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Tesla Radar Speculation
- Thread starter Takaa
- Start date
With radar, you dont get:
-auto dry wipers
-auto blind the road ragers
-increased random slowdowns
With Radar you used to get:
>85 mph AP
-aggressive AP acceleration
- "1" following distance
-near perfect distance keeping
-reliable AP in inclement weather
Having lived through the transition and still getting phantom breaks, I would have much rather kept radar active
-auto dry wipers
-auto blind the road ragers
-increased random slowdowns
With Radar you used to get:
>85 mph AP
-aggressive AP acceleration
- "1" following distance
-near perfect distance keeping
-reliable AP in inclement weather
Having lived through the transition and still getting phantom breaks, I would have much rather kept radar active
Haha yea perhaps.. anyway the sales rep I picked up from said my car has no radar. Oh well..
When they turned off the radar I did NOT get increased random slowdowns. This is a huge YMMV.
2 scenarios:
-phantom braking: abrupt application of brakes and rapid slow down
-random slowdown: cruising down the road with AP active, 5~10 car lengths ahead of you, no one really in the adjacent lanes. Car begins losing speed more and more before you realize you've lost 10~15 mph of speed and the distance between the car ahead of you has greatly increased. Everyone behind you is pissed and passing you. You close the gap, car maintains speed for a bit, but without nannying it, the gap increases again and again.
Great definitions to separate the two terms, however I still did not get increased PB's or random slowdowns.
Did your car initially have radar that was subsequently turned off?
Just want to see if your experience changed with radar getting turned off, or you've driven your current car with Vision only the whole ownership experience.
For me: 2021 March MY LR w/radar subsequently turned off via a SW update
ArchHamster
Member
I'm probably one of the last people to still have a hw3 radared tesla without the radar removing update installed. My other tesla, my model x, has vision hw3 with v11 fsd beta. I know you weren't asking me but I'm one of the few people that can tell you how these systems currently compare without the bias of memory.
On a good day, I think v11 has finally surpassed radar on the things both can do well. That is radar noa and the v11 equivalent as well as driving on a road without intersections (curvy road included) and radar autosteer.
On a bad day, radar wins without question. My radar ap features are still active when I'm getting drenched with so much rain that I can't even see the road. My fsdv11 knocks me out of ap after moderate rain.
Until v11 hit me, vision lacked a confidence which radared teslas always had. A confidence that it wasn't about to run into something. When v10 fsdbeta was going on a narrow, marked, 2 lane road, it would brake with every other car which passed me. Radar never had this problem unless the oncoming car was coming into my lane. Radar really knows when something is infront of you. Now with v11, this behavior is mostly equivalent.
However, I can tell v11 still has the confidence issue. While it handles autosteer equivalent competency well, I feel the classic vision hesitation at turns in intersections. Radar can't do these things so I can't compare but I'm pretty confident radar will solve the now more uncommon braking v11 does in intersections. It feels like the same vision hesitancy which radar neutered cars have been suffering from up until now.
I'm considering updating my radar tesla to v11 after experiencing it in my x. While poor weather performance is worse, for the first time noa is better in v11 and I shouldn't be using ap in rain anyways. I am very jealous of new cars getting HD radar, however. I think fsd truly needs it, but at least I don't feel like hw3 was crippled all that much with the removal of radar now with v11. If hw3 never got v11, I'd be pretty angry. Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I have no doubt that radar helps in these situations, but I do have a question. When it's pouring rain, are you in TACC, or full AP (with steering)? I ask this because I've heard conflicting testimony from people on this. Radar can help keep distance to other vehicles, but cannot see lane lines. So if radar-equipped cars are using full AP in pouring rain, then the cameras can still see lane lines to auto-center the car, and in this case I think Tesla is just being very conservative with radar-disabled cars to avoid potential collisions and keep safety numbers up. If autosteer is disabled with radar, forcing you into TACC only, then that's a different scenario and I agree that radar can help when cameras cannot see the road properly. However, low-res radar (which Tesla used) does have issues with heavy rain reflections, so I'd still be concerned with accurate distance calcs and potential collision issues.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
FWIW I've never had rain knock me out of BASIC autopilot (keep current lane and speed/distance) except for one time in a downpour so heavy a human shouldn't be driving either.
I frequently had even moderate rain knock me out of NoA on the highway DOWN to basic AP though.... both before and after the vision code came to my radar-having car.
I frequently had even moderate rain knock me out of NoA on the highway DOWN to basic AP though.... both before and after the vision code came to my radar-having car.
No one has mispelled it in the last 2 pages... but I guess its a great way to derail a productive conversation to call out non-existent spelling errors?
Phantom Spelling Errors?
scottf200
Well-Known Member
"Still" getting these on our 2017 Model X (MCU1->2 & upgraded FSD computer) ... not sure if some didn't come from getting on the FSDbeta software fork.
I'm not on the 'single stack' FSDbeta OTA yet and was just on a road trip. Ended up turning on FSDbeta and going just with AP as I couldn't tell what was causing all the bizarre behavior ... of slow downs, braking, or just repeated/illogical lane change request.
Now home and back on FSDbeta and waiting for latest and greatest FSDbeta that is rolling out in mass starting today.
ArchHamster
Member
I have to think about this for a moment but I've never been forced into TACC by either system. It either degrades me to Autosteer or disables AP entirely. On kicking me out of AP, i've had vision do this to me when driving towards the sun or in bad weather. For sun driven disengagements, that hasn't happened to me in a long time. Since earlier versions of v10 (but I also clean my cameras religiously after they get rained on, I hear this has still happened with some v10 people after a rain storm, and they forget to clean their cameras the next day). For radar.... it was when a semi tire was in the road...
You know, come to think of it, maybe when the red wheel takes over the screen for both systems, telling you AP failed and you must take over, it's in TACC for that brief period. I'm not sure, I've never stayed in that mode. I'm so shocked by the red warning and the loud beeping that I take over almost immediately. In either case, after getting the red wheel warning (which is maybe a TACC mode), if the conditions haven't improved, then it doesn't let me re-engage AP or FSD. Maybe this makes some sense because TACC in both my cars (I'm honestly not even sure if my vision FSD beta car still has TACC) uses the cameras, they both have stop sign detection and stop light detection. So if the cameras are so degraded that the car can't even autosteer, then maybe the devs don't have enough confidence that TACC could watch for the stop sign or stop light visual queues either.
It's worth noting that I only very briefly had my vision X before I got into the FSD Beta program, so I don't have much comments on comparing the soon legacy FSD (none FSD beta) with Radar. It could totally be Tesla being overly cautious with FSD Beta, but I could also see it as noise level rising with FSD detecting more things. It's like with voice processing. If you are only processing a few key words, you can detect those words pretty easily and consistently, but the more words you add, the more errors prone previous voice detection becomes, requiring more and more sophisticated processing methods.
I think people who were really worried about radar removal will be very satisfied with v11.
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