axck
New Member
I did buy mine post-price cuts, but very fair point.Why should you pay them to put something back on a brand new car when they didn't even reduce the cost to make up for the lost sensors in the first place?
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I did buy mine post-price cuts, but very fair point.Why should you pay them to put something back on a brand new car when they didn't even reduce the cost to make up for the lost sensors in the first place?
If they planned to drop them and had no plans to add them back in the future, why would they leave the harness in? That's just wasted spending. I can see it totally being supply, just that they had this move planned out instead of last minute. Tesla sold 1.25 million units last year and each car uses 12 of them. That's a lot of sensors, as I pointed out previously, likely way more than other manufacturers (given USS does not come standard in many of them).That’s what makes me think ’supply issues’ is not the issue. (FWIW I’ve only seen that posited here, never from any official source or from anyone with access to a source.)
If the sensors were the issue it would be easy enough to ship the cars with the wiring harnesses already in place. They could even have the holes punched in the bumpers covered with temporary plugs. Removing bumpers isn’t that difficult and they could easily retrofit the sensors once available. If they wanted to.
Exactly. It had nothign to do with shortages.If they planned to drop them and had no plans to add them back in the future, why would they leave the harness in?
How does that mean it has nothing to do with shortages? Component purchasing has lead times, Tesla's vendors will tell Tesla if there is a supply shortage ahead of time and Tesla can plan for it (including removing an option permanently). What you are saying is a non sequitur (just because it is planned does not mean it has nothing to do with shortages).Exactly. It had nothign to do with shortages.
Good question. I've been on TMC for just over a year, and I keep reading about lawsuits. A few people hinted at small claims suites. There's been stories about class action lawsuits, but nothing has gone to trial yet.I fail to understand why there is still no class action suit about this issue? Tesla has misled and lied to hundreds of thousands of customers about forthcoming solution. Since there is no solution in sight, shouldn't they be punished for what they did? Or maybe we should convince authorities somehow to start investigation on how this all happened in the first place?
With the sensor issue in particular, it appears that Tesla has been notifying customers of the change before delivery and giving them the option to cancel their order. If that’s true then Tesla has done everything required of it and there are no grounds for a suit.I fail to understand why there is still no class action suit about this issue? Tesla has misled and lied to hundreds of thousands of customers about forthcoming solution. Since there is no solution in sight, shouldn't they be punished for what they did? Or maybe we should convince authorities somehow to start investigation on how this all happened in the first place?
Yep, they can keep an intern working on achieving performance parity until all the vehicles are off the road. In the context of Tesla's long term mission "near future" is obviously relative to the age of the universe.With the sensor issue in particular, it appears that Tesla has been notifying customers of the change before delivery and giving them the option to cancel their order. If that’s true then Tesla has done everything required of it and there are no grounds for a suit.
Yes, that seems to be the difference with previous cases (like AP2). In this case they made it clear there is no specific time table and they put a disclaimer when you take delivery to give a chance for people to cancel (which some did). In AP2, they instead had a specific date on the order page that came and went, and people were able to get a successful class action through. Here in the US, people can literally sue for anything, regardless of merits, but I guess class action lawyers will evaluate if a lawsuit is worth it in the first place (and I doubt anyone will want to spend their own money on it out of pocket to start one for something that seems relatively minor, and is worth as most a few hundred dollars).With the sensor issue in particular, it appears that Tesla has been notifying customers of the change before delivery and giving them the option to cancel their order. If that’s true then Tesla has done everything required of it and there are no grounds for a suit.
WindshieldHave you seen this?
"Cameras, rear, side and front"
So on Febr 22nd Tesla Europe announces that every new Tesla is equiped with front-cameras...
Do they talk about a bumper camera? Or the windshield camera?
Very clever! This would not be your ordinary Elon Musk job description...Yep, they can keep an intern working on achieving performance parity until all the vehicles are off the road.
So what I said above applies to new purchases, but what about existing owners? If/when Tesla disables the sensors they have for a system that’s incomplete or less capable, are they liable?Yes, that seems to be the difference with previous cases (like AP2). In this case they made it clear there is no specific time table and they put a disclaimer when you take delivery to give a chance for people to cancel (which some did). In AP2, they instead had a specific date on the order page that came and went, and people were able to get a successful class action through. Here in the US, people can literally sue for anything, regardless of merits, but I guess class action lawyers will evaluate if a lawsuit is worth it in the first place (and I doubt anyone will want to spend their own money on it out of pocket to start one for something that seems relatively minor, and is worth as most a few hundred dollars).
People keep asking why Tesla (whether officially through the website, or unofficially when reps are asked) does not give an estimate, and this is likely why. Even if internally they have a time table, they are typically not rewarded for being transparent, especially if there is high likelihood of delays. There are too many sue happy people in the US.
Presumably you are talking about Vision? It is uncharted waters for cars given Tesla's pretty much the first to introduce the software platform model for cars. For other electronic devices, the case I'm reminded of is battery gate for Apple, the settlement is still working through the court system:So what I said above applies to new purchases, but what about existing owners? If/when Tesla disables the sensors they have for a system that’s incomplete or less capable, are they liable?
They won’t, of course. As you say it makes no sense at all (and it is a little strange that people think they might, even though Tesla explicitly says they won’t). The only case where they might is if Tesla Vision ends up being better in all situations, even when the camera vision is obscured and the USS are not. Seems unlikely, given performance of ultrasonics in the rain, and their positioning on the bumpers. This is presumably why they say no plans to do so at this time - Tesla does not think it is possible for Tesla Vision to do the job of USS.I hope to god they don't ever disable USS, at least for simple manual Park Assist functionality
Unfortunately I wouldn’t be so sure - Tesla has done boneheaded things like this in the past.They won’t, of course. As you say it makes no sense at all (and it is a little strange that people think they might, even though Tesla explicitly says they won’t). The only case where they might is if Tesla Vision ends up being better in all situations, even when the camera vision is obscured and the USS are not. Seems unlikely, given performance of ultrasonics in the rain, and their positioning on the bumpers. This is presumably why they say no plans to do so at this time - Tesla does not think it is possible for Tesla Vision to do the job of USS.
Not exactly, they just sent an email with the same wording as in Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision | Tesla Support Other Europe. They didn't mention free cancellation or delaying the delivery. Also note that it was "For a short period of time" and "In the near future". What exactly is a short period of time? 1 month, 2 months? The vehicle was delivered in November.With the sensor issue in particular, it appears that Tesla has been notifying customers of the change before delivery and giving them the option to cancel their order. If that’s true then Tesla has done everything required of it and there are no grounds for a suit.