retractable? - Page 3

"Just got off the phone with Tesla. The rear spoiler is fixed in position and not motorized on the 90D and 70D."

Let's play everyone's favorite game: "Dueling Inside Sales Reps!" In the Manhattan store this week, the reps knew very little about the X. I let them log into my "MyTesla" page to check out the design studio so I could explain the options to them. Considering that there haven't been any 90D models built yet (as far as we know), there's not really any way to physically confirm whether or not there will be a spoiler on the 90D. But also considering anyone who has configured and confirmed their 90D order and has the "spec sheet" PDF with order details in it (with a picture that clearly shows the spoiler), I'd imagine there will be some unhappy campers if they are later told that there is no spoiler on the 90D.

You are right. Everything is speculation at this moment but many people would believe it's true when that's what they hear most the time. This is one thing Tesla should come out to clarify, or at least fix the graphics if inaccurate. On the other side of this is if what P buyers thought is unique to theirs when they pay the $20K extra turns out to be not then there will be even more unhappy people around.

A little clear cummunication from TM would go a long way. It seems we ask this of TM about many things and not just the rear spoiler.

 

[aija SigX 649]

Tesla does not have a structure that allows lower level employees to have up to date info all the time. It's probably the same for most companies. It's only bad for Tesla because it constantly makes fast decisions where only top level people are involved. It's a smart company I'm sure it will find a way to do better in the future, without interfering with the fast moving corporate culture of course. The worst thing could happen to them is they have to ponder what they should tell people today whenever they make new decisions.

I am of the same opinion. Things are happening so fast and with such competitive secrecy at the top (and engineering levels) that there is little time to decimate information down to the sales/marketing/service teams before moving on to the next burning hot priority. These are brilliant people and they have to trust themselves that they are making the correct decisions. Of course some mistakes will be made, but there is no time for second-guessing! I'm confident that progress is being made at breakneck speeds relative to any other new electric car company or any automobile manufacturing company in general for that matter!

Think about how often us common-folk get involved in influencing a new car design and production ramp schedule. There's never been such a feedback loop until now ..It's unprecedented! Until now, we've had no insight into the development cycle of a new car; no idea how long it took to bring to market ...much less a whole new technology. Few appreciate the efforts and balancing act Tesla is managing at the moment. I've been waiting roughly 3 years for my X ..having a background in engineering and management helps in coping with the wait as I can relate to their gargantuan undertaking.

I realize that not everyone can visualize and appreciate the processes at play here and so have a much lower tolerance for the wait and lack of communication. Have faith my friends. Communications will improve over time.

Tesla will sell everything they make for many years to come!

 

[dirkhh]

Have faith my friends. Communications will improve over time.

I'm an atheist - this isn't something I'm good at. But let me ask you... when? This company is not a startup any more. It's a company with about 30 billion dollars in market cap. They have been shipping cars for a number of years, aiming for 50k cars this year and about 100k next year. At which point do we get to say "no, Tesla, you really need to figure this out NOW"?

Tesla will sell everything they make for many years to come!

That's a bold statement. If you look at their projections and their goal to sell 500k cars a year in just a few years, I'm not sure where you take this confidence from.
Hypothetically, if they were to completely mess up the Model X release. You know, YEARS after it was promised, with delays after delays after delays. Broken promises, missed expectations, even four years after the launch basically no car delivered (I know, completely silly and ludicrous hypothesis - just work with me here) and if they then took features away that people really wanted (let's make up some wild random things, let's say they took a key "utility" features which would make it less of a CUV - something like providing less space to load stuff into the car - significantly less than promised... I know, again, this is ridiculous, they'd never do that, but I'm just trying to make a point). And let's say after all this, at some point, the fanboys and -girls are getting a bit restless and then after another price hike or two, after a few more delays, after a much delayed Model III introduction... you still think they'll sell everything they make?

So basically, regardless how much they mess up, regardless how much they abuse the trust of their early adopters, regardless of disastrous communication around all this, whatever happens, anything they produce will be bought, at whatever price they ask for?

I don't know, I have my doubts. I guess I'm lacking in Faith after all.

