Tesla Owners, Let's Talk: Touchscreen vs. Physical Buttons - What's Your Take?

[Zythryn]

Not only does your experience not match anyone else who's used Tesla's 'auto' wipers, it doesn't match anyone who's used auto wipers on any car.

While I don't disagree with your position in general, I have yet to talk to anyone driving any car, of any make who has found their auto wipers to be perfect. My previous car was a 2017 Audi A4. The auto wipers on it were about the best I've used and were still far from perfect, so in this case I think an absolute statement was warranted/reasonable.

Your response above was to a statement that the Tesla auto wipers work better than in most cars and basically worked well.

That is all I was responding to, not your original argument which used a different requirement of "perfect". As for your response to "as well or better", no, the absolute is misleading and erroneous. This is plain since you have 'talked' with numerous people who have had similar experiences.

 

[dgpcolorado]

You can also program defrost to the left steering wheel button...

I'll have to check the list in controls in the car to see if you can just defog with the button.

I prefer to leave the left button for the audio system. It can be used to set temperature (push and hold before scrolling for temp) but I find that a bit finicky. Easier to just use voice: "Set temperature at 68."

"Defogger on," Turn defogger off" are so easy that I haven't bothered with steering wheel buttons for climate control. Defrosting is best done while preheating the car or before actually driving anywhere, for safety reasons.

With the discussion of wipers upthread, I decided to play with them since we were having misting rain and snow. I usually keep wipers on auto and that generally works well enough, with an occasional push of the single wipe button. But I tried setting wipers to 1 and that is a lovely intermittent wiping speed for light rain/mist. I also found that I could do it with the command "set wipers at 1" or "set wipers at auto." (Using the word "to" leads to confusion, so avoid that.)

 

[drtimhill]

Um….not following your logic here. See my post above. How often I’m right is irrelevant to the argument.

See above:

"I'm not saying they are always wrong, simply that they are not always right."

So your complaint is that these features are not ALWAYS right? Good luck finding anything that meets THAT criteria, including you (and me).

 

[sleepydoc]

See above:

"I'm not saying they are always wrong, simply that they are not always right."

So your complaint is that these features are not ALWAYS right? Good luck finding anything that meets THAT criteria, including you (and me).

Yes, that’s precisely my point:

The argument was that the ‘Auto’ setting eliminated the need to use the touch screen and therefore any concerns with the usability of the touchscreen were irrelevant. For this argument to hold the Auto setting need to be near-perfect. I’ve shown how none of the auto settings are anywhere near perfect thus the argument fails.

I’m not trying to say I expect any auto feature to be perfect, quite the opposite. I’m saying that they aren’t perfect and never will be and therefore are not a substitute for controls.

Edit - I happened to be listening to the latest episode of the TMC podcast and right on queue they started talking about the problems with the auto wipers (at about 1:31:00 and again around 1:32:30) “Elon…can you please just put an intern on wipers! Like seriously, just put one intern focusing on wipers. That would make so many people happy!”

 

[drtimhill]

Yes, that’s precisely my point:

I’m not trying to say I expect any auto feature to be perfect, quite the opposite. I’m saying that they aren’t perfect and never will be and therefore are not a substitute for controls.

Edit - I happened to be listening to the latest episode of the TMC podcast and right on queue they started talking about the problems with the auto wipers (at about 1:31:00 and again around 1:32:30) “Elon…can you please just put an intern on wipers! Like seriously, just put one intern focusing on wipers. That would make so many people happy!”

They've been fixed. Really. Yeah, at some point someone broke them and we all got annoyed (rightly), and enough people pointed out they were broken that they got fixed.

Why do you think physical controls (buttons) are "perfect" ? They break all the time (cause, well, they are physical). You have to fumble around to find them (and yes you DO take your eyes off the road when you do that). Don't get me wrong, screens are not "perfect" either, but nothing is.

So do this for me. Look at all the options, settings etc in a Tesla. In your head, map those to individual buttons. Good luck trying to fit those into a dash .. it would look as complex as the flight deck of an airplane. And guess how often you would have to take your eyes off the road to figure out that mess!

 

[EVer Hopeful]

I like buttons so much that I had the glass roof replaced witha metal one and then retrofitted this:

The best part is that if you look closely you cansee Inow have grab handles too !

