Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot

[sublimejackman]

Release notes for the "recall" from this post:



Looks like a nothing burger.

Thankfully it looks like no increase in nags on the Highway, that was my big concern.

Also, if you go through that NHTSA data it looks like a lot of the accidents being reported are at intersections. Hopefully this solves those.

 

[EVNow]

Brand image?! Man, that's what I'm trying to defend here. Every time Tesla lies, stretches the truth, ofuscates range, etc... that tarnishes the brand image. And that's just the start of the image issues Tesla has. God help you if you need service (or interact with any Tesla employee for that matter).

That just sounds like a disgruntled user.

For people at large - AP/FSD (nobody knows the difference) creates the aura of a company on the edge of tech.

FSD is useless to 99% of drivers in 2023.

Thats just plain BS. Its not like you have tried all 100% of routes in the US.

BTW, do you even have FSD ?

It's a pain in my rear, that's what Microsoft is.

No Comments.

 

[FordMME]

@uscbucsfan @sublimejackman @EVNow @MP3Mike re the last page of discussion…

If you have to keep your hand on the wheel (and my guess is that’s gonna be a more stringent requirement after this recall update), what is the point of FSD? Especially at that price?

To me, it sounds like monitoring a teenage driver on a learners permit. How is that more relaxing or convenient? Not flaming - genuinely curious. Doesn’t sound more relaxing to me at all if I have to actively monitor every little turn and keep my hand on the wheel.

Or do you guys just think it’s fun to participate in this experiment? I mean, to each his own. I get the cool factor. But for that kind of money? Wow, I just don’t see it.

 

[EVNow]

If you have to keep your hand on the wheel (and my guess is that’s gonna be a more stringent requirement after this recall update), what is the point of FSD? Especially at that price?

If you aren't keeping your hands on the wheel, you shouldn't be using FSD.

I always keep my hands on the wheel.

If you are only interested in a level 4 FSD, current fsd beta is not for you ! That doesn't mean its not for anyone else.

 

[boonedocks]

@uscbucsfan @sublimejackman @EVNow @MP3Mike re the last page of discussion…

If you have to keep your hand on the wheel (and my guess is that’s gonna be a more stringent requirement after this recall update), what is the point of FSD? Especially at that price?

To me, it sounds like monitoring a teenage driver on a learners permit. How is that more relaxing or convenient? Not flaming - genuinely curious. Doesn’t sound more relaxing to me at all if I have to actively monitor every little turn and keep my hand on the wheel.

Or do you guys just think it’s fun to participate in this experiment? I mean, to each his own. I get the cool factor. But for that kind of money? Wow, I just don’t see it.

I dropped FSD B ~5 months ago and have REALLY enjoyed the difference in "hands on the wheel" and "eyes on the road? offered by the "free" AutoPilot. It is so much easier to drive endless miles of expressway on A/P than FSD B and no extra cost. I hope Tesla doesn't seriously nerf basic A/P especially expressway use with the "recall"

 

[zroger73]

Or do you guys just think it’s fun to participate in this experiment? I mean, to each his own. I get the cool factor. But for that kind of money? Wow, I just don’t see it.

For me, it was mostly a curiosity and something to amaze friends, family, and coworkers. I found $200/month worth of value in it for five months. Once my curiosity was satisfied and I ran out of people to show the feature off to, I began to lose interest and it was no longer worth the subscription price. If I see significant improvements to FSD V12, I may try it again. If it ever gets to the point of actually being able to drive me to work and back without supervision or intervention at least as safely as I can drive during my lifetime (I don't require it to be more safe than a human, but that would certainly be welcome), I will throw money at Tesla.

What would really disappoint me, though is if Tesla was forced to cripple Autopilot to the point that it became no more useful than the adaptive cruise control and lane centering feature in my Hondas, which worked anywhere (though not very well).

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Release notes for the "recall" from this post:



No mention of requiring the camera to be uncovered...

No distinct description of what this means and how it will be determined:

"— Increased strictness of driver attention requirements when using Autosteer and approaching traffic lights and stop signs off highway"

If they put the camera requirement in FSDb to insure driver attention, then why concluded they won't in AP and declare this a nothing-burger?

 

[SidetrackedSue]

What would really disappoint me, though is if Tesla was forced to cripple Autopilot to the point that it became no more useful than the adaptive cruise control and lane centering feature in my Hondas, which worked anywhere (though not very well).

But isn't that the definition of Autopilot? From Tesla's description of Autopilot:

• Traffic-Aware Cruise Control: Matches the speed of your car to that of the surrounding traffic
• Autosteer: Assists in steering within a clearly marked lane, and uses traffic-aware cruise control

 

[beatle]

Is there going to be an update pushed on us AP1/MCU1 cars that hardly get updates in general?

