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Tesla removes regenerative braking strength option

PACEMD

Active Member
Aug 8, 2019
1,104
1,660
Billings, MT, USA
In 10 winters of Minnesota winter driving I have not had a single issue with the normal regen setting.
I know of others that prefer using the low setting, and I do always have winter tires.

Right, Montana winter driving here, low regen is that last thing I want on snow and ice. Control on snow and ice is also worse at full charge when regen is limited. Having full regen is not at all equivalent to slamming on the brakes on ice....... just have to retrain your brain to drive with different tools. Regen used properly has much better control under such conditions. My P3D, with full regen, is a very good winter vehicle here in Montana. And I have stock tires.
 
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MorrisonHiker

S 100D 2021.4.18.2
Mar 8, 2015
9,836
9,207
Colorado
I have an august 2020 built AWD and I still have both options. 2020.40.8
It's amazing we're past 100 posts in this thread so far and I don't think anyone in this thread has actually reported the option is missing for them. Maybe the car missing the option just needed a reboot?

I once had a mechanic who couldn't figure out a recurring brake light switch issue ask if I was driving with two feet. I said no, laughed at him and said I had never even heard of anyone ever doing that! Then I told everyone I know how silly he was.

The first 3 people I told the story to all told me they drive with two feet. :eek::eek::eek:
Have you ever driven a car with a manual transmission?

My first two cars had a manual transmission. When I went on a test drive in an automatic, I accidentally braked with my left foot since I'd been using it for years on the clutch. I quickly found out that the amount of pressure needed to push the brake is a lot less than that used to push in the clutch. :eek:
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
9,530
10,726
Riverside Co. CA
It's amazing we're past 100 posts in this thread so far and I don't think anyone in this thread has actually reported the option is missing for them. Maybe the car missing the option just needed a reboot?

I agree. I asked this waaay up thread, because people were trotting out "electrek" as a definitive source, and electrek is quite a few things, but a "discerning news organization" is not one of them. There has been a lot of angst in this thread, gnashing of teeth, and a few people reporting "I still have this option"

So, I am waiting for a number of people who have new cars to report that they DONT have the option of low regen in the car, AND IF THATS THE CASE the lack of low regen setting persists after the car receives its first OTA update and is no longer on the "factory" one.

Until multiple people start reporting that, I dont believe this is a thing, just because "electrek reported it".
 

TIppy

Active Member
Jul 8, 2016
1,515
1,119
Tampa, FL
Coasting only works for hypermiling with an ice where your option is to either brake or use engine compression to maintain speed. Both of those methods convert the energy to heat. With a bev you can store the excess energy you get by driving slower in the battery.

Here's a plot of the energy remaining for a car coasting vs regen.

Model3CoastingFromRest.png

Green and black are the car's speed as it ramps up from rest due to gravity.
The other four colors are what remains of the original potential energy as the car descends the hill. Blue is for coasting at the drag limited speed of 90 mph (40.2 m/s). Cyan is for using regen to maintain 80 mph (35.7 m/s) assuming 100 percent efficiency. Red is regen at 90 percent efficiency and magenta is using the brakes to maintain 80 mph. The horizontal axis is time.

The Blue gets to the bottom first, but only has it's kinetic energy left. The others(except using brakes) take longer to reach the bottom but have a combined (kinetic energy + battery chemical energy) remainng energy greater than that for coasting. That means they will be able to go higher up the other side of the valley.

Here's the plot for starting at 80 mph at the top of the hill, so the initial energy is potential + kinetic.

Model3CoastingFromSpeed.png


I used data from a better route planner for the power required to maintain a given speed for a performance model 3. Mass used was 1847 kg and the total vertical descent was 1000 meters.
 
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TIppy

Active Member
Jul 8, 2016
1,515
1,119
Tampa, FL
Here's the plot from above that started at 80 mph but the horizontal axis is distance down the hill instead of time. Notice how small the distance between the magenta and blue curve(brakes vs coasting) is compared to that of the blue and red(90 percent regen vs coasting).

Model3CoastingFromSpeedDistance.png
 
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Ugene

Member
Nov 21, 2018
66
32
Seattle
I've seen a few people suggesting that low regen is better in winter. I've driven one full Quebec winter with normal regen and have found the regen and stability/traction system to be great. I'm happy to see some other people agree with me.

Now, one person here has put a finger on something: if you remove your foot from the accelerator abruptly to go to the brake, it might slip for a fraction of a second. Sure, anytime you do something abrupt, the stability system will need a little moment to compensate. Letting go of the accelerator quickly is equivalent to pushing brakes hard in an EV. Try hitting the brakes hard and see how much time it takes before ABS recovers. It's the same for the regen and traction control. It is great but don't purposefully do any harsh maneuvers in winter.

With that said, with proper winter driving, and proper tires, I (and others) have found the regen system in the Tesla Model 3 to be very capable, similar to ABS. It is not necessarily true of other EVs. Some will plain cut regen when they sense slippage, and that is an extremely bad feeling when you drive.

