And this tells us that GM does not share this goal. Their goal is obviously to prevent others (Tesla) "stealing" their sales. Although they thereby help to meet Tesla's goal, this is a difference that may mean something to some customers ...
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Tesla Says Model 3 Will Be On Sale 2017 Alongside Chevy Bolt
- Thread starter igotzzoom
- Start date
And this tells us that GM does not share this goal. Their goal is obviously to prevent others (Tesla) "stealing" their sales. Although they thereby help to meet Tesla's goal, this is a difference that may mean something to some customers ...
Trev Page
Member
Being first doesn't mean it's better. GM is claiming to be "first!" and to gain some cred and headlines before the hammer drops in March.
In any case, the Bolt and Model 3 are targeted at completely different markets.
I'll keep repeating it: Bolt is an econobox with an expensive battery. It's amenities and quality is good enough to keep the complaints to a minimum but despite the 200 mile stated range, the lack of a compelling long-distance charging network that adds value ("free travel for life") is an on-going problem. We've seen from LEAF sales that there's a market for affordable pure BEVs regarless of range and it will surely steal a lot of customers from Nissan until the second gen LEAF is out, and that's if Nissan can at least match the Bolt in several feature categories.
Model 3 is a BMW 3 series competitor. The massive reduction in battery costs from the Gigafactory will allow Tesla to offer a much more compelling and feature-appointed BEV than the others, even though the media keeps harping on the $35K price point as the basis of their competitiveness.
Model 3 will *start* @ $35k and go up from there with more battery options, better features and of course: Supercharger access. Expect prices to hit $55K, maybe more.
The way I see it GM made a car that hits just enough bullet points to break the psychological barrier to BEV adoption. Tesla is going after the largest middle-class luxury car: BMW 3 series.
As for the BMW i3, let's just say I wouldn't want to be in their shoes when the hammer drops. The i3 will need a lot of extra stuff to stay competitive and justify it's price when Model 3 arrives. By 2018 the i3 will probably be discontinued and replaced with an i5.
In time we might see cheaper cars from Tesla to compete in the lower end low-margin market unless they make a conscious decision to stay out of it and cede it to other like Apple does in the computer business. Time will tell.
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Breezy
Member
It's interesting to see people proclaiming with certainty that a Model 3, a car they've never seen, we'll be vastly superior to a Bolt EV, a car they've never driven.
But we've seen all the cars GM and Tesla have built, so far. I think it's a safe assumption.
We've seen all the expensive cars that Tesla have built. Hope they can distill that Tesla magic on a car that costs 35% less on average.But we've seen all the cars GM and Tesla have built, so far. I think it's a safe assumption.
Priorities will also be different on a mass-market car like Model 3 than Model S or X. I imagine there being a much greater emphasis on reliability and quality, which are priorities different from being groundbreaking or different.
Because they're a new company, Tesla arguably have been able to push the boundaries of what's possible at the expense of reliability. Mass market buyers are less likely to accept door handle or motor failures than early adopters. That said, Tesla is much larger organization now than 2012, so hopefully they can achieve more of both.
Luckily, with the introduction of the Model X, they've done away with door handles. And with the newer revisions of drivetrains, the milling, humming, and clunking issues are gone.
But we've seen all the cars GM and Tesla have built, so far. I think it's a safe assumption.
Definitely a safe assumption. Just one example is the Model 3 will likely come with auto-pilot hardware if not standard then definitely optional. That alone will drive many to purchase the 3.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
You can repeat it forever. It is not true.
Yes, the Bolt is almost certainly an inferior car priced outside of its class but Bolt and Model 3 are both small electric four door cars. You can get either in the mid thirties low forties and they will be cross shopped.
Some will only consider the Tesla because it is a better car others will only consider the Bolt because they don't have a local Tesla service center and feel safer with a local Chevy dealer. But that is how it works in all segments of the automarket.
As much as GM may protest Bolt is not a Crossover Utility Vehicle. Its ground clearance is that of a car/hatchback and does not offer the high seating position nor the commanding view of the road so many people love about CUV/SUVs.
Big-T
Member
My guess is that this means they'll start taking deposits before the end of 2017, but considering their Q4 numbers on model X deliveries I can't believe anyone (except MAYBE founders) would see delivery of a production model 3 in the next 353 days.
etm33
Member
Uhmmm...end of 2017 is 718 days.
I do think that, like Model X, Model 3 will not experience any meaningful number of deliveries before the end of 2017, but 2018 should be a good year.
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
The probability is very high that Model 3 will not be a front-wheel drive econobox with a torsion beam rear suspension.
It's not 100% certain either that the next generation BMW 3-Series or Mercedes C-Class will be vastly superior to a Honda Fit. Anyone want to bet on this?
bigbear
Member
The Model 3 has to ship on time, very, very close to it. The scale of the investments to bring the Model 3 to market won't allow a lot of slack. There's about $1.5 billion spent on the Gigafactory at that point, plus the Fremont factory upgrades. They can't expect to ship Model S + X at the 200,000 vehicle rate. The S demand managed to cover the delay in the X. It is unlikely the S+X can cover for the doubling of the factory + Gigafactory phase 1. Musk himself has said so in interviews last year.
Breezy
Member
I'm glad you're so convinced Tesla will be able to deliver a quality, reliable, luxury/performance BEV for $35k. We'll see what rolls off the assembly line in 2018.
But we all know you will.. But it's ok to wait for after the TM3 event....
Then it's time to count down to production start, then to you get the configurer, then for your car enter production, and then for your car been delivered. From then on you may start counting up
bigbear
Member
so many countdowns ahead for us!But we all know you will.. But it's ok to wait for after the TM3 event....
Actually I don't think they'll be able to. I believe 35K is the magic number price they talk about and almost every one they sell will be over 40K, whereas the Bolt may very well have all sorts of lease deals to increase demand. I predict that the Model 3 will be a superior car to the Bolt, but the average selling price for the Model 3 will also be far higher than the average selling price of the Bolt.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
I do. It was the time when I kept telling my colleagues with absolut sincerity that the Model S would be my next car.
Now I am telling them with absolut sincerity that the Model 3 will be my next car. :wink:
