Canuck
Well-Known Member
Hmmm... I wonder if there is a non-disclosure agreement? I note that I read this email from Tesla to the OP earlier but now it's "pending approval"...
Attachments Pending Approval
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Tesla Model X Cancellation
- Thread starter montauto
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- cancellation Model X
Hmmm... I wonder if there is a non-disclosure agreement? I note that I read this email from Tesla to the OP earlier but now it's "pending approval"...
Attachments Pending Approval
Krugerrand
Meow
Funny related story: had my car in for a second recall item, took over a month for the part to come in, finally get it done, get a call the next day from the dealership service guy asking if I could spend 5 minutes doing a survey he's going to send to me by e-mail - and here's the kicker, and I quote - "If you can't give me tens on the survey, please call me first to let me know what I can do to earn those tens and become a better man." I did not do the survey because I had no interesting in showing him how to become a better man, simply not my type. :tongue:
Ding Ding Ding Ding.
I doubt strongly that a buyback occurred without an NDA. This guys troubles may be just beginning.
Here's what I don't get. It's no secret that Tesla does buy-backs... Elon has said you can return your car "within a reasonable amount of time" for a full refund. Why on earth would you get into a threat filled fight with Tesla? That's just plain dumb. I get being upset for not getting something others got or the seats the OP claims to have ordered, but a) not worth 30 grand and b) no reason to throw threats around, let alone threats that include the phrase "whatever else I can come up with" (to sue for).
I will try to address most of the responses collectively.
I love the car that Tesla has built. It's fast, it's smooth, it's electric & evolving etc. That's why I'd like to have one despite Tesla's terrible business practice in my case. Those are two different things ... the actual car and the company behavior.
Also, it seems that most of you didn't even pay attention to the email content at all ...
Tesla is claiming that their customers are like family to them, so do you treat a family member like that?
Then at the end they forgot that I am already a "family member" by stating they're sorry they couldn't win me over as a customer
( as I am already a Tesla customer )
Mixed boiler plate response that only causes confusion and serves no purpose.
Also, I do have a life and thanks God it's a very good one with or without Tesla
Can I get a new Tesla vehicle even if Tesla blacklisted me? Absolutely I can .. I have the cash and I can buy a brand new Model S any day under another name. What I cannot get is a Model X in 2015 and this is what I was suppose to get. I can get a brand new Model X in 2016 under another name, but that's not the point.
Is Tesla allowed to cancel my reservation? Yes, they are and it's in their agreement and I am aware of that.
After attempting to resolve a business matter in a very reasonable fashion and you can't, what would you do? Thank the other party involved that they screwed you up?
Many of you stated that I'm possibly a jerk, or a pain customer etc ... and probably I am..
I am business owner myself and I am in the car business dealing with high end luxury cars as well mass market cars and my company serve's hundreds of customers daily and we even get claims about missing air valve cap from customers that make 6 figures a year.
Imagine you order a custom car for $150k and you get the car with the wrong seats? How does that compare with the air valve caps? Am I unreasonable to complain?
On top of that Tesla is trying to hide it from me, trying to intimidate me at the time of delivery.
Instead, how about a simple phone call informing me about the issue and let me decide what to do?
I get it, that most of the folks here had a nice experience with Tesla deliveries and dealings (not talking about the car qualities itself as I already stated that I love the car).
If Tesla had called me most likely I would've accepted their explanation and accepted the car with the wrong seats.
I just don't understand if Tesla is trying to hit a mass market in couple of years and they pull such stunts with the masses, do they really think the crowd will be so forgiving as the few thousand enthusiasts in this forum?
At the moment Tesla is a larger boutique car shop for the top 2-3% and if they handle some of these folks the way I have experienced it, they will fail when they try to reach the crowd.
I'm pretty sure that if anyone of you here ordered a gasoline custom made car from any other manufacturer and you get not what you've ordered you'll make a huge noise and you will have almost zero forgiveness for the manufacturer, but for Tesla you're forgiving, because they're trying a new technology and you should give them a credit and I'd do it too, however placing the wrong seats on purpose and not disclosing it is not an honest move and is not technology related.
Based on your responses, apparently I am wrong that I have complained that I didn't get the car I ordered and paid for and I should've thanked Tesla for taking my money and giving me something I didn't purchase and praise them to be so kind to me
I guess I am labeled as the black sheep and I do not belong to this sheep herd. Hopefully the sheepherder takes you to greener pastures
PS: I do not have an NDA with Tesla, so don't worry about me. On another note I see lots of you are kind of happy if Tesla goes after me by discussing this issue openly here, but you seem very critical of why I would proceed with legal action against Tesla?
