Tesla (the company) killing itself slowly?

[neroden]

It could be a number of things.....maybe it's not as bad as members on TMC make it out to be.

It's worse.

If the serious fans are having this much trouble, just try to imagine what ordinary people without "connections" are experiencing.

Communication needs to improve.

There appears to be someone at executive level in Tesla who is deliberately obstructing communications with customers. I have a contact at Fremont who agrees that the current situation is unacceptable, but she's been unable to get even the most basic problem fixed for a week. I have contacted the Board to see if that will help.

 

[PWlakewood]

@neroden
@M3BlueGeorgia

Please feel free to contribute to the discussion and provide substance on why you blindly disagree with my posts. Or at least contribute something positive to the discussion.

 

[PWlakewood]

At the end of 2018 tesla had sold 532,000 . What percentage of those owners do you think belong to TMC?

 

[PWlakewood]

.......crickets.......again........ of course.

 

[kavyboy]

.......crickets.......again........ of course.

*cough*

 

[PWlakewood]

*cough*

Of course.....you interrupted the crickets......back to waiting.........

 

[Big Toys]

Did you even consider that maybe the majority has had positive experiences? I recommend tesla to everyone I talk to because I base it on my experiences not what i read online. What's that saying again.......oh yeah......if it's on the internet it must be true

I can't tell you. But consider: If you don't have 3 SCs in your area, you are forced to deal with the system as it is currently designed, which is little to no customer service interaction when you need it. Since no one denies that there are serious systemic issues, it is necessary to presume that anyone with a need for human interaction is likely to encounter the same broken system we talk about here. It would be an improbable deduction that in so many interactions with a broken SC model that the majority of interactions would be positive.

 

[PWlakewood]

I can't tell you. But consider: If you don't have 3 SCs in your area, you are forced to deal with the system as it currently is, which is little to no customer service interaction when you need it. Since no one denies that there are serious systemic issues, it is necessary to presume that anyone with a need for human interaction is likely to encounter the same broken system we talk about here. It would be an improbable deduction that in so many interactions with a broken SC model that the majority of interactions would be positive.

From my own personal experience and from taking to other owners in person almost all have had positive experiences. If there was a more widespread issue why arent the shorts and media capitalizing on it. No one has a good answer......

 

[Barry]

Anyone buying a Tesla today must understand one thing. The MOMENT you take delivery you no longer matter as a customer, you're usefulness to Tesla has ran it's course. The company is broken, and getting worse. Some of the service stories, like this one, are appalling and should never happen. Yet we still get plenty of fanboys chime in with their heads buried deeeepppp in the sand, much like mine used to be until I got to experience the "new" Tesla...

Wow, I could have written this post.

I'll add that while Musk is great at start-ups, he's clueless when it comes to turning Tesla into a profitable company. Many a company have gone bust by expanding too quickly. They need a new CEO.

 

[PWlakewood]

At the end of 2018 tesla had sold 532,000 . What percentage of those owners do you think belong to TMC?

Still looking for an answer to this. I get the impression that no one wants to divulge the numbers because it will show that a very small percentage of tesla owners are on this forum which would also slow how small the number is that come here to discuss the issues they are having.

Tesla will rectify the problems at some point. It may not be in the timeframes that some of you want or the way you want but do you really think they want to lose market share after all they have gained.

 

[VifferFun]

My thoughts are the some people will have amazing experiences with Tesla and others will have horrible experiences. I do think that TMC has a "selection bias" in that people are more likely to post questions about issues they're encountering than to write a post about how they've experienced no issues in the last X days.

I know two people with Teslas and they love the car, but concede that the service they have receive is abysmal (at least since the release of the Model 3).

My limited experience (since I don't have my Model S yet) has been with the Tesla store -- they shipped me an incorrect Wall Connector and took 30 days (eek!) to simply respond to my email (since there's no way to phone them). I had to send a follow-up question to their response and I'll be shocked if they respond in less than 30 days. It doesn't sound like my experience with the store is unique.

I really hope Tesla gets their act together on the client experience because their greatest marketing tool, for better or for worse, is their existing clients. Whether your experience has been amazing or subpar, I think Tesla has a lot of improving to do before they offer client service similar to other luxury car manufacturers (which is also imperfect, but significantly better than Tesla).

 

[Ofarlig]

My thoughts are the some people will have amazing experiences with Tesla and others will have horrible experiences. I do think that TMC has a "selection bias" in that people are more likely to post questions about issues they're encountering than to write a post about how they've experienced no issues in the last X days.

I know two people with Teslas and they love the car, but concede that the service they have receive is abysmal (at least since the release of the Model 3).

My limited experience (since I don't have my Model S yet) has been with the Tesla store -- they shipped me an incorrect Wall Connector and took 30 days (eek!) to simply respond to my email (since there's no way to phone them). I had to send a follow-up question to their response and I'll be shocked if they respond in less than 30 days. It doesn't sound like my experience with the store is unique.

I really hope Tesla gets their act together on the client experience because their greatest marketing tool, for better or for worse, is their existing clients. Whether your experience has been amazing or subpar, I think Tesla has a lot of improving to do before they offer client service similar to other luxury car manufacturers (which is also imperfect, but significantly better than Tesla).

To be fair Tesla has a lot of good stuff in what they offer their customers that’s way above what other manufacturers are offering. One example is mobile service for short appointments that can come home to you and also over here the option to do mobile service at certain ”hubs”, these hubs are in the garages of big malls. So you could just park your car there and go to some stores and then it is done.

I also think the idea of booking appointments in the app (or car when it starts to warn you about problems) is great. They can read the logs and give you direct feedback and all that.

They have great stuff that the other manufacturers could be envious off, they just need to find a way to keep it working now that they are pushing out more cars. It is just important that the new policies they come out with are actually considered good by the owners and they continue to improve.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Holy carp, this thread got railroaded.

Back to the topic, I’ll go ahead and add my own experience(I’ve mentioned this in another thread, but spread out through multiple posts and not in this area).

It started off with my charge port door no longer opening when pressed(other forms of opening still worked) and Autopilot frequently aborting randomly when traveling on the freeway(started with 2019.8.5 so thought it was software for a while). Then my wife’s key fob shorted out and I figured it was time to schedule service. I used the app and was able to schedule mobile service just a few days out.

The mobile service appointment time came and the tech very quickly replaced the keyfob(after first checking if there was any way he could fix it so we wouldn’t have to pay for that part since we’re on the extended warranty) and fixed the charge port door by just unscrewing the button a little bit so it stuck out further. Took a test drive with me and verified the autopilot issue. When we got back, he found a service bulletin about a similar issue suggesting recalibration the cameras so he did so and then left with instructions that after 15-20 miles of driving the cameras should finish calibration and to let him know if the problem was still there.

Fast forward a bit and the cameras finished calibration, but the issue was still there. I reached out to him and he said he would check with his team. I kept asking every few days, but always with the same answer. ~2 weeks passed with still no answer and I finally asked if I should just go through a service center and he said yes(in fairness to him, he’s a service tech, doesn’t make sense for him to endlessly follow up outside that appointment). Now the fun begins. I find that I can’t make a service appointment via the app at all. I try to call into the service center but there is no phone option to make an appointment or talk to a person there. The online chat option referenced doesn’t exist. I try calling into the general line but give up after about half an hour on hold. Finally I figure out that, bizarrely, the website account area only allows scheduling for a service center, so I go ahead and schedule a visit for the following Tuesday, noting that this is a follow up from a mobile service appointment and the deductible has already been paid.

The next day, I get an invoice saying I’ll be charged $159 for the service appointment since there’s a $200 deductible. I call into the service center and am surprised to find that there are new phone options that now show up allowing me to talk to a person(!) about the appointment. I do so and the person assures me that the invoice has to show that but they won’t charge for the actual appointment since the deductible was met for this issue. I also ask if it would be helpful to capture a bug report when the issue happens again and they say yes and to report that to the general service line(gulp!), since only they can look at them.

