Tesla needs to move to CCS in North America

[noobla3]

It looks like Tesla created a CCS1 to Tesla adapter for its Korean market: Tesla announces new CCS charging adapter but North America launch still unclear - Electrek

Definitely will get one when available in states.

 

[Roger Keay]

If I recall correctly, European model S and X vehicles built before the Raven upgrade require new circuit boards to handle the CCS protocol, not just the physical adaptor. The same situation could be true in North America as the CCS protocol is the same all over the world. Only the physical configuration of the connector is different. I read the CCS stuff a while ago so I could be wrong and welcome any corrections.

 

[SageBrush]

The same situation could be true in North America as the CCS protocol is the same all over the world. Only the physical configuration of the connector is different.

I'm not sure about the protocol, but CCS2 is DC+Type2 while CCS1 is DC+J1772. Type2 actually has a DC protocol (in addition to AC) that was used in the pre CCS2 Tesla cars. In terms of AC J1772 vs Type2, the latter also supports 3 phase AC.

It's interesting to consider that Tesla was *already* using a pan Europe Type2 hardware and protocol spec prior to CCS2 becoming the new standard, albeit with DC charging enabled. I'm not sure why Europe decided to jump from Type2 to CCS2 rather than just enable DC charging via Type2. The only advantage I know of is that Type2 is limited to 140 kW while CCS2 goes much higher.

 

[bobby g]

Tesla already has their chademo adapter.

Everywhere there's chademo there's ccs. I like the adapter but also the exclusivity of the current plug. It means that there will be more spots at the sc's when you need them

 

[SageBrush]

It means that there will be more spots at the sc's when you need them

I doubt it. I know for sure that I will easily prefer a Tesla Supercharger over a generic CCS1 station if I have a choice:

1. I can count on Supercharger reliability
2. Typically better locations
3. Cheaper
4. No fiddling with payments and adapters
5. My money is not flowing to Walmart or VW
6. Maximum charging speed
7. Car pre-conditioning

I view CCS1 as 'Plan C' -- most appreciated when neither Plan 'A' or Plan 'B' is available

 

[bobby g]

I doubt it. I know for sure that I will easily prefer a Tesla Supercharger over a generic CCS1 station if I have a choice:

1. I can count on Supercharger reliability
2. Typically better locations
3. Cheaper
4. No fiddling with payments and adapters
5. My money is not flowing to Walmart or VW
6. Maximum charging speed
7. Car pre-conditioning

I view CCS1 as 'Plan C' -- most appreciated when neither Plan 'A' or Plan 'B' is available

That's what I meant. We don't have to use other L3's and other cars can't try and use the SC's but am adapter would give us options. Some I would pass. As I've said, I'd push my car home before using EA

 

[noobla3]

I doubt it. I know for sure that I will easily prefer a Tesla Supercharger over a generic CCS1 station if I have a choice:

1. I can count on Supercharger reliability
2. Typically better locations
3. Cheaper
4. No fiddling with payments and adapters
5. My money is not flowing to Walmart or VW
6. Maximum charging speed
7. Car pre-conditioning

I view CCS1 as 'Plan C' -- most appreciated when neither Plan 'A' or Plan 'B' is available

What's plan B?

 

[SageBrush]

What's plan B?

Supercharging only

Plan 'A' is a mixture of L2 destination charging and Supercharging

 

[fm500]

Correct and Bolt never locks a J1772 handle for AC charging to the car.

But yes, on some EVs/PHEVs that I've seen w/charging locks for J1772 handle locking (can't speak to DC FCing and for some, it's n/a), like e-Golfs and BMWs, they have a round pin/peg that sticks out and blocks the upward movement of the tang on J1772 AC handles (also preventing the micoswitch from being pressed). I've not DC FCed those to see if with an SAE Combo handle attached whether there's enough movement to allow the trigger/microswitch to be pressed to terminate the DC FC session.

'13+ Leaf (I have a '13) J1772 charging lock is totally different w/a white plastic/nylon piece that moves to lock the handle in place. Of course, that's n/a for DC FCing as that's via CHAdeMO.

The spec for J1772 requires an electrical mechanical break prior to physical removal capability as a function of the J1772 end However, this a requirement on the charger side. How the Tesla adapter implements it -- I don't know.

 

[Prof]

IMHO, CCS is the way forward for Tesla.

Now that Electrify America (EA) is rolling out CCS based chargers, this let's Tesla expand it's "Tesla Supercharging network" without the cost of new installations or buy building few dedicated Superchargers. Instead they can strike a deal to piggy back on the Electrify American network, while still maintaining their dedicated Superchargers features such as free charging for qualified owners.

To do this Tesla needs switch to manufacturing cars with CCS, as they are with the cars going to Europe.