I love the car that Tesla has built. It's fast, it's smooth, it's electric & evolving etc. That's why I'd like to have one despite Tesla's terrible business practice in my case. Those are two different things ... the actual car and the company behavior.
Also, it seems that most of you didn't even pay attention to the email content at all ...
Tesla is claiming that their customers are like family to them, so do you treat a family member like that?
Then at the end they forgot that I am already a "family member" by stating they're sorry they couldn't win me over as a customer
( as I am already a Tesla customer )Mixed boiler plate response that only causes confusion and serves no purpose.
Also, I do have a life and thanks God it's a very good one with or without Tesla
Can I get a new Tesla vehicle even if Tesla blacklisted me? Absolutely I can .. I have the cash and I can buy a brand new Model S any day under another name. What I cannot get is a Model X in 2015 and this is what I was suppose to get. I can get a brand new Model X in 2016 under another name, but that's not the point.
Is Tesla allowed to cancel my reservation? Yes, they are and it's in their agreement and I am aware of that.
After attempting to resolve a business matter in a very reasonable fashion and you can't, what would you do? Thank the other party involved that they screwed you up?
Many of you stated that I'm possibly a jerk, or a pain customer etc ... and probably I am..
I am business owner myself and I am in the car business dealing with high end luxury cars as well mass market cars and my company serve's hundreds of customers daily and we even get claims about missing air valve cap from customers that make 6 figures a year.
Imagine you order a custom car for $150k and you get the car with the wrong seats? How does that compare with the air valve caps? Am I unreasonable to complain?
On top of that Tesla is trying to hide it from me, trying to intimidate me at the time of delivery.
Instead, how about a simple phone call informing me about the issue and let me decide what to do?
I get it, that most of the folks here had a nice experience with Tesla deliveries and dealings (not talking about the car qualities itself as I already stated that I love the car).
If Tesla had called me most likely I would've accepted their explanation and accepted the car with the wrong seats.
I just don't understand if Tesla is trying to hit a mass market in couple of years and they pull such stunts with the masses, do they really think the crowd will be so forgiving as the few thousand enthusiasts in this forum?
At the moment Tesla is a larger boutique car shop for the top 2-3% and if they handle some of these folks the way I have experienced it, they will fail when they try to reach the crowd.
I'm pretty sure that if anyone of you here ordered a gasoline custom made car from any other manufacturer and you get not what you've ordered you'll make a huge noise and you will have almost zero forgiveness for the manufacturer, but for Tesla you're forgiving, because they're trying a new technology and you should give them a credit and I'd do it too, however placing the wrong seats on purpose and not disclosing it is not an honest move and is not technology related.
Based on your responses, apparently I am wrong that I have complained that I didn't get the car I ordered and paid for and I should've thanked Tesla for taking my money and giving me something I didn't purchase and praise them to be so kind to me
I guess I am labeled as the black sheep and I do not belong to this sheep herd
. Hopefully the sheepherder takes you to greener pastures PS: I do not have an NDA with Tesla, so don't worry about me. On another note I see lots of you are kind of happy if Tesla goes after me by discussing this issue openly here, but you seem very critical of why I would proceed with legal action against Tesla?
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Based on your responses, apparently I am wrong that I have complained that I didn't get the car I ordered and paid for and I should've thanked Tesla for taking my money and giving me something I didn't purchase and praise them to be so kind to me
Oh please. No one said anyone shouldn't criticize. (Check around this forum, there is plenty of criticism.) You're totally minimizing your behavior now and acting like a victim.
If the OP thinks threatening a class action lawsuit and insisting on a liquidated damages clause of $30k for the delay in receiving the new seats (which are nice, but hardly worth refusing to accept delivery) was a reasonable response to Tesla delivering a car to him without the new seats (gasp), then I hate to see what the OP would think an unreasonable response would be.
When I took delivery of my MS in Feb. 2013, there were a few things that were not available because Tesla's suppliers were behind schedule. First World problem. I rejoiced in taking delivery of the car ASAP and taking a due bill with the items yet to be delivered. The items on the due bill arrived shortly, and I had almost forgotten about them because of the fun I had had driving my MS in the meantime. I ask the OP, did Tesla not tell you that the seats would be replaced as soon as possible when you took delivery? I would bet the farm Tesla did just that, but that wasn't good enough for you. Your response to them was entirely UNREASONABLE. That you don't think it was is a little scary.
