Tesla replacing ultrasonic sensors with Tesla Vision

[Daniel in SD]

They had to maintain two sets previously: HW3 with radar vs HW3 without radar (AKA Vision). They decided to just move all HW3 to Vision instead of maintaining the split, even though they didn't reach single stack yet (for highway vs city). I can see them wanting to do the same with USS, basically once the ON version is good enough, they may move all HW3 to the same code and just drop USS completely from all HW3. Presumably it'll be for similar reasons, their engineers will have an easier time going forward, especially if they have UI design changes in the future.

I wonder if the USS display even uses HW3 or if it uses only the MCU.
I'm very skeptical they'll be able to match the performance of the USS with the current camera setup.

 

[ord3r]

Agreed with Daniel, current camera setup seems non-ideal. I would have expected them making this move if they added front bumper or proximity cameras.

 

[momo3605]

I wonder if the USS display even uses HW3 or if it uses only the MCU.
I'm very skeptical they'll be able to match the performance of the USS with the current camera setup.

They may not be able to match it, but it’s too late, they’ve already started releasing cars without sensors. They’re going to have to try to release some sort of vision based substitute whether it sucks or not.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

They had to maintain two sets previously: HW3 with radar vs HW3 without radar (AKA Vision). They decided to just move all HW3 to Vision instead of maintaining the split, even though they didn't reach single stack yet (for highway vs city).

Right…this makes sense because obviously they'd need two sets of code to develop and maintain and they'd never get equivalent performance. A real mess!

I can see them wanting to do the same with USS, basically once the ON version is good enough, they may move all HW3 to the same code and just drop USS completely from all HW3.

I mean, sure, if ON is way better under all circumstances, I suppose they could. And no one would care.

But if the parity isn't there, there's not two sets of code (other than for other hardware types, etc., etc. but that's a side issue). There's just one set of code for manual operation, with ON and USS. And users with the option get to choose which one (or possibly both) is enabled for manual parking. I just don't see the problem. Or they just leave USS on all the time for people with it if it works that way. Merging them would be a little extra work so I could see them avoiding that but merging isn't necessary anyway.

Of course for the autonomous stuff they'll drop the USS (wherever it is still used) as soon as possible, but no one cares about that.


Anyway, I'm looking forward to the ON telling me when I'm about the hit the curb in front with the front lip. When I can get within 3-4 inches of a dangerous curb I'll believe! Haven't hit a curb with this car yet, but it's a huge hazard that USS can't address. It'll be super cool when it doesn't panic about 3-4 inch curbs, but lets you know about the ones that will scrape (definitely don't want it flagging the parking stops if they're not too high - that would be a big regression).

It's just so easy with the USS to let your mind wander when parking and misjudge it and the next thing you know you've scraped, so I always end up parked too far back which presents its own hazards. Occupancy network is finally going to solve this!

Anyway, it's definitely much more interesting to figure out how they're going to make all this (Smart Summon, Smart Park, etc.) work on HW2.5! I guess for that they can just leave the select sliders to only allow USS and just let those poor cars fumble around parking lots. Maybe they'll just start giving HW3 away for free as they already have been; maybe that's an early concession, though perhaps not all the people who have received free hardware had EAP? More likely those people with EAP HW2.5 are just going to be stuck with what they've got though.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

What doesn't? Autopark? Since the update to vision it works very reliably, and can finally park in spaces without requiring other cars around too.

It's still slower than a human, but no longer painfully/unusably slow-- and recognizing there's a spot there has improved drastically from the non-vision version.





Because they can't see to the left/right very far. Most other cars with rear collision warnings do so with side/rear facing radars.

But again it's objectively more dangerous to back out of a spot-- even if manually parking you can certainly back yourself in and not have to worry about did your car warn you enough during an unsafe exit.

That's not an excuse, it's a fact- back in parking is safer regardless of the systems the car has or not.

For 15K (which I did NOT pay) it's lame

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

For 15K (which I did NOT pay) it's lame

For $6k I guess it is 2.5x less lame. Which may still be lame.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

For $6k I guess it is 2.5x less lame. Which may still be lame.

That's what I paid and that should be the MAX maybe less and from the quotes I've gotten FSD does not increase offer

 

[jeremymc7]

They may not be able to match it, but it’s too late, they’ve already started releasing cars without sensors. They’re going to have to try to release some sort of vision based substitute whether it sucks or not.

Have the body molds been updated to blank out holes and have a smooth and unbroken piece?

Or are they just using existing panels (for now) and putting blank caps without sensors in to fill the hole, like with tow hook access covers are on many cars?

 

[jeremymc7]

Wonder if the next beta release will have US omitted from from the code. It's been a while since the last update and even that version is farther dated compared to release version.

Would US get omitted from beta or public release first? What did they do with Radar?

 

[ohmman]

Have the body molds been updated to blank out holes and have a smooth and unbroken piece?

Or are they just using existing panels (for now) and putting blank caps without sensors in to fill the hole, like with tow hook access covers are on many cars?

