Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot

[azred]

This will be fun. While we are awaiting the fully featured and “solved” FSD product Musk promised for December 2017, we can take solace that the beloved “nags” will be even more extensive and wonderful.


If Musk would just shut his pie hole Tesla would get a lot less attention from regulators. Perhaps when he joins the Trump Cabinet in 2024 he will be able to squelch the regulators because shutting up his big mouth in the meantime isn’t in his DNA.

 

[TSLY]

Hope they add HUD and bird's eye view with this OTA.
Just kidding!

 

[redmunds]

8 people out of 2,000,000 ruined common sense for everyone.

That article is behind a paywall, so I couldn't read it. How did we get from "nearly 1,000 crashes" to "8 people" ?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

“Autopilot has been turned off for failure to have your hands on the wheel. If this happens four more times, autopilot will be disabled."

Sounds like you have FSD Beta, though to be honest I have no idea if similar strikes have been implemented on standard Autosteer - I thought they had not been.

Should be easy enough to tell, anyway. It’s right there on the screen (and the app I think if you poke around).

So what is the summary here of someone knowledgeable’s best guess of what this software update will do to non-FSD cars, exactly? Sounds like 1) more driver monitoring (do they use camera already and can they even add it to 2.5 vehicles?). And 2) maybe more limitations on where it can be engaged and remain engaged (seems potentially serious impact). But I am not paying attention so hoped for a quick synopsis that everyone can agree upon ( ).

 

[MP3Mike]

So what is the summary here of someone knowledgeable’s best guess of what this software update will do to non-FSD cars, exactly? Sounds like 1) more driver monitoring (do they use camera already and can they even add it to 2.5 vehicles?). And 2) maybe more limitations on where it can be engaged and remain engaged (seems potentially serious impact). But I am not paying attention so hoped for a quick synopsis that everyone can agree upon ( ).

I think you pretty much got it. I'm guessing:

• Bring FSDb level of nags to standard Autosteer.
• Bring FSDb strike-out system to standard Autosteer.
• If equipped with an in-cabin camera require it to not be covered. (standard Autosteer currently doesn't care.)
• Possibly increase restrictions about where standard Autosteer can be enabled. (Unclear.)
• Possibly increase nags/notifications when using standard Autosteer outside of controlled highways and near traffic control devices.
  • It is possible that they mean that standard Autosteer will forcibly hand control back to the driver in these situations, but we won't know until people get it and test it.

Who knows if HW2/HW2.5 can support the selfie camera... The patch for that hardware hasn't been developed yet. (Maybe NHTSA will end up forcing a retrofit?)

 

[AndrewZ]

Bingo, it's nothing more than Tesla bashing and a lot probably comes from the "short-sellers". But the few always screw over the many in situations like this.

I would take a difference stance and suggest two things:

1. The best way to avoid perception and other issues around software-related recalls would be to sell vehicles wherein safety-related aspects of the software are ironclad and will not be recalled.
2. The perception and other issues around software-related recalls will be part of what motivates manufacturers to follow the philosophy in point 1 thus protecting consumers.

If this wasn't in place, it wouldn't be long before carmakers would be selling cars with software they treat like video games released full of bugs to bring in revenue $$$ and then patched for two years until they actually work properly -- that can\t be allowed on public roads.

 

[azred]

I think you pretty much got it. I'm guessing:

• Bring FSDb level of nags to standard Autosteer.
• Bring FSDb strike-out system to standard Autosteer.
• If equipped with an in-cabin camera require it to not be covered. (standard Autosteer currently doesn't care.)
• Possibly increase restrictions about where standard Autosteer can be enabled. (Unclear.)
• Possibly increase nags/notifications when using standard Autosteer outside of controlled highways and near traffic control devices.
  • It is possible that they mean that standard Autosteer will forcibly hand control back to the driver in these situations, but we won't know until people get it and test it.

Who knows if HW2/HW2.5 can support the selfie camera... The patch for that hardware hasn't been developed yet. (Maybe NHTSA will end up forcing a retrofit?)

I have had FSDb on three Teslas and nags are frequent, presumably due to my lack of consistent pressure on the steering wheels. (Definitely not for more egregious behavior.) Are you saying those without FSDb are more frequently nagged? Seems had to believe if that’s the case.

 

[MP3Mike]

Are you saying those without FSDb are more frequently nagged?

No, I'm saying that those without FSDb are currently nagged less, and that they will be nagged the same after the update.

 

[Darmie]

It amazes me of the many statistical crashes on the roads and highways that are investigated by NHTSA, they only want Tesla to do recalls.
Chalk this up as another example this administration does not want Tesla to succeed.

Update:
Oh no, they ticked off mom. Now it's the FCC.

 

[Two-rocks]

No, I'm saying that those without FSDb are currently nagged less, and that they will be nagged the same after the update.

YMMV - but my FSDb trial last month seems to have the same level of nags.
On Autopilot now (sub ended - waste of money!), the nag happens the second my eyes look at the screen.
However, I can (and do) block the camera and everything still works (and can look at the screen for a couple seconds - i read slooow) - that camera blocking may end with the recall

 

[SidetrackedSue]

that camera blocking may end with the recall

Sunglasses is the next line of defense that those of us on FSDb use.

And thinking about it, I have the same level of nag on both AP and FSDb now but it took me a really long time to master the right amount of torque. In my case, two hands on the wheel and looking at the road had me balancing out the wheel torque so it didn't detect my hands and I didn't see the screen warnings because I wasn't looking at the screen, I was looking where I was going.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I think you pretty much got it. I'm guessing:

• Bring FSDb level of nags to standard Autosteer.
• Bring FSDb strike-out system to standard Autosteer.
• If equipped with an in-cabin camera require it to not be covered. (standard Autosteer currently doesn't care.)
• Possibly increase restrictions about where standard Autosteer can be enabled. (Unclear.)
• Possibly increase nags/notifications when using standard Autosteer outside of controlled highways and near traffic control devices.
  • It is possible that they mean that standard Autosteer will forcibly hand control back to the driver in these situations, but we won't know until people get it and test it.