 

[FlatSix911]

I am of the same opinion. Things are happening so fast and with such competitive secrecy at the top (and engineering levels) that there is little time to decimate information down to the sales/marketing/service teams before moving on to the next burning hot priority.

The truth be known ...

 

[ohmman]

I don't know, I have my doubts. I guess I'm lacking in Faith after all.

I'm with you, man. Tesla will sell anything they make until they have real competition. As many of us have repeated before, we'd love for them to get these loose ends tied up properly before that happens. They're in the driver's seat (...) and can make sure that they are resilient to competition. Or, they can ride the monopoly and face a huge challenge when real, well funded competition arrives.

 

[AlMc]

I'm an atheist - this isn't something I'm good at. But let me ask you... when? This company is not a startup any more. It's a company with about 30 billion dollars in market cap. They have been shipping cars for a number of years, aiming for 50k cars this year and about 100k next year. At which point do we get to say "no, Tesla, you really need to figure this out NOW"?


That's a bold statement. If you look at their projections and their goal to sell 500k cars a year in just a few years, I'm not sure where you take this confidence from.
Hypothetically, if they were to completely mess up the Model X release. You know, YEARS after it was promised, with delays after delays after delays. Broken promises, missed expectations, even four years after the launch basically no car delivered (I know, completely silly and ludicrous hypothesis - just work with me here) and if they then took features away that people really wanted (let's make up some wild random things, let's say they took a key "utility" features which would make it less of a CUV - something like providing less space to load stuff into the car - significantly less than promised... I know, again, this is ridiculous, they'd never do that, but I'm just trying to make a point). And let's say after all this, at some point, the fanboys and -girls are getting a bit restless and then after another price hike or two, after a few more delays, after a much delayed Model III introduction... you still think they'll sell everything they make?

So basically, regardless how much they mess up, regardless how much they abuse the trust of their early adopters, regardless of disastrous communication around all this, whatever happens, anything they produce will be bought, at whatever price they ask for?

I don't know, I have my doubts. I guess I'm lacking in Faith after all.

Dirk, Where did you come up with all those 'hypotheticals? ........................ Oh, right....never mind.:wink:'

 

[JohnSnowNW]

So basically, regardless how much they mess up, regardless how much they abuse the trust of their early adopters, regardless of disastrous communication around all this, whatever happens, anything they produce will be bought, at whatever price they ask for?

I don't know, I have my doubts. I guess I'm lacking in Faith after all.

The forums give you a skewed view of Tesla. Most car buyers aren't going to be cognizant of these issues when they decide to plunk down the money on the Model 3. Or rather, they aren't going to care about the previous delays, or poor communication.

They also won't be as hung up on the details as buyers in the $100k/early adopter segment have been.

And, yeah, being the only game in town has its perks, as well.

 

[dirkhh]

The forums give you a skewed view of Tesla. Most car buyers aren't going to be cognizant of these issues when they decide to plunk down the money on the Model 3. Or rather, they aren't going to care about the previous delays, or poor communication.

They also won't be as hung up on the details as buyers in the $100k/early adopter segment have been.

I guess time will tell. I think you are very optimistic here.

And, yeah, being the only game in town has it's perks, as well.

That's for sure. I cannot wait for the competition to actually compete. With 200+ mile range cars with decent styling and competitive price/value.

 

[Spidy]

...
Think about how often us common-folk get involved in influencing a new car design and production ramp schedule. There's never been such a feedback loop until now ..It's unprecedented! Until now, we've had no insight into the development cycle of a new car; no idea how long it took to bring to market ...much less a whole new technology. Few appreciate the efforts and balancing act Tesla is managing at the moment. I've been waiting roughly 3 years for my X ..having a background in engineering and management helps in coping with the wait as I can relate to their gargantuan undertaking.

I know several people how have been invited by manufacturers to talk about cars they owned and what feedback they have for the next generation. Mostly people who already owned several cars of the same model before or at least the brand.

Also if you have an background in engineering I'm surprised you don't know anything about product cycles. Just 5min on google I found this about suppliers and BMW. For example shows that 18 months before production they already build prototypes.

https://b2biapp6.bmw.com/public/de/..._kaufteile/Qualitaetsmanagement_Kaufteile.pdf

 

[aija SigX 649]

I know several people how have been invited by manufacturers to talk about cars they owned and what feedback they have for the next generation. Mostly people who already owned several cars of the same model before or at least the brand.