That was a Friday, so over the weekend I capture a couple bug reports and on Monday make the dreaded call into the general service line. Surprisingly, it only takes 15 minutes to get to a person. They take the info of when the bug reports were made and refer that to the level 2 techs. They come back after a few minutes and say that only the service center can fix that issue but they’ve saved the bug report data on their end.

On Tuesday, I dropped the car off at the service center. I was about 45 minutes early because of a prior appointment elsewhere but they took me in immediately anyway. The service advisor told me the car should be ready Thursday afternoon and gave me an Uber voucher for $200 for that day and $100 for each day after until pickup. Fortunately, this worked for me since I happened to not need to take my daughter anywhere Wednesday-Friday anyway(not sure what they would have done if it absolutely wouldn’t work). They did say they would get me a rental car if it went longer than Thursday. They again assured me that I wouldn’t need to pay anything since this was a follow up for an existing issue.

Thursday came, and I got a text at ~8:30AM saying my car was ready. Unfortunately, I also found out the Uber voucher had expired at midnight for some reason. I texted them about that and they reinstated the voucher. They also sent a bill saying I had to pay $159. I texted about that and the advisor apologized and immediately sent a new one showing $0. I went and picked up my car without issue and found the problem was fully solved(I guess the front camera pitch angle was wrong).

Big wall of text here but I wanted to report fairly, with all the good and bad. My takeaways:

1. I wish the mobile tech referred me to a service center immediately when the problem wasn’t solved, preferably without me needing to reach out to the center myself.
2. There needs to be a better way to schedule directly to a service center. Having the app seemingly randomly choose between mobile/service center and having the only other way to do so being on the website for some reason is janky and bad.
3. General service phone line wait times seem to be improving very recently.
4. Once you get an appointment, communication becomes WAY easier.
5. It’s annoying that every part of the phone tree tries to convince you to go to an ephemeral online chat option.

 

[Chaserr]

As a Canadian I have zero knowledge about the USMC, but I thought is was the "corps"?

It is. "Stolen Valor" is when someone randomly pretends to deserve military honors they haven't earned because they think it will make them a better person. In this instance it's an appeal to his own "authority" and was a veiled - now overt, because it always goes that way when someone's ego pushes them to demand for the honor or respect he's trying to pretend he's earned. Unfortunately, because respect is earned and can't be stolen or worn like a costume, he has to keep begging for it - the veiled off topic reference was his way of shoe horning off topic nonsense to suit his escalating need to be respected. It's the only reason that random topic was even mentioned. If you look at its inclusion as a stilted plea for attention it's no different from his earlier begging for replies when people start ignoring him. Which is what everyone should do. Is there an ignore user option we can click?

I found the answer to my own question - click his name. In the pop up there is an "Ignore User" button on the right.

 

[jerkstore]

Still looking for an answer to this. I get the impression that no one wants to divulge the numbers because it will show that a very small percentage of tesla owners are on this forum which would also slow how small the number is that come here to discuss the issues they are having.

You seem to be insinuating that if a Tesla owner had a problem with their car then they would obviously be a member of this forum. So because the membership of this forum is small relative to the overall number of Teslas, then that must somehow prove that only a tiny fraction of Tesla owners have had problems. That's not how it works. The two aren't necessarily related in any way.

It seems pretty obvious that there are quite a few people here at TMC that feel like the service is severely lacking lately. Yes, maybe the % of people here complaining is higher than the % of Tesla owners in general, but that doesn't mean that the issue isn't necessarily widespread.

Not everyone who own a Tesla knows about TMC. Not everyone who has a problem joins a forum to post about it. Not everyone who has a problem complains about it at all. Doesn't mean the problem isn't still there. There could be plenty of Tesla owners who had problems but didn't sign up for a forum (and specifically this one) to voice their concerns. Maybe they just take their complaints to the Service Center employees all the time when they can get ahold of them, and email corporate and never hear back. Maybe they think the service sucks, but not as bad as the service they got 10 years ago at [insert legacy automaker here]. You can't really treat what you read on TMC as the only possible outlet for frustrated Tesla owners and assume that because only some people in one place are voicing a concern about something that the concern isn't more widespread elsewhere.

