Tesla now RENTS solar panels

[afadeev]

Regarding solar not saving you money you need to keep in mind that you are comparing the current prices for energy. The cost of energy will only go up and if you get solar now you are locking in your rate now. Technically, Tesla can raise the rate on the rental

Therein lie the two problems in the argument:
1. Tesla absolutely reserves the right to raise rates, so you are not locking in anything with Tesla's panel rental model. I would expect to at least index them for inflation.
2. There is no historical evidence that the electric utility rates go anywhere, but sideways.

Last 50+ years of statistical data eia.gov show that the real residential electricity rates have declined through the 60s, and then stabilized around 11c / kWh. In other words, nominal rates have been increased at a rate slower than inflation for the last five decades.

https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/showtext.php?t=ptb0810

My power is costing me about $2,600 a year so I am at a break even point on the large system but I know I want a hot tub, I want to run the air more and the pool pump more so I will get my moneys worth and know I won't pay more then $195 per month.

I'm close to your situation, Over the past four (4) years, my annual electricity consumption and payments have remained largely stable, right around $1.8K and 12 kWH / year. Which makes us borderline value propositions to Tesla and other solar providers.

I've spent months on the phone trying to get them to come out and quote me a system. Still haven't had any luck getting Tesla (or the other local solar providers) to even show up and provide an estimate for an installation. Petty comical.

Multiple calls with Tesla Solar have yielded zero actionable insight beyond what's on their web site. Their best advise for sizing can be summarized as "you figure it out, and let us know".

Or as their web site states:

• What's the right size for me?
  • The traditional way of selling solar is based on the incorrect notion that there is a ‘right’ amount of solar to have. The reality is that any amount of solar contributes to a sustainable energy future and makes money for customers when priced appropriately.

Yeah, right, money grows on trees.
Trees are good for the environment.
Just give us your money.

a

 

[vickh]

Good points. We have a belief in huge inflation, even though it might not be true for everything (except car prices )

I think electricity prices will drop over time given how much supply we have now

 

[Downtown]

Sadly they will not install on my wood shake roof. FWIW response time was very fast on a weekend.

 

[Jae001]

Tesla has now changed their wording to say Solar Subscription and not rental. They have also eliminated the $1,500 to remove the system. Does anyone know if this change in wording has changed the agreement. I have already signed the rental agreement for a rental. Tesla can't keep things the same for even a month without changing it. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Jae001]

Therein lie the two problems in the argument:
1. Tesla absolutely reserves the right to raise rates, so you are not locking in anything with Tesla's panel rental model. I would expect to at least index them for inflation.
2. There is no historical evidence that the electric utility rates go anywhere, but sideways.

Last 50+ years of statistical data eia.gov show that the real residential electricity rates have declined through the 60s, and then stabilized around 11c / kWh. In other words, nominal rates have been increased at a rate slower than inflation for the last five decades.

https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/showtext.php?t=ptb0810




I'm close to your situation, Over the past four (4) years, my annual electricity consumption and payments have remained largely stable, right around $1.8K and 12 kWH / year. Which makes us borderline value propositions to Tesla and other solar providers.

I've spent months on the phone trying to get them to come out and quote me a system. Still haven't had any luck getting Tesla (or the other local solar providers) to even show up and provide an estimate for an installation. Petty comical.

Multiple calls with Tesla Solar have yielded zero actionable insight beyond what's on their web site. Their best advise for sizing can be summarized as "you figure it out, and let us know".

Or as their web site states:

• What's the right size for me?
  • The traditional way of selling solar is based on the incorrect notion that there is a ‘right’ amount of solar to have. The reality is that any amount of solar contributes to a sustainable energy future and makes money for customers when priced appropriately.

Yeah, right, money grows on trees.
Trees are good for the environment.
Just give us your money.

a

Look this rental or now subscription model is not right for everyone. If you are going to be in your house for 10-30 years buying solar might be right but I still believe the panels produced today will be outdated in 5-10 years. Why do I want to buy or lease something that is going to be out dated and be locked in. Once these panels are outdated Tesla will replace them with newer ones or they can take them off my roof for free (the free part has just changed in the last week or so). Some parts of the country with stable energy rates this rental program doesn't make sense but if you live in Southern CA and pay .18 to .34 per kW this makes sense.

 

[one5n1neSDoo]

Sadly they will not install on my wood shake roof. FWIW response time was very fast on a weekend.

Yep. Wood shake requires a re-roof to another roofing material to be eligible for install by Tesla.

 

[one5n1neSDoo]

Tesla has now changed their wording to say Solar Subscription and not rental. They have also eliminated the $1,500 to remove the system. Does anyone know if this change in wording has changed the agreement. I have already signed the rental agreement for a rental. Tesla can't keep things the same for even a month without changing it. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

They didn't JUST change it. Check the footer of the latest document: V1.3, 9/7/19

 

[vickh]

They didn't JUST change it. Check the footer of the latest document: V1.3, 9/7/19

wonder if it's permanent or just for Sept.?