Also if you have an background in engineering I'm surprised you don't know anything about product cycles. Just 5min on google I found this about suppliers and BMW. For example shows that 18 months before production they already build prototypes.
View attachment 104124
https://b2biapp6.bmw.com/public/de/..._kaufteile/Qualitaetsmanagement_Kaufteile.pdf

Well this chart says it all then I guess, and in just a 5min search! Pretty impressive. My Googling and product development cycle management skills must not be up to par. Unfortunately my German is a bit rusty so I'll just have to take your word for it. Not sure BMW is a good comparison just yet though as they've had multiple plants up and running for decades. Hope they put out a good product. The less ICE vehicles on the road the better. Time will tell.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm an atheist - this isn't something I'm good at. But let me ask you... when? This company is not a startup any more. It's a company with about 30 billion dollars in market cap. They have been shipping cars for a number of years, aiming for 50k cars this year and about 100k next year. At which point do we get to say "no, Tesla, you really need to figure this out NOW"?

Reality check - This company is in it's infancy comparatively speaking and still going through growing pains. They're just spinning up a second line for crying out loud.

That's a bold statement. If you look at their projections and their goal to sell 500k cars a year in just a few years, I'm not sure where you take this confidence from.
Hypothetically, if they were to completely mess up the Model X release. You know, YEARS after it was promised, with delays after delays after delays. Broken promises, missed expectations, even four years after the launch basically no car delivered (I know, completely silly and ludicrous hypothesis - just work with me here) and if they then took features away that people really wanted (let's make up some wild random things, let's say they took a key "utility" features which would make it less of a CUV - something like providing less space to load stuff into the car - significantly less than promised... I know, again, this is ridiculous, they'd never do that, but I'm just trying to make a point). And let's say after all this, at some point, the fanboys and -girls are getting a bit restless and then after another price hike or two, after a few more delays, after a much delayed Model III introduction... you still think they'll sell everything they make?

So basically, regardless how much they mess up, regardless how much they abuse the trust of their early adopters, regardless of disastrous communication around all this, whatever happens, anything they produce will be bought, at whatever price they ask for?

I don't know, I have my doubts. I guess I'm lacking in Faith after all.

Everyone has their threshold, I just haven't reached mine yet. Can't please everyone.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I guess time will tell. I think you are very optimistic here.

I don't think it's really optimism, it's just that the general public isn't really represented on this forum. If the general public were as involved/invested as Model S/X customers then Am. automobile manufacturers would have gone out of business in the 90's.

 

[eloder]

I'm an atheist - this isn't something I'm good at. But let me ask you... when? This company is not a startup any more. It's a company with about 30 billion dollars in market cap. They have been shipping cars for a number of years, aiming for 50k cars this year and about 100k next year. At which point do we get to say "no, Tesla, you really need to figure this out NOW"?

I work for a Fortune 15 company, and everything I read about Tesla indicates that Tesla has better communication than my company. I work close to the front lines of my company with customers, and I'll often read news articles on Cnet about new products/offerings well before I'll receive even the first internal communication about it, let alone training or answers about said product. This delay becomes even more worse/pronounced when it comes to non-corporate employees that we contract with.

So I think the answer is simply, this is natural among any big company.

 

[aija SigX 649]

I know several people how have been invited by manufacturers to talk about cars they owned and what feedback they have for the next generation. Mostly people who already owned several cars of the same model before or at least the brand.

You're obviously missing the point here. This is about disruptive innovation, novel design, strict compliance, factory buildout, cost reduction, minimalistic functional beauty, etc., etc., etc. oh ..and changing the world while we're at it! We're not talking about tweaking headlights, gauges and tailpipes every 3 years.

 

[scottf200]

I work for a Fortune 15 company, and everything I read about Tesla indicates that Tesla has better communication than my company. I work close to the front lines of my company with customers, and I'll often read news articles on Cnet about new products/offerings well before I'll receive even the first internal communication about it, let alone training or answers about said product. This delay becomes even more worse/pronounced when it comes to non-corporate employees that we contract with.
So I think the answer is simply, this is natural among any big company.