Will I not be able to autosteer except on highways?

This will be a big downgrade. I had a Nissan Leaf with Propilot, that autosteered only on the highway. It would sometimes work on side streets with 2 lanes, until the lane lines momentarily disappeared in an intersection. It worked well and I enjoyed it. It was my first experience with such a feature.

But I've gotten very used to AP1's "propilot at all speeds" the past year.

These are all good questions. I'm not sure. This recall is extra interesting because it includes all cars and doesn't call out FSD bv name - it only refers to autopilot.

Personally I don't find a highway limitation to be a problem since I always found babysitting the car's steering to be more stressful than just doing it myself, but I can understand the frustration of having a system that has certain features and then having them removed.

I have long wished Tesla would have just focused on getting higher levels of autonomy on the highway in the first place instead of trying to shoot the moon by having the car also navigate city / secondary streets on its own. I wonder if they had taken that course if we'd be in a better place from a highway autonomy perspective.

 

[MP3Mike]

@uscbucsfan @sublimejackman @EVNow @MP3Mike re the last page of discussion…

If you have to keep your hand on the wheel (and my guess is that’s gonna be a more stringent requirement after this recall update), what is the point of FSD? Especially at that price?

To me, it sounds like monitoring a teenage driver on a learners permit. How is that more relaxing or convenient? Not flaming - genuinely curious. Doesn’t sound more relaxing to me at all if I have to actively monitor every little turn and keep my hand on the wheel.

While yes you have to keep your hands on the wheel, and monitor it, it is much more relaxing for me than manually driving. I agree it doesn't make sense, but monitoring takes way less effort/concentration than driving does. (And I think I can actually pay more attention to what is happening around me, which makes things safer.) I am just telling you my experience with it. I will buy, or subscribe to, FSD on every new vehicle I purchase.

I don't think it is going to be more stringent for FSDb, I think basic Autosteer will just be brought up to the FSDb level of stringency. (Autosteer is really lacking right now.)

If you have to keep your hand on the wheel (and my guess is that’s gonna be a more stringent requirement after this recall update), what is the point of FSD? Especially at that price?

What is the point of BlueCruise when it doesn't have near the capabilities of FSD and you still have to monitor it? (It does only cost ~40% as much as FSD, at least until they decide to raise the price again.)

 

[zroger73]

But isn't that the definition of Autopilot? From Tesla's description of Autopilot:

Honda's steering assist would not limit its operation to controlled-access highways nor would it lock me out if I accumulated too many false alerts or inattention events.

 

[MP3Mike]

If they put the camera requirement in FSDb to insure driver attention, then why concluded they won't in AP and declare this a nothing-burger?

I didn't say they didn't put camera requirements in the recall, just that it wasn't mentioned in the release notes. (I fully expect them to enforce camera requirements, which they do not currently do for basic Autosteer.)

But I still consider all of these changes reasonable, and a nothing-burger. (No apparent additional restrictions on where basic Autosteer can be enabled. If they restricted it to controlled access highways, that would not be a nothing-burger.)

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Honda's steering assist would not limit its operation to controlled-access highways nor would it lock me out if I accumulated too many false alerts or inattention events.

<and from your prior post>


What would really disappoint me, though is if Tesla was forced to cripple Autopilot

I was pointing out that what you feared Autopilot would be crippled to, is actually all that Autopilot has ever been.

I have no experience with any ADAS on my prior cars except for basic cruise control, and had no 'auto' features on my previous cars. But I have no difficulty believing that the vast majority of cars offering and charging for features like TACC, lane keep, auto wipers, auto headlamps, blind spot warnings and park-assist features have them implemented in ways that are more reliable, or easier to engage, or more effective than on my Tesla which is supposed to have the latest and greatest according to Elon and the fan-boys.

 

[sublimejackman]

@uscbucsfan @sublimejackman @EVNow @MP3Mike re the last page of discussion…

If you have to keep your hand on the wheel (and my guess is that’s gonna be a more stringent requirement after this recall update), what is the point of FSD? Especially at that price?

To me, it sounds like monitoring a teenage driver on a learners permit. How is that more relaxing or convenient? Not flaming - genuinely curious. Doesn’t sound more relaxing to me at all if I have to actively monitor every little turn and keep my hand on the wheel.

Or do you guys just think it’s fun to participate in this experiment? I mean, to each his own. I get the cool factor. But for that kind of money? Wow, I just don’t see it.

Exactly! It's a cool demo of what the future will hold

 

[sublimejackman]

Thats just plain BS. Its not like you have tried all 100% of routes in the US.

BTW, do you even have FSD ?