Who knows if HW2/HW2.5 can support the selfie camera... The patch for that hardware hasn't been developed yet. (Maybe NHTSA will end up forcing a retrofit?)

• Increase warnings to users when they try to engage Autosteer and it cannot be enabled.

The letter from NHTSA emphasized issues with attention, and with awareness of when it was enabled or not.

The NHTSA tends be very utilitarian on driver assistance so I don't anticipate a restriction of use. They focus on the importance of driver awareness.

 

[navguy12]

I haven't read this yet but haven't seen it posted anywhere so far, here's Tesla's own page about the recall that may include additional details

https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-firmware-prevent-autosteer-misuse

Vehicles in Canada are affected as well

@ the discussion above with Knightshade, this quote either clarifies things or does nothing at all

I wonder how this will be materially different than the current SOP:

If the little grey steering wheel icon (at the top, near the speed readout) shows up, that means I can double tap the shifter, which will turn that icon blue and get Autosteer.

If the little steering wheel icon doesn’t show, double tapping the shifter does nothing except cause a warning tone (and warning description) to tell me that the conditions for autosteer haven’t been met.

Been like this for years, so I’m not understanding what will materially change; either the conditions are met and an icon appears or they aren’t and it doesn’t appear.

 

[afadeev]

Sounds like FSDb won't be impacted since it is designed to operate on almost all roads.

Are you sure about that?
Tesla claimed AP should work on all roads, then inserted a disclaimer in the manual.
Now they got their b*lls in the NHTSA wise for talking out of both corners of their mouth.

This will only impact regular AP. I suspect Tesla will disallow use on all roads that are not controlled access.

That is exactly the question that is most relevant to Tesla owners.

This will be a big negative for AP1 vehicles, which might push some to opt for newer FSDb capable models.

Big negative for 90+% of Tesla owners (AP1 - 42) who did not fall for the FSD scam.

So this recall could be perceived as a win for Tesla...

 

[ArchHamster]

I think you pretty much got it. I'm guessing:

• Bring FSDb level of nags to standard Autosteer.
• Bring FSDb strike-out system to standard Autosteer.
• If equipped with an in-cabin camera require it to not be covered. (standard Autosteer currently doesn't care.)
• Possibly increase restrictions about where standard Autosteer can be enabled. (Unclear.)
• Possibly increase nags/notifications when using standard Autosteer outside of controlled highways and near traffic control devices.
  • It is possible that they mean that standard Autosteer will forcibly hand control back to the driver in these situations, but we won't know until people get it and test it.

Who knows if HW2/HW2.5 can support the selfie camera... The patch for that hardware hasn't been developed yet. (Maybe NHTSA will end up forcing a retrofit?)

Tesla really needs to get a statement out clarifying what's going to happen but they may not fully know yet or might be still trying to negotiate behind the scenes.

My guess is that fsd beta nags will be coming to everyone with autopilot l but those without driver monitoring cameras will be geofenced to only use autopilot on interstates/highways.

 

[zroger73]

I find that frequent warnings themselves are a safety risk.

CAR: beep beep beep
ME: Looks down to read warning message to see what the beep was for
CAR: BEEP BEEP BEEP!!! "Please keep your eyes on the road!"
ME: But...you...just...oh, eff it - nevermind.

 

[navguy12]

This response is incredibly helpful and answers fully what to expect, what software update, and roughly in what order. Looks like I'll be jumping from 2023.27.7 (11.4.7.3) to 2023.44.30. As I don't have wifi at my parking spot, it will be interesting to see if this is sent to my car via the LTE network (some previous ones were installed that way.)

Thank you for posting the link to all the answers.

OT sidebar: I also don’t have wifi where I park.

And I have been looking at the stupid orange “update is available“ icon for the past six weeks.

Finally, after two attempts to download the latest navigation update via my phone (as wifi hotspot), I did the 17 minute drive to the Tesla service center parking lot and used their wifi (which took 15 minutes) to download the new nav data and clear that bothersome icon.

 

[stopcrazypp]

It amazes me of the many statistical crashes on the roads and highways that are investigated by NHTSA, they only want Tesla to do recalls.
Chalk this up as another example this administration does not want Tesla to succeed.

There are multiple reasons for this:
1) Tesla is the only automaker that instantly knows when a crash happens on ADAS for practically any incident. Other automakers have to rely on other forms of reporting and those do not always indicate if ADAS was active. The only system that probably comes close is OnStar, but even then I'm not sure if the system reports to GM if you don't buy the subscription, nor if it reports if ADAS was active in a crash.

2) Tesla is the only (relatively large) automaker that does regular non-infotainment OTAs, so the ease of implementing a recall like this is very high. Thus NHTSA is more likely to call for one because it's not as hard for Tesla to do one.

 

[EarlyM3Owner]

this is so dumb. We have to stop calling software updates "recalls". No vehicle is being recalled or taken back for correction of anything. oh how the times are not a changin...

 

[Mardak]

NHTSA. This isn't about safety. If it was then there is so much more to overregulate first.

To be fair, NHTSA is probably also getting pressure that there's X deaths and Y accidents that have already happened with Autopilot… "what are you doing about it?" Is it some absolute threshold or percentage or just political pressure that gets Tesla targeted?

In aggregate across all manufacturers, the number of vehicles like HW1 ("first generation Autopilot hardware: one camera, a first-generation radar and ultrasonic sensors") is probably pretty significant if NHTSA really believes this is about safety overall.