I've experienced this as well but they have to be VERY careful about who has what information for a publicly held company. Timing needs to be watched very carefully as employees can't have information before the public ... inside trading issues.

 

[SCModelX]

I am of the same opinion. Things are happening so fast and with such competitive secrecy at the top (and engineering levels) that there is little time to decimate information down to the sales/marketing/service teams before moving on to the next burning hot priority. These are brilliant people and they have to trust themselves that they are making the correct decisions. Of course some mistakes will be made, but there is no time for second-guessing! I'm confident that progress is being made at breakneck speeds relative to any other new electric car company or any automobile manufacturing company in general for that matter!

Think about how often us common-folk get involved in influencing a new car design and production ramp schedule. There's never been such a feedback loop until now ..It's unprecedented! Until now, we've had no insight into the development cycle of a new car; no idea how long it took to bring to market ...much less a whole new technology. Few appreciate the efforts and balancing act Tesla is managing at the moment. I've been waiting roughly 3 years for my X ..having a background in engineering and management helps in coping with the wait as I can relate to their gargantuan undertaking.

I realize that not everyone can visualize and appreciate the processes at play here and so have a much lower tolerance for the wait and lack of communication. Have faith my friends. Communications will improve over time.

Tesla will sell everything they make for many years to come!

i agree with you 100%. We are all waiting for "the most difficult car in the world to build", from a new manufacturer, with new technology, with a new sales system, with the intent to change the world as we know it. And, guess what?!?! It's working. The other manufacturers are slowly catching on and sending signals that they are paying attention. I certainly am, as most of you are. I feel strongly that all animosity toward Tesla, should take into account all of the quote... and above. We are all here it seems (and NOT on Chevy or Fords motors club) to witness, and be a part of, a groundbreaking, and probably earth healing revolution!!! Revolutions are FOUGHT and WON by the persistent. The focused. The patient. Maybe that's a bit grandiose, but it's how I see it. Why I'm willing to pay $2700/ mo for my 2 Teslas, when $800/ mo was my previous max. Let's all be supportive in this amazing endeavor. Our grandkids will thank us for, and want to talk to us about, our part in this grand endeavor!!!!! Yeah, I drink the Kool-Aid!!!! Go Tesla!!!! Get me that X!!! Reservation P14xx.

 

[Out4aDuck]

In the BMW product development map (which is typical for the industry), the Proto build 18 months prior to production is equivalent to Tesla's Beta build. It's used for design validation. Most of the intensive testing (engineering cost) is performed in this phase. Then there is a Production Validation build that normally occurs 4-6 months before start of production. It's used to validate the production process. The Tesla equivalent is the Founders Series.

 

[Blastphemy]

What part of the seats are cooled when we add the Premium package? Just the butt?

Butt and back. I told him that this was a point of concern and debate online and he went away for a minute and then said he verified it. FWIW. YMMV.

I'd love to know with whom your representative verified that the seatback is also ventilated. I called four times this past week, spoke with four different people -- two of whom claimed they had to check with engineers and call me back the next day -- and each time was told it was only the seat bottom. I sure hope your information is correct, though; this is one case I'd be thrilled that my answers were wrong.

 

[bobbykansara]

The forums give you a skewed view of Tesla. Most car buyers aren't going to be cognizant of these issues when they decide to plunk down the money on the Model 3. Or rather, they aren't going to care about the previous delays, or poor communication.

They also won't be as hung up on the details as buyers in the $100k/early adopter segment have been.

And, yeah, being the only game in town has it's perks, as well.

Not to get too far off topic, but I believe there are at least two types of Tesla "adopters" at this point. I phrased it that way instead of buyers to limit this classification scheme to people who will preorder a Tesla before it is released. There may be many subtypes, but this is the way I see it:

Category I: Never preordered a Tesla before, and unfamiliar with Tesla's Modus Operandi RE: frequent delays, lack of clear details on the product prelaunch, etc.

Category II: Have preordered a Tesla before, and is familiar with frequent delays, lack of clear product information prelaunch, etc.