 

[Jae001]

They didn't JUST change it. Check the footer of the latest document: V1.3, 9/7/19

What did they change besides the no charge for removal? I don’t see a footer on the document.

 

[RLShky]

That’s good news, I need a new 200 A panel, my 100A is full!
Tesla won’t pay for the panel is what I hear and seems fair.

Personally I had to cancel my 7.6 kW solar panel rental because they downgraded me to a 3.8 kW system due to my small roof :. I need the larger system to break even, I will pay $1-2k more with the small system due to getting destroyed by SCE on TOU plan from 4-8pm ($0.35-0.48) vs $0.13 the rest of the day. Boooooooo

I’m new to looking into solar and just curious about how you figured that? With the little I know I’d assume that any solar would help reduce the costs especially living in LA where there’s a lot of sun. What would your savings be going with the 7.6 vs the 3.8?

 

[one5n1neSDoo]

wonder if it's permanent or just for Sept.?

Just for September per Elon's tweet.

What did they change besides the no charge for removal? I don’t see a footer on the document.

Not sure other than the removal fee. You can always use Word to do a document comparison. Bottom left of the agreement shows versioning.

 

[BM3B]

I’m new to looking into solar and just curious about how you figured that? With the little I know I’d assume that any solar would help reduce the costs especially living in LA where there’s a lot of sun. What would your savings be going with the 7.6 vs the 3.8?

I built a model to estimate the cost difference annually using historical usage, forecasted solar generation, and tiered (my plan today) vs time-of-use (TOU - what I have to switch to with solar). The 3.8 kw system does not generate enough to cover the more expensive peak usage, the 7.6 kW does but barely. In the end I would pay $400 more per year for the 7.6 kW system (including the Tesla rental), which is close enough to make it interesting. But the smaller system would cost me $1,000 more per year total. Adding a power wall helps but not enough to make it economical factoring the battery cost.

 

[vickh]

I built a model to estimate the cost difference annually using historical usage, forecasted solar generation, and tiered (my plan today) vs time-of-use (TOU - what I have to switch to with solar). The 3.8 kw system does not generate enough to cover the more expensive peak usage, the 7.6 kW does but barely. In the end I would pay $400 more per year for the 7.6 kW system (including the Tesla rental), which is close enough to make it interesting. But the smaller system would cost me $1,000 more per year total. Adding a power wall helps but not enough to make it economical factoring the battery cost.

hmm i have to check if APS makes me switch tou plans too,

 

[iamcaseyf]

hmm i have to check if APS makes me switch tou plans too,

i'd be interested in this too, working on a 11.4kW rental system now

 

[Jae001]

Good points. We have a belief in huge inflation, even though it might not be true for everything (except car prices )

I think electricity prices will drop over time given how much supply we have now

Don't fool yourself electricity prices will never go down. If anything they will go up as more restrictions are put on coal and nuclear power.

 

[iamcaseyf]

So I just got the layout back from Tesla, what are your guys' thoughts on not only placement but also hard product (panels, inverters)?

 

[rhaekar]

2. There is no historical evidence that the electric utility rates go anywhere, but sideways.

Last 50+ years of statistical data eia.gov show that the real residential electricity rates have declined through the 60s, and then stabilized around 11c / kWh. In other words, nominal rates have been increased at a rate slower than inflation for the last five decades.

Tell that to SDG&E. They keep raising their rates for their customers to pay for their mistakes.

 

[SureValla]

Tesla has now changed their wording to say Solar Subscription and not rental. They have also eliminated the $1,500 to remove the system. Does anyone know if this change in wording has changed the agreement. I have already signed the rental agreement for a rental. Tesla can't keep things the same for even a month without changing it. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

I just got a new contract with the 1500 removed. it now say removal at no cost

 

[TheTalkingMule]

.
I've spent months on the phone trying to get them to come out and quote me a system. Still haven't had any luck getting Tesla (or the other local solar providers) to even show up and provide an estimate for an installation. Petty comical.

Multiple calls with Tesla Solar have yielded zero actionable insight beyond what's on their web site. Their best advise for sizing can be summarized as "you figure it out, and let us know".

Buying solar in the US blows. Right now you can either deal with pushy salespeople in your living room or you can buy these new off-the-shelf products from Tesla. Neither is all that helpful, BUT.....at least the Tesla process can rapidly improve.

We're just a few months into the new online sales model. Gonna take them til the 4th of July to gain any semblance of rational servicing/onboarding.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

If you are going to be in your house for 10-30 years buying solar might be right but I still believe the panels produced today will be outdated in 5-10 years. Why do I want to buy or lease something that is going to be out dated and be locked in.

Solar panels produce electricity and have guaranteed rates of efficiency over time. They don't get "out dated".

I just put 330W panels on my roof knowing that 360W or 400W panels may be available in 2-5 years, but for a massive premium. So what? Panel tech always improves, but we've already made the vast majority of improvements on efficiency for PV.