When I took delivery of my MS in Feb. 2013, there were a few things that were not available because Tesla's suppliers were behind schedule. First World problem. I rejoiced in taking delivery of the car ASAP and taking a due bill with the items yet to be delivered. The items on the due bill arrived shortly, and I had almost forgotten about them because of the fun I had had driving my MS in the meantime. I ask the OP, did Tesla not tell you that the seats would be replaced as soon as possible when you took delivery? I would bet the farm Tesla did just that, but that wasn't good enough for you. Your response to them was entirely UNREASONABLE. That you don't think it was is a little scary.
Electricfan
Active Member
Acting like?
He paid for a very expensive car and didn't get the right features, and the seats are important aren't they? I'd say he is the victim. Not handling the situation right doesn't change that fact does it?
Montauto, you need to look at the bright side. You don't own a Tesla. People on this forum seem to think Tesla has "made it" and they're not at risk, but they are definitely at risk, and you may get the last laugh if Tesla goes under. Another thing is that it looks like there are lots of competitors coming soon - so you can wait and buy from someone else (and from a much larger company like VW or GM) without the risk of winding up owning a car with no living manufacturer.
And as for losing money, well, we all lost money (I'm referring to the pre-autopilot owners like me). Being the first duck in the pond is a horrendous risk, and you shouldn't take it without accepting you're going to pay for it somehow. My 1 year old car is worth 30k less than it was a year ago. That's a hell of a depreciation!!!
Personally I'm going enjoy my car for a few years and see what shakes out. My next car will drive itself. It may or may not be a Tesla. I still love the car, but you found out that Tesla is just another "big car company", and they're not much different when it comes down to it from GM or any other. Stand in their way, you get run over.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
You're either deliberately misreading what I wrote or you just didn't understand the words.
To clarify for you, I did make clear criticism wasn't the issue (in response to his complaint that people here didn't think he should say anything negative). My comment about being a victim was about the fact that he isn't owning how his own unreasonable behavior resulted in being blacklisted.
But that doesn't probably fit with your worldview about people on TMC. I get it.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Right. There are plenty of people who complained/criticized about the same seat issue (I believe we have a very long thread on this) and I don't believe anyone dismissed those complaints. The difference is people there didn't threaten to sue Tesla or start a class action lawsuit.
And there are people with issues way worse than just mismatching seats, and they were able to work things out with Tesla (with some being extremely vocal too, and some getting buybacks or a resolution that required an NDA). I think the difference is not that they didn't complain, but rather how they did their complaining.
I should add that I realize sometimes in the heat of the moment there are people who threaten to sue because they feel wronged (I'm not one of those people, but I know people personally that like to do this). This may somewhat work when speaking with a low level representative on the phone (because it may pressure them to give some predetermined concessions that they are authorized to give to dissatisfied customers in the first place). However, when you are writing directly to an executive of a company, you should really consider carefully, because they will treat such a threat seriously and will forward to their lawyer.
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I say we need better pre-release analysis on Tesla's products so that people know beforehand what is coming and what not, so that they are not disappointed and all lawyery. TMC failed the guy! If only we'd analyzed distant photos of next-gen seats better...
Personally, I think the response on TMC to an issue like this is likely to be fairly one-sided. A lot of people identify with Tesla very strongly. Tesla is part of their family, so to speak, and the response will always be in kind. The thread is fairly brutal on the guy, but so that no one takes it personally, it is probably good to understand the emotion involved.
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I get it that you wish that is the case and thus blacklistings will not bite Tesla in the behind. Unfortunately I'm not quite as confident. Hey, I hope you're right.
And this is actually the part where *I* identify with Tesla and their mission. I worry that the pitchforks might harm the bigger mission.
Personally, I think the response on TMC to an issue like this is likely to be fairly one-sided. A lot of people identify with Tesla very strongly. Tesla is part of their family, so to speak, and the response will always be in kind. The thread is fairly brutal on the guy, but so that no one takes it personally, it is probably good to understand the emotion involved.
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I get it that you wish that is the case and thus blacklistings will not bite Tesla in the behind. Unfortunately I'm not quite as confident. Hey, I hope you're right.
And this is actually the part where *I* identify with Tesla and their mission. I worry that the pitchforks might harm the bigger mission.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Too funny this whole thing. If one thing it proves Tesla is production constrained
Why sell to the OP when there are thousands of normal minded customers waiting in line behind him.
This is the first we've ever heard of Tesla canceling someone's reservation. I think it's uncommon indeed, and that the OPs behavior leading up to this has also been uncommon and unusual. Even if he thinks he's acted "perfectly reasonable".
Why sell to the OP when there are thousands of normal minded customers waiting in line behind him.