I've seen pictures of smooth bumpers, so I think the former.

 

[jabloomf1230]

I've seen pictures of smooth bumpers, so I think the former.

It's my impression that the holes for the USS are punched after the plastic bumper is molded and painted, so all Tesla did was probably drop the final punch step. This isn't Tesla, but the process seems pretty standard:

Laser Sensor Detects Black Bumpers in Assembly Cell

Quality Components Support Assembly and Solutions in the Automotive Industry

www.turck.us

 

[jeremymc7]

Seems logical RE bumpers.

Now question #2 will Vision w/ Ultrasonic support removed be in public or beta first? What happened when Radar was removed.

Beta would seem a logical limited testing ground. Provided they're not already capturing the data now and just not applying it yet.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Now question #2 will Vision w/ Ultrasonic support removed be in public or beta first? What happened when Laser was removed.

No reason that will happen anytime soon unless Tesla extremely unexpectedly, for the first time in history, comes up with something spectacular. And Tesla never had lasers.

USS aren’t going anywhere; they are great (with limitations).

 

[jeremymc7]

No reason that will happen anytime soon unless Tesla extremely unexpectedly, for the first time in history, comes up with something spectacular. And Tesla never had lasers.

USS aren’t going anywhere; they are great (with limitations).

Sorry meant Radar

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It’s interesting there is so much debate about USS functionality being removed from existing vehicles when right on the website they say they don’t plan to. Admittedly plans could change, but that would presumably only be in the massive positive outcome case. Very unlikely that FSD Beta program would be any different.

Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision | Tesla Support

Safety is at the core of our design and engineering decisions. In 2021, we began our transition to Tesla Vision by removing radar from Model 3 and Model Y, followed by Model S and Model X in 2022. Today, in most regions around the globe, these vehicles now rely on Tesla Vision, our camera-based...

www.tesla.com

 

[Knightshade]

I imagine the confusion is because Tesla DID end up disabling use of radar on cars equipped with it when they moved fully to vision (FSDb cars for example- which are still limited to 85 mph max speed and min follow of 2, both worse than what radar cars can do)

As you point out though Tesla clarified they had no current plans to transition off US at this time

 

[Dewg]

Now question #2 will Vision w/ Ultrasonic support removed be in public or beta first? What happened when Radar was removed.

Radar wasn't disabled in the existing fleet for many months (16 months for 3/Y, 7 months for S/X). Shortly after radar was removed from the vehicles, those in FSD Beta had their radar disabled for Vision Only. Since early/mid 2021, FSD Beta has been Vision Only. They helped validate the Vision Only solution, which was then rolled out to the fleet (those new cars without radar installed), and as additional validation was complete on FSD Beta users, features started rolling back to the general code branch (speed increases, lower follow distance, etc).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I imagine the confusion is because Tesla DID end up disabling use of radar on cars equipped with it when they moved fully to vision

Right, but as mentioned radar is different because no one actually used it (tightly defined definition of "used").

And Tesla never made any promises on not removing radar functionality, from what I can tell (since that would have been insane). Certainly not at the outset or even 15 or so months later:

Transitioning to Tesla Vision

We are continuing the transition to Tesla Vision, our camera-based Autopilot system. With Tesla Vision, Tesla vehicles will rely on camera vision and neural net processing to deliver Autopilot, Full-Self Driving capabilities and certain active safety features.

web.archive.org

 

[SwissY]

Thank you all for such laughter!!
I have been reading the forums here in the German speaking world (Switzerland/Germany/Austria) to help me decide if I should take delivery in a few weeks of my non-USS model Y performance or not.

I thought I’d come here to see what other parts of the planet are saying about the removal of USS. It seems there is a bit less frustration in this forum, but still it is noticeable. What there is MORE of are great quips and and snarky remarks! omg. I literally had to hold on my laughter lest I wake my husband sleeping next to me.

Anyway, just as an FYI for you all pondering if they will remove USS in an OTA update, Word in the ground at the Tesla dealerships here in Switzerland and Germany is “yes”… Despite what is written on the website of there being no current plan to do so. I have no current plan to take a *sugar* in the morning. But tomorrow morning I’m sure I’ll have a plan to do so before I head off to work.

Anyway, a lot of us are putting our orders on hold, changing the configuration to something with super long delivery times (e.g. the new red color! Or white seats), or simply telling Tesla to sod off by canceling orders. It’ll be interesting to see if they really have a Q4 like they need to… For the first time ever I think, there are hundreds of unallocated Made In China LRs that are available for immediate purchase across Europe. I’m sure the USS removal had nothing to do with that (end sarcasm).

 

[Boza]

Right, but as mentioned radar is different because no one actually used it (tightly defined definition of "used").

My car was happily using the radar for AP until the latest update.

And Tesla never made any promises on not removing radar functionality, from what I can tell (since that would have been insane).

By this logic, they have not promised not to remove the wheels either. The whole concept of substantially changing the product _after_ you made a decision to buy it is very, very questionable.