Tesla will rectify the problems at some point. It may not be in the timeframes that some of you want or the way you want but do you really think they want to lose market share after all they have gained.

They may already be losing market share. Look at what's happened to S and X sales. A lot of that is probably cannibalization by the Model 3. But it also stands to reason that some of Tesla's oldest customers are getting fed up with the direction the service has gone and aren't buying new versions of their cars because they've soured on the company. We've seen that opinion voiced here in several places.

It's the "at some point" that's the problem here. The whole point of this discussion is that a lot of Tesla owners don't feel like Tesla has the luxury of addressing this "at some point." It has the feeling of becoming an existential crisis for the company if it keeps being under-prioritized as a thing they'll get around to at some point when it's convenient for them.

Most automakers are public companies. Most automakers have shareholders and quarterly numbers to meet. And it doesn't really matter that they've been in business longer than Tesla has - the legacy automakers have also had the constraints of shareholders and quarterly expectations for much longer than Tesla has, and yet they've managed to find a balance between making Wall St. happy and keeping their customers happy with acceptable service.

Tesla can't say "we're new at this, sorry that service sucks but right now we're just trying to make as many cars as we can" for much longer. That excuse doesn't fly for a mass-market company. And a car company selling 500k cars in a year is a mass market company. And by building cars as fast as they can without addressing the service issue, they're just exacerbating the service issue. If service is straining now, and they don't have time/bandwidth/money/whatever to fix it, what happens when you've got several hundred thousand more cars on the roads in the next couple of years and they start needing service too? Service has to scale proportionally with production. It hasn't been, and currently it doesn't seem like it's going to any time soon. And that is a continuing problem that will only negatively affect Tesla even more as time goes on.

Tesla needs to accept the responsibility that comes with their success rather than acting like they'll get around to it when they feel like it. That's not a recipe for a healthy company with a long and growing future ahead of them.

 

[EVDRVN]

My thoughts are the some people will have amazing experiences with Tesla and others will have horrible experiences. I do think that TMC has a "selection bias" in that people are more likely to post questions about issues they're encountering than to write a post about how they've experienced no issues in the last X days.

I know two people with Teslas and they love the car, but concede that the service they have receive is abysmal (at least since the release of the Model 3).

My limited experience (since I don't have my Model S yet) has been with the Tesla store -- they shipped me an incorrect Wall Connector and took 30 days (eek!) to simply respond to my email (since there's no way to phone them). I had to send a follow-up question to their response and I'll be shocked if they respond in less than 30 days. It doesn't sound like my experience with the store is unique.

I really hope Tesla gets their act together on the client experience because their greatest marketing tool, for better or for worse, is their existing clients. Whether your experience has been amazing or subpar, I think Tesla has a lot of improving to do before they offer client service similar to other luxury car manufacturers (which is also imperfect, but significantly better than Tesla).

They never responded to me so I disputed the charge and kept the items. They did not even bother to respond ever or to the CC company- EVER. Consider how much loss they must have from these issues where they can't ever respond to an email- EVER. Charge backs must be incredible as I know several people that had to resort to this because of non-existent customer service. How could any company be so broken this long?

 

[EVDRVN]

You seem to be insinuating that if a Tesla owner had a problem with their car then they would obviously be a member of this forum. So because the membership of this forum is small relative to the overall number of Teslas, then that must somehow prove that only a tiny fraction of Tesla owners have had problems. That's not how it works. The two aren't necessarily related in any way.

It seems pretty obvious that there are quite a few people here at TMC that feel like the service is severely lacking lately. Yes, maybe the % of people here complaining is higher than the % of Tesla owners in general, but that doesn't mean that the issue isn't necessarily widespread.