Tesla is already install a dual CCS/Supercharger retrofit kit to their existing superchargers in Europe. So with both "regular" supercharger and EA CCS this would would let NA Tesla owners with CCS ports continue to use the existing Supercharger locations and the new "EA Superchargers". Also it would it incentives North American buyers to upgrade to new model Teslas that supported CCS rather then hold onto their older vehicles.

What do people think?

Maybe I am selfish, but I like that Tesla superchargers are only for Tesla cars. Think of all the Ford, GM, VW, etc. cars taking up the SC stalls. There aren't many competitive EVs now but in a couple of years they will proliferate. Let them use the EA stations that number far less than SC stations and I will stick with SC.

 

[MP3Mike]

Maybe I am selfish, but I like that Tesla superchargers are only for Tesla cars.

But they aren't anymore. (Or at least very soon they won't be limited to Tesla vehicles.)

 

[e of pi]

Maybe I am selfish, but I like that Tesla superchargers are only for Tesla cars. Think of all the Ford, GM, VW, etc. cars taking up the SC stalls. There aren't many competitive EVs now but in a couple of years they will proliferate. Let them use the EA stations that number far less than SC stations and I will stick with SC.

There's an few issues with assuming that's good for Tesla. Imagine you're a rest stop, and you want to install chargers. You can get multiple companies (EA,EVGo, Charepoint, and others) to give quotes on installing and maintaining chargers on your site in the CCS/Chademo dual standards, with options all the way from "we just pay you a lease, we do all the work and pay the electricity costs to the utility, we get all the profit" to "we install to your spec and do regular maintenance, you pay the electrical cost and get the profit". That means there may be better prices and more options in how you do the install if you partner with one of several companies, while Tesla is the sole source for superchargers. Lets say you install some of both, just to split your risk and open up to a broader customer base (as a few places have where Tesla and CCS charger banks from EA and EVGo have ended up going in side-by-side.

Now imagine you go and look, and all the CCS chargers are full of a bunch of different brands, and they're always full. Imagine the Tesla chargers are often emptier. Which seems like it's drawing more traffic to your site? If you get money to install four more stalls, what's the breakdown on stalls you want to put in? Right now in North America, CCS chargers are already about 40% of all sites with >120 kW capability, maybe about 20-30% of the number of stalls. That's growing, because multiple networks are expanding rapidly, and then there's state and local governments which are often required to install open-standard charges if available, and Tesla's a proprietary standard.

 

[CyberGus]

There's an few issues with assuming that's good for Tesla. Imagine you're a rest stop, and you want to install chargers...

The legality/practicality of chargers at rest-stops is debatable. But, for chargers being placed in government-exclusive locations, they must be "fair". With the variety of standards in place, perhaps such charging stations should just be a metered NEMA 14-50 (or at least include this option with whatever other standard is deployed).

 

[jboy210]

Maybe I am selfish, but I like that Tesla superchargers are only for Tesla cars. Think of all the Ford, GM, VW, etc. cars taking up the SC stalls. There aren't many competitive EVs now but in a couple of years they will proliferate. Let them use the EA stations that number far less than SC stations and I will stick with SC.

I see it as a way for Tesla to create many more Superchargers with the money they get from other car companies and car owners. Imagine the convenience of Superchargers that were are ubiquitous as gas stations.

 

[cwerdna]

Here's another reason why Tesla shouldn't switch.

Look at the current 1st pic at PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You and the check-in by BarBoltEV on 1/8/21. He says:

While charging today I noticed that three of the four CCS plugs [fixed his typo] have broken clips. I have reported this to Electrify America but I want to warn others of the danger. Do not attempt to unplug if the charger is actively running, serious damage to the vehicle could occur. I’m also not sure who is breaking these plugs like this but I wish people could be more considerate

I actually know him from charging station encounters when he only had a Bolt. He now has a Taycan so he's enjoying his free 3 years of 30 minutes at a time sessions on Electrify America (since EA is VW of America owned and VW owns Porsche).

 

[EfficientWatts]

Here's another reason why Tesla shouldn't switch.

Look at the current 1st pic at PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You and the check-in by BarBoltEV on 1/8/21. He says:

I actually know him from charging station encounters when he only had a Bolt. He now has a Taycan so he's enjoying his free 3 years of 30 minutes at a time sessions on Electrify America (since EA is VW of America owned and VW owns Porsche).

Those clips being so exposed I feel are going to continue to be a problem with CCS Type 1 as we move forward; hopefully they can be made more durable. CCS Type 2 doesn't have the issue (like the Tesla connector), and Chaoji (the Chademo/GBT next gen connector) moved to vehicle side locking too as well to improve durability on the connector side.