I used to be in Cat. I. And being unfamiliar with Tesla's usual MO, I felt a lot of frustration and pain with the process.

When the Model 3 is announced, I will be in Cat. II and familiar with Tesla's MO.

That familiarity will dissipate a LOT of the frustration and anger over how "they're mis-handling this!". And THAT'S why I feel pretty comfortable plunking down a deposit on a Model 3. At the end of the day, I trust this company to deliver a GREAT product that's not on time, but when it's ready to be great. This is in contradistinction to much bigger ICE companies that often seem to release less than great products, but the emphasis is on the time-table. In Tesla's case, our patience seems to pay off by us getting a superior product to anything else on the market.

And once Tesla gets a REAL competitor in the market, then perhaps the competition will drive them to bow to the whims of their most ardent and strident fans on this forum. But for now, I accept their imperfections as a corporation because of the spectacular nature of the product they deliver that truly has no equal.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Not to get too far off topic, but I believe there are at least two types of Tesla "adopters" at this point. I phrased it that way instead of buyers to limit this classification scheme to people who will preorder a Tesla before it is released. There may be many subtypes, but this is the way I see it:

Category I: Never preordered a Tesla before, and unfamiliar with Tesla's Modus Operandi RE: frequent delays, lack of clear details on the product prelaunch, etc.

Category II: Have preordered a Tesla before, and is familiar with frequent delays, lack of clear product information prelaunch, etc.

I used to be in Cat. I. And being unfamiliar with Tesla's usual MO, I felt a lot of frustration and pain with the process.

When the Model 3 is announced, I will be in Cat. II and familiar with Tesla's MO.

That familiarity will dissipate a LOT of the frustration and anger over how "they're mis-handling this!". And THAT'S why I feel pretty comfortable plunking down a deposit on a Model 3. At the end of the day, I trust this company to deliver a GREAT product that's not on time, but when it's ready to be great. This is in contradistinction to much bigger ICE companies that often seem to release less than great products, but the emphasis is on the time-table. In Tesla's case, our patience seems to pay off by us getting a superior product to anything else on the market.

And once Tesla gets a REAL competitor in the market, then perhaps the competition will drive them to bow to the whims of their most ardent and strident fans on this forum. But for now, I accept their imperfections as a corporation because of the spectacular nature of the product they deliver that truly has no equal.

Right, but if Tesla is selling 500k vehicles a year, with the Model 3...general production will not be seeing these same issues. Tesla will have ironed out the issues surrounding the Model S/X, or they won't be selling the volume they expect.

When I talk about people plunking the money down for the Model 3, these will be people ordering well after the initial release of the Model 3. I don't consider individuals in the "general population" category as those who are ordering the Model 3 years/months in advance of its initial release...or even before initial ramp up to production. Another aspect of the general population is that they won't probably be interested in waiting months for their car to be built and delivered.

The Model 3 is simply going to have different customers. Some will be Cat I, and II, but the majority after the first 50-100k will be your relatively average (premium) car buyer. Those that are used to driving up to the dealership in their old car, and driving away in a new one a few hours later. Then drive their car from point A to B...without consideration for what Tesla is doing behind the scenes to improve their car...or how long it takes to roll out the next software release.

 

[aesculus]

I've experienced this as well but they have to be VERY careful about who has what information for a publicly held company. Timing needs to be watched very carefully as employees can't have information before the public ... inside trading issues.

This does not apply to the features of a product. It is about the finances, relationships and contracts that could materially affect the companies worth. If a company wants to disclosure all their product features to the public prior to the products availability, that is their business and its done every day. What is questionable and illegal from another standpoint is to purposefully state claims that you know are false in order to damage a competitor or market in your favor. Neither which applies in this situation.

And I work for a BIG company that is just the opposite. Research and development are heavily involved with inside sales. They are constantly communicating and sharing ideas well before public announcement. While we are prohibited from disclosing details to customers without an NDA, for business reasons, we are still aware of any pitfalls and issues that could be important. And if we feel that something could be a big deal to a customer, we quickly get development in front of the customer to explain our reasoning, plans (as we know it) or goals and solicit feedback. We try to keep everyone on the same page. Much better than trying to fix issues later.