Not everyone who own a Tesla knows about TMC. Not everyone who has a problem joins a forum to post about it. Not everyone who has a problem complains about it at all. Doesn't mean the problem isn't still there. There could be plenty of Tesla owners who had problems but didn't sign up for a forum (and specifically this one) to voice their concerns. Maybe they just take their complaints to the Service Center employees all the time when they can get ahold of them, and email corporate and never hear back. Maybe they think the service sucks, but not as bad as the service they got 10 years ago at [insert legacy automaker here]. You can't really treat what you read on TMC as the only possible outlet for frustrated Tesla owners and assume that because only some people in one place are voicing a concern about something that the concern isn't more widespread elsewhere.



They may already be losing market share. Look at what's happened to S and X sales. A lot of that is probably cannibalization by the Model 3. But it also stands to reason that some of Tesla's oldest customers are getting fed up with the direction the service has gone and aren't buying new versions of their cars because they've soured on the company. We've seen that opinion voiced here in several places.

It's the "at some point" that's the problem here. The whole point of this discussion is that a lot of Tesla owners don't feel like Tesla has the luxury of addressing this "at some point." It has the feeling of becoming an existential crisis for the company if it keeps being under-prioritized as a thing they'll get around to at some point when it's convenient for them.

Most automakers are public companies. Most automakers have shareholders and quarterly numbers to meet. And it doesn't really matter that they've been in business longer than Tesla has - the legacy automakers have also had the constraints of shareholders and quarterly expectations for much longer than Tesla has, and yet they've managed to find a balance between making Wall St. happy and keeping their customers happy with acceptable service.

Tesla can't say "we're new at this, sorry that service sucks but right now we're just trying to make as many cars as we can" for much longer. That excuse doesn't fly for a mass-market company. And a car company selling 500k cars in a year is a mass market company. And by building cars as fast as they can without addressing the service issue, they're just exacerbating the service issue. If service is straining now, and they don't have time/bandwidth/money/whatever to fix it, what happens when you've got several hundred thousand more cars on the roads in the next couple of years and they start needing service too? Service has to scale proportionally with production. It hasn't been, and currently it doesn't seem like it's going to any time soon. And that is a continuing problem that will only negatively affect Tesla even more as time goes on.

Tesla needs to accept the responsibility that comes with their success rather than acting like they'll get around to it when they feel like it. That's not a recipe for a healthy company with a long and growing future ahead of them.

Elon's a genius, he will fix it all. Ever wonder why they are always in crisis mode?

 

[AMPd]

Still looking for an answer to this. I get the impression that no one wants to divulge the numbers because it will show that a very small percentage of tesla owners are on this forum which would also slow how small the number is that come here to discuss the issues they are having.

Tesla will rectify the problems at some point. It may not be in the timeframes that some of you want or the way you want but do you really think they want to lose market share after all they have gained.

But also not everyone who has issues goes on a forum to discuss it.

They might not want to lose the market share, but at the same time they are trying to deliver record number of vehicles with as few employees as possible.
More sales should mean more employees, Tesla seems to be trying to do the opposite.

 

[avesraggiana]

Holy carp, this thread got railroaded.

5. It’s annoying that every part of the phone tree tries to convince you to go to an ephemeral online chat option.

Symptomatic of a company trying to do too much with too few people.

This cycle of firing thousands of employees so as to be able to post a profit at the end of the quarter, and then hiring them back at the beginning of the next one, is unsustainable. It has got to stop.

 

[bmah]

Moderator note: Moved 30+ posts to snippiness. They were a mixture of arguing, attacks, off-topic-ness, and other fairly innocuous posts that were collateral damage. I admit to being a bit heavy-handed as I’m trying to clean up this thread.

Posts about Tesla financials should probably go to the Investor forum, or the Tesla, Inc. forum. This definitely isn’t a Model S topic. I haven’t figured out yet whether the whole thread should be moved.

Personal attacks on other forum members are against TMC rules and if continued, will lead to being banned. It’s OK to disagree with each other but this needs to be done in a respectful way.

Thank you,

Bruce.