Tesla (the company) killing itself slowly?

[PWlakewood]

@jerkstore

I understand that not all Tesla owners belong to this forum or other ones and I have never stated that I believe they all do. In fact I also know that not all tesla owners even care about other people's experiences and if they have an issue they will get it fixed on their own and dont go online looking for sympathy or support from others with similar issues. They simply get it serviced. I use forums to gain information about cars, cell phones, drones, electronics etc. If I have an issue I will look for a solution on my own and if I can't fix it myself I will take it in to be serviced. I know there are plenty of people out there that have issues that stay silent and say nothing and then there are the people who are completely happy and also say nothing. My whole point is any forum only represents a small number of the people who are happy or unhappy and it's not easy to put a number on it but more times than not the ones that complain about there issues with there tesla expect everyone to feel the same way they do about the service and company and if you disagreed with them some will turn attack mode on.

 

[VifferFun]

They never responded to me so I disputed the charge and kept the items. They did not even bother to respond ever or to the CC company- EVER. Consider how much loss they must have from these issues where they can't ever respond to an email- EVER. Charge backs must be incredible as I know several people that had to resort to this because of non-existent customer service. How could any company be so broken this long?

Wow, they didn’t even contact you after the credit card chargeback? I was very close to filing a chargeback, but finally after Day #30 of waiting I received a response from the online store asking if the Tesla Service Centre had the item I needed. In my response I explained how I was financially disadvantaged due to the added installation costs of the incorrect hardwired Wall Connector and proposed that if Tesla sent me a set of all-weather floor mats (retails at $328 CAD + Tax) then it could change my experience for the better. I was shocked that they promptly responded, agreed to my proposal, and are shipping me the mats for free. My previously sour experience with the Tesla online store has turned more sweet and I appreciate that they are making the goodwill gesture. Hopefully they get through these growing pains soon!

 

[EVDRVN]

Wow, they didn’t even contact you after the credit card chargeback? I was very close to filing a chargeback, but finally after Day #30 of waiting I received a response from the online store asking if the Tesla Service Centre had the item I needed. In my response I explained how I was financially disadvantaged due to the added installation costs of the incorrect hardwired Wall Connector and proposed that if Tesla sent me a set of all-weather floor mats (retails at $328 CAD + Tax) then it could change my experience for the better. I was shocked that they promptly responded, agreed to my proposal, and are shipping me the mats for free. My previously sour experience with the Tesla online store has turned more sweet and I appreciate that they are making the goodwill gesture. Hopefully they get through these growing pains soon!

They did not. I have seen this with some friends as well. no response ever.

 

[VifferFun]

They did not. I have seen this with some friends as well. no response ever.

Wow -- you'd think they'd want to settle to get their product back I'm happy that the Tesla Online Store is willing to work with me on a resolution without a chargeback though

 

[EVDRVN]

Wow -- you'd think they'd want to settle to get their product back I'm happy that the Tesla Online Store is willing to work with me on a resolution without a chargeback though

You would think Tesla would do many things but they don't. They lack basic common sense in many areas.

 

[Mike Robinson]

Food for thought . . . .

Long, but well worth watching! People who think all Tesla engineers are sitting around developing games, are very mistaken! Tesla is definitely not acting like a company drawing its lasts gasps.

 

[EVDRVN]

Food for thought . . . .

Long, but well worth watching! People who think all Tesla engineers are sitting around developing games, are very mistaken! Tesla is definitely not acting like a company drawing its lasts gasps.

They are doing great on one end and acting like kids and pissing off customers on the other. Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot. If they hired experienced managers in sales and CS they would be doing far better. Part of the company functions and acts like a frat house pulling down the other side.

 

[Annacarolselin]

Had an MS for 2.5 years - solid good experiences with customer service for the most part.

Out of country and my wife finds that the MCU is totally gone. Calls roadside, they say that as the vehicle is able to be moved book it into a service center. Important to know that at this point the car has no sensors, no navigation, no backup camera, no user profiles and no A/C or even fan!

Service is booked online (chat is never present on the website) and it schedules Ranger - had to select Other as there is no "most of my car does not work" option. Still 8 days out.

I try to reach a human at Tesla to say this unacceptable - all routes lead to an IVR which directs to website and claims of the elusive "chat with expert".

Call roadside again, no dice.

Thursday get text to say Ranger canceled as they cannot deal with the issue, booked into service center (presumably at the cost of 5 days delay). Now scheduled for Tuesday at 11am (today).

I return the following Sunday - car has not been used due to close to 100 degrees - with no air circulation let alone all the other concerns about driving a crippled car. Car is in deep sleep, will not wake up - after two hours of messing around call roadside who agree to tow. I open the driver's door ... and it wakes up. Call roadside - yes they will tow, but at my cost. Okay leave it - I'll hope it drives okay on Tuesday.

Tuesday. Car takes ages to wake up. Back out of garage, need to get out to close door as no control from car obviously. Car goes to sleep again in the minute or so I am out.

Dive straight to Tesla. Suggestions I am not going to get a loaner as others are ahead in the queue today. First sign of old Tesla when I relate the whole story and they at least find me an old MS to drive.

Waiting for update.

Very unhappy. There should be a way that an essentially undrivable car gets priority - I am sure a human would prioritize, but you can no longer reach them. So much for ensuring that service levels remain the same as the company scales up.

Wife says cancel Model Y deposit, and find something from elsewhere next year.

Rant over.

I had a problem with my Tesla 3 I received in March 2019. The car was not checked out properly and I had not data.
We were on our way to Las Vegas. We had a new modem installed in Las Vegas. Second problem smoke came out of the front vents. I was told not to drive the car. I was in British Columbia Canada and had to deal with Utah. I was told if there is no problem I would have to pay for towing after I was told by Tesla in Calgary not to drive the car. When my car was made a part was missing. I was all so told I would be cover for some of my own expensive by Tesla in Calgary. Which now they are back tracking and not paying for any of my extra money I had to lay out due to they fault.
I was told by Calgary I was luck I was not charged to have my car towed by to British Columbia. If I would have know how bad the service I am getting I would have waited a see what what other cars were coming on the market. I would have never purchased my Tesla 3. The service from the dealership in Calgary is terrible.

 

[Annacarolselin]

They are doing great on one end and acting like kids and pissing off customers on the other. Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot. If they hired experienced managers in sales and CS they would be doing far better. Part of the company functions and acts like a frat house pulling down the other side.

I agree they have pissed me of due to the poor service I received from the dealership in Calgary Alberta Canada. It is time for a change from the top in that dealership. What happened to the Customer comes first.

 

[Struja]

They are doing great on one end and acting like kids and pissing off customers on the other. Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot. If they hired experienced managers in sales and CS they would be doing far better. Part of the company functions and acts like a frat house pulling down the other side.

To me, it's reminiscent of when I worked at a fitness club as a kid. The business model seemed to be..."bring in as many new customers as you can, with as little care and attention to the current members as possible".

I believe the theory was, you'd always retain a certain % of business no matter what, but new business was new money, so they pursued new business aggressively.

Unfortunately for Tesla, if this is their model, how many fitness clubs have come and gone because of this business model? Like I said before, I am a 100% fanboy of the car and I REALLY want the company to succeed but they are in some dire need of learning how to service all of their customers.

 

[EVDRVN]

I have no expectation from Tesla for great or even good service but so far I have been lucky with the service department delivering great service. On the customer service front I have been treated very well by front line people but the managers have lied to me on multiple occasions and refuse to own their mistakes. and commitments I think Neorden (before being permanently banned and all having his and other objecting members posts being deleted) is on to something with this quote below. It has become my suspicion as well and it seems Tesla management would rather risk going to court than honoring their obligations.

"There appears to be someone at executive level in Tesla who is deliberately obstructing communications with customers. I have a contact at Fremont who agrees that the current situation is unacceptable, but she's been unable to get even the most basic problem fixed for a week. I have contacted the Board to see if that will help."

This is exactly the same feedback I have received from fearful Tesla CS reps who get "shut down" by managers with cases being repeatedly closed with no explanation and no notes. I have never had this experience with