I presently do not. I used to have it. I purchased it with my first 2017 Model S. when I had to sell that car (COVID hit my business REAL hard) in 2020 the buyer couldn't care less. The "full self driving" I was promised on a stack of bibles by multiple Tesla employees (including the CEO of the company) in 2017 had failed to materialize. And I spent additional money over EAP for nothing.

In my next Tesla, a Model 3, I did subscribe to FSD for two months last fall and did enroll in the beta program. It was really cool but far far far from what was promised in 2017. As another person mentioned, I basically showed it off for a few months but eventually realized I just wasn't using it and cancelled the subscription.

Currently, in my HW3 Model S, I do not have it. I would like to have EAP (and that's a whole seperate saga with Tesla and what software does and doesn't not come with a used sale).

But really, until FSD is picking me up at the gym or the bar, I'll let other people train the AI.

That just sounds like a disgruntled user.

I'm really just regular gruntled these days. I love my older Model S. I have it without any strings and Tesla subscription free. Already has the HW3 upgrade and as you know will probably never need any major maintence if I treat it nicely. I would, however, prefer to live in a world where Tesla honored its word, didn't attempt to gaslight us, worked with its paying customers and treated us better than meat sacks for training Dojo.

 

[enemji]

@uscbucsfan @sublimejackman @EVNow @MP3Mike re the last page of discussion…

If you have to keep your hand on the wheel (and my guess is that’s gonna be a more stringent requirement after this recall update), what is the point of FSD? Especially at that price?

To me, it sounds like monitoring a teenage driver on a learners permit. How is that more relaxing or convenient? Not flaming - genuinely curious. Doesn’t sound more relaxing to me at all if I have to actively monitor every little turn and keep my hand on the wheel.

Or do you guys just think it’s fun to participate in this experiment? I mean, to each his own. I get the cool factor. But for that kind of money? Wow, I just don’t see it.

I had the exact same concerns till I started using it and slowly and steadily found out its quirks and areas of confidence. As of now, the only real time I need to pay attention to it's driving is construction zones. Otherwise it will drive, and get you where you need to be. I have also learned not to panic if and when it misses an exit, as it will reroute itself, and get you there.

 

[JB47394]

OK, but specifically on this issue, what is the solution? headline writers have very very few words to use. They can’t explain what OTA means and still have space to say what the “recall” is for. They can only say “recall” then leave the lengthy explaination for the story itself.

Start with the assumption that the word "recall" doesn't exist, then proceed to write your headline.

"Tesla required to update autopilot over misuse concerns"

versus these headlines

"Tesla recalls nearly all 2 million of its vehicles on US roads"
"Tesla recalls 2 million cars over autopilot misuse concerns"
"Tesla Recalls Autopilot Software in 2 Million Vehicles"

Mine seems like a weird title because it doesn't use "recall", which is the most important thing about this event, right? But it being a "recall" isn't what's important. What's important is that NHTSA is requiring Tesla to make some changes to the way Autopilot works. The fact that it's using the "recall" process to get it done is pretty uninteresting. But if could be worked into the story as a technical detail.

 

[gillmj24]

Yes older cars will be updated later. As long as it just changes the pay attention behavior and doesn't remove autosteer for ~30-50mph not-quite-interstate roads, I'm good.

https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-firmware-prevent-autosteer-misuse

 

[AndrewZ]

Recalls are for defective software too, not just physical parts, when it pertains to public safety and will become all the more important if cars move further and further in the direction of OTA updates and being computers on wheels.

This whole process ties into the legal realm along with the antiquated snail mail notices that people seem to also be complaining about. If this process wasn't followed for defective software, you'll end up with more cases in courts where people say they never received this OTA update or weren't contacted yadda yadda so the regulators or Tesla should share the responsibility for damages / injuries / fatalities.

Much of this is driven by action in courts, this NHTSA investigation is a result of all the Autopilot lawsuits etc and the recall process is there to resolve them and front-run future legal action.

And this again will become important if, for example, someone dodges the recall update by cutting connectivity on the car and then gets into an accident with damages/injuries they want someone else to be accountable for -- this stuff actually happens.

 

[EVNow]

The "full self driving" I was promised on a stack of bibles by multiple Tesla employees (including the CEO of the company) in 2017 had failed to materialize.

Behind every disgruntled user I see someone who didn't do the homework. It sounded fantastical when Elon promised FSD by the end of the year (every year going back a few years) - so I never believed it. I bought FSD to enjoy the regular updates and be able to experience it as it got better (or worse !).

As I've posted numerous times here - it is a great ADAS feature for people who have spent the time to understand its limitations and are ready to monitor and takeover when needed. Its invaluable for me at night, when raining. Othertimes its a great, relaxing drive.