This is the first we've ever heard of Tesla canceling someone's reservation. I think it's uncommon indeed, and that the OPs behavior leading up to this has also been uncommon and unusual. Even if he thinks he's acted "perfectly reasonable".
Yes. It's called tough love. When you threatened to sue the company, you didn't just raise a fist against the company, you pointed a gun at them.
The fact that you wouldn't even address that critical point shows that you recognize that you've gone too far with that.
Now you say that you can get a model X at will in 2016, but you simply wanted one in 2015 points to affluenza behavior. You need a change of perspective, because it's pretty clear that your viewpoint isn't shared by anyone here (and I don't even own a tesla!)
Too funny this whole thing. If one thing it proves Tesla is production constrained
Why sell to the OP when there are thousands of normal minded customers waiting in line behind him.
I would argue selling to the OP might be wise just to stop any lobbyist from claiming we need a dealership system "advocating for the consumer in case of manufacturer blacklisting". But I guess that concern is not shared by many here and that's that.
On the funny note, if Tesla and the OP had issues over incomplete delivery of Model S - and Tesla decides to cancel Model X reservation as well because of that - is Tesla expecting having to deliver an incomplete Model X as well?
Now, we need to factor this into our TMC Model X Mule to Production Translation Model aka MoXtoProToM stat. Now someone go shoot some mules! Not with lawsuits aka guns, but with cameras!
Canuck
Well-Known Member
"Family" is a two way street. I would never treat a family member the way you treated Tesla. I too am a business owner. How Tesla handled your seats is flat out wrong. How you responded, however, is the real issue. I'm in a similar position to Tesla (on a very micro scale) in that I don't need to deal with BS from customers anymore. I have more work than I wish to handle and what I earn is inheritance for my children. Life is too short to have to deal with people like you. 25 years ago, I put up with problem clients because I needed the business. Now I tell them to hit the road like Tesla told you.
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The dealership system does not prevent blacklisting:
Tesla Model X Cancellation - Page 6
It is not hard to argue it would lessen it, though, both from the perspective that you could argue dealerships could advocate for consumers if it happens - and that some level of that blacklisting would happen on the dealership level where simply swapping dealers would help the consumer. Also, Tesla's direct to order model could be argued hurtful here, because buying from the lot might offer consumer more options and safety in this regard as well.
In an entrenched industry I wouldn't think twice of it, but Tesla is fighting - and is being fought back by - an established system that might be able to point out consumer has more options with that system than with a monopoly (on new model cars in this case) seller.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Did you read the Corvette thread? The dealer did not advocate and it was at the manufacturer's level so swapping dealers makes no difference. Any private business can refuse a consumer provided it is not on the basis of prohibited discrimination (i.e. race, sexual preferences, religion, etc.). That makes sense and is the way it should be, to deal with people like the OP.
bluenation
Member
tl dr version:
the true source of the problem is tesla's terrible communications issue (and related lack of customer consideration)
but OP's actions are on a whole nother level.
just get a nother car, dude, and stop bitchin.
the true source of the problem is tesla's terrible communications issue (and related lack of customer consideration)
but OP's actions are on a whole nother level.
just get a nother car, dude, and stop bitchin.
I am not claiming the dealership system would prevent it in all cases, let alone am I for the dealership system. Very much the contrary.
I fear it is not a black and white issue like you make it sound like. A monopoly player (just in the sense that they control the new product channel entirely in many states) in a consumer business will always get more scrutiny and that already puts Tesla's close-to-vest model in a different light. But in this case said monopoly player (Tesla) is also fighting an established, more diversified system (no matter what the reality is, that will be the perception they can paint) in the process that is trying to get legislators on their side. Tesla is also offering a product with government subsidies.
I fear the dealerships might be able to argue they are needed for protection against arbitrary decisions by the sole seller and get someone to legislate accordingly.
1) If you don't get what you ordered you can clearly refuse to take delivery. There are no two ways about that.
2) I am sure Tesla would have dealt with it differently if OP had not made stupid demands of LD
3) Clearly Tesla has the right to cancel any reservation, I would have done the same
4) Acting on one's contractual right is never discriminatory
I for one would have taken delivery, and get brand new seats whenever, so less wear and tear, after a few months. Good deal for me I would think.
Move on and spare us the complaining. It is by your own doing.
2) I am sure Tesla would have dealt with it differently if OP had not made stupid demands of LD
3) Clearly Tesla has the right to cancel any reservation, I would have done the same
4) Acting on one's contractual right is never discriminatory
I for one would have taken delivery, and get brand new seats whenever, so less wear and tear, after a few months. Good deal for me I would think.
Move on and spare us the complaining. It is by your own doing.