I find the same to be true for motor power. I for one don't want to use chill mode in winter... why would I cut myself from potential power. I can modulate power with my right foot, and the traction control does a great job if I'm not careful. In fact it even limits too much IMO, but I recognize that is subjective.

I think you were getting to the right point - Chill Mode and Low Regen just remap your foot sensitivity to be able to modulate the accelerator pedal. I see a few people agree with you in this thread that this these modes are not needed for real winter driving.

However, my experience is different. While I drive practically all the time in Sport and Normal Regen on the snow, when conditions are really slippery, I mean really, I do turn Chill+Low. And the reason is that I don't feel that my foot can modulate the accelerator well enough for the conditions, the curves and the speed I want to maintain. Now, it can be that your ability to modulate the pedal is better than mine even though I find my safe driving is considerably faster than most drivers on the road even in nasty conditions. But it also can be that when things get really slippery I drive 2x faster than you and that I drive when you decide to seat it out. You never know. It is hard to really compare. The bottom line is that I _can_ get through winter driving without Chill and Low Regen modes but I _choose_ to use them, very infrequently, though.
(FYI: I do use winter tires in winter but my priorities prompted me to get "performance winter tires" which are really closer to good all-seasons than to proper winters)
 

GtiMart

Member
Nov 13, 2019
979
820
Quebec City, Canada
Yeah, I get it. Anyway, the fact I don't use it doesn't mean it's not useful for some. I have a gripe against the myth that gets propagated that using low/chill is mandatory in winter, not with the fact you choose to use it. I'm always for more flexibility and options so I would still prefer that this type if thing remain possible. I don't understand why they remove it. If it's for UI simplification, you can always make an advanced section with warnings...
 
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Ugene

Member
Nov 21, 2018
66
32
Seattle
Yeah, I get it. Anyway, the fact I don't use it doesn't mean it's not useful for some. I have a gripe against the myth that gets propagated that using low/chill is mandatory in winter, not with the fact you choose to use it. I'm always for more flexibility and options so I would still prefer that this type if thing remain possible. I don't understand why they remove it. If it's for UI simplification, you can always make an advanced section with warnings...

RE: "using low/chill is mandatory in winter": not mandatory but I imagine there's a good percentage of drivers that would feel safer driving on the snow and ice with low regen. I was giving a spirited driver POV.

I'll be very sorry to loose low regen. My Model 3P was never a perfect car on the snow but last winter a combination of some subtle improvements V10 update brought and my neurons adjusting to the car's dynamics made me a fairly confident driver on the snow and I went around many SUVs, Subarus and the like. I had fun and low regen sometimes helped to feel safe[r] while having fun.
 
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Az_Rael

Supporting Member
Jan 26, 2016
5,634
8,816
Palmdale, CA
I agree. I asked this waaay up thread, because people were trotting out "electrek" as a definitive source, and electrek is quite a few things, but a "discerning news organization" is not one of them. There has been a lot of angst in this thread, gnashing of teeth, and a few people reporting "I still have this option"

So, I am waiting for a number of people who have new cars to report that they DONT have the option of low regen in the car, AND IF THATS THE CASE the lack of low regen setting persists after the car receives its first OTA update and is no longer on the "factory" one.

Until multiple people start reporting that, I dont believe this is a thing, just because "electrek reported it".


I wonder if new owners might not know its missing. Our new S doesn’t have the option and the only reason I know that is because we are prior owners AND I saw the article and looked (we normally drive on standard, I wouldn’t have noticed it missing until I had a reason to turn low on).

Will report back once we get a software update. Right now the car is on 2020.40.4.5
 

Mutant

Member
Oct 20, 2020
46
53
Waterloo, ON
So with no option to set vehicle regenerative braking to "low", how is an owner supposed to burnish the brakes after installing new brake pads/rotors Do It Yourself - Model 3

Are they going to add this option to the service menu or are we going to have to visit a Tesla service center to have this performed?
 

Murdock

Member
Feb 27, 2017
15
10
Paradise Valley. Az
Why after 8 years we no longer have low Regen braking. I have not read of anyone having issues with low Regen braking. I also live in the upper Midwest with snow. Simply switch to standard if snow or ice conditions exist.
Would like to order number 2 X, but have second thoughts about the change.
Elon... give us the option, and charge extra if necessary. It’s like, people pay attention to the conditions.
 

pp61

Active Member
Jan 19, 2016
1,362
62
Switzerland
I wonder if new owners might not know its missing. Our new S doesn’t have the option and the only reason I know that is because we are prior owners AND I saw the article and looked (we normally drive on standard, I wouldn’t have noticed it missing until I had a reason to turn low on).

Will report back once we get a software update. Right now the car is on 2020.40.4.5

Agree, on Tesla number 3 now and never put this on low. Also not in the snow here in Switzerland....
 
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