 

[sleepydoc]

They've been fixed. Really. Yeah, at some point someone broke them and we all got annoyed (rightly), and enough people pointed out they were broken that they got fixed.

Yes - the last update made the auto wipers a thousand times better (maybe they hired that intern? ) It’s winter here now so I don‘t have much cause to use the wipers so it’s hard for me to make a full assessment but the dry wipes are virtually eliminated.

Why do you think physical controls (buttons) are "perfect" ? They break all the time (cause, well, they are physical). You have to fumble around to find them (and yes you DO take your eyes off the road when you do that). Don't get me wrong, screens are not "perfect" either, but nothing is.

So do this for me. Look at all the options, settings etc in a Tesla. In your head, map those to individual buttons. Good luck trying to fit those into a dash .. it would look as complex as the flight deck of an airplane. And guess how often you would have to take your eyes off the road to figure out that mess!

”Break all the time?” I’ve never had any of the physical controls break in any of my cars - turn signals, cruise control buttons, heater controls… all of them have had perfect reliability (and that’s not hyperbole, it’s an actual 100%.)

If you read my past posts, I don’t think everything should be a button - the touchscreen has some definite advantages for certain tasks, but there are significant drawbacks to it. Other’s have posted pictures of layouts that make Italian mosaics look like something a preschooler made. I think many of the common and ’mission Critical’ features should have a physical control. The remainder are fine and better on screen.

As an additional point- the latest software update changed the monitoring (Nag) system so taking your eyes off the road for more that a 2 seconds (literally 2 seconds) results in a nag. Now I can’t change any of the controls without getting nagged.

 

[sleepydoc]

I like buttons so much that I had the glass roof replaced witha metal one and then retrofitted this:

View attachment 1011179



The best part is that if you look closely you cansee Inow have grab handles too !

I found a picture of the dashboard you want. All of the awful physical controls are gone. we no longer have to worry about them failing as they so often do. If you don’t like steering by touch controls, just use voice commands. Not only that, they’ve saved a fortune on parts so Tesla can make more money per car without changing the sales price.

 

[patmurphey]

I like buttons so much that I had the glass roof replaced witha metal one and then retrofitted this:

View attachment 1011179



The best part is that if you look closely you cansee Inow have grab handles too !

747 400? I recognize the Boeing brown from my 767 days. That panel is a statement about automation. You need to compare it to the 747 100s and 200s that I flew with the biggest collection of buttons switches and dials that you can imagine, so many that a flight engineer with monkey arms could barely work it.

Automation works and most systems on two-man crew airliners are automatic and redundant, normally without crew intervention even if failed.
Button lovers dream, this:

Plus this:

 

[EVer Hopeful]

Funny you should post that, but years ago I saw a film about the self-driving cars of the future, and one they showed had a steering wheel (a yoke type too!) that once the driver made it to the main road, folded in two and retreated into the dashboard so it looked exactly like this photo. The driver then had plenty of room to stretch out and relax

that was for Sleepydoc and the RHD dashboard

 

[Midpack]

It's been raining here, so I've had a chance to pay more attention to AUTO wipers. They work well enough in some conditions, but they're not perfect by any means. That's when I use voice commands, so far they've worked 100% of the time - there are other commands but all I need is WIPERS ON (sets to 2/4), WIPERS FASTER/SLOWER (up/down 1), WIPERS OFF or WIPER AUTO. I haven't used WIPERS MAX (4/4) or WIPER MIN (1/4) yet.

If anything less distracting than fiddling with buttons or stalks while driving.

Some people live to be outraged about nits...

 

[sleepydoc]

and I had another example of why the touch screen is worse this morning-
Started driving to work, encountered fairly dense fog. The auto brights came on making visibility much worse. In my other car I can turn them off without looking at a thing. In the Tesla I have to hit tap the screen to get the headlight menu, then read the headlight menu and find the right 'button' on it, forcing me to take my eyes off the road precisely when I need to keep them on the road.

Now, the apologists will make some claim like "use voice commands!" (they don't work for headlights) or "you should set things before you start!" (the conditions changed during the drive) or "just pull over!" (This was a 2 lane road with no effective shoulder.) The fact is, in every other car I drive I can make this change without looking away. Tesla has decided that they'd rather do away with 'ugly' controls to save money, have a 'clean' appearance or who knows what and compromise safety to do so.

 

[zoomer0056]

The fact is, in every other car I drive I can make this change without looking away.

Do these other cars have automatic headlights? So far, regular headlights work for me with one exception. I will manually put the brights on for a two mile stretch where deer cross. I don't use auto as I've read many posts like this where people have auto problems. Manual is much easier on my 2022 MSLR.

 

[sleepydoc]

Do these other cars have automatic headlights? So far, regular headlights work for me with one exception. I will manually put the brights on for a two mile stretch where deer cross. I don't use auto as I've read many posts like this where people have auto problems. Manual is much easier on my 2022 MSLR.

One car has auto on, but not auto high beams, the other has auto high beams.

Newer LED headlights are much better than the older incandescent lights - the low beams on my model Y were better than the high beams on our 10 year old odyssey (until I replaced them with LEDs). I agree with, though, low beams are usually plenty adequate on my MY. When I'm driving up to our cabin through northern Wisconsin I like to have the high beams on to watch for deer, just like you and since they've improved the algorithm the auto setting generally works quite well.

 

[EVer Hopeful]

and I had another example of why the touch screen is worse this morning-
Started driving to work, encountered fairly dense fog. The auto brights came on making visibility much worse. In my other car I can turn them off without looking at a thing. In the Tesla I have to hit tap the screen to get the headlight menu, then read the headlight menu and find the right 'button' on it, forcing me to take my eyes off the road precisely when I need to keep them on the road.

Now, the apologists will make some claim like "use voice commands!" (they don't work for headlights) or "you should set things before you start!" (the conditions changed during the drive) or "just pull over!" (This was a 2 lane road with no effective shoulder.) The fact is, in every other car I drive I can make this change without looking away. Tesla has decided that they'd rather do away with 'ugly' controls to save money, have a 'clean' appearance or who knows what and compromise safety to do so.

Hard to argue with what you say here. Perhaps there's a happy middle ground, like yes to a stalk for the lights and no to physical heating and a/c controls. My understanding is that the 4 way hazard lights have a physical button because it's a legal requirement. My understanding also is that one reason Tesla removed as many physical controls as possible (and would have removed a 4 way button too if they could) is that it's a move towards a fleet type of non-owned vehicles. A bit like Zip Car say instead of owning one specific vehicle, you get to own a membership in a pool and so instead of having to adjust everything when you pick up your pool vehicle, you gain access with your key card or phone and then the vehicle adjusts to your profile automatically

Even if that ever cam to pass, you could still have a physical stalk for the lights. It' not like there's much of a profile there

. . . and the yoke thing is ridiculous

 

[drtimhill]

Started driving to work, encountered fairly dense fog. The auto brights came on making visibility much worse. In my other car I can turn them off without looking at a thing. In the Tesla I have to hit tap the screen to get the headlight menu, then read the headlight menu and find the right 'button' on it, forcing me to take my eyes off the road precisely when I need to keep them on the road.

er .. you can turn that off using the left stalk.

 

[zroger73]

er .. you can turn that off using the left stalk.

Yep - I drove on a foggy night for the first time yesterday evening. The auto high beams came on inappropriately. I pushed the left stalk forward to turn off the automatic high beams. After driving out of the foggy area, I pushed the stalk once again to re-enable automatic high beams.

I believe that is the first time I have ever encountered driving in fog at night in my life.

 

[Midpack]

One car has auto on, but not auto high beams, the other has auto high beams.

Newer LED headlights are much better than the older incandescent lights - the low beams on my model Y were better than the high beams on our 10 year old odyssey (until I replaced them with LEDs). I agree with, though, low beams are usually plenty adequate on my MY. When I'm driving up to our cabin through northern Wisconsin I like to have the high beams on to watch for deer, just like you and since they've improved the algorithm the auto setting generally works quite well.

You can‘t find anything positive, so buy another make/model car if your Tesla is so unsatisfactory. Most of your complaints are exceptions or nits to many of us, but keep hammering over and over and over to no avail. For most of us the positives far outweigh the negatives, and we’ve never owned a perfect car.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Do these other cars have automatic headlights?

I had one other car that had automatic headlights by default, though other settings like off and on were available with a dial. However, automatic high/low beam was off by default, but switchable with one button. Manual high/low beam was controlled by pulling the turn signals stalk.

 

[sleepydoc]

er .. you can turn that off using the left stalk.

Tried that. It didn't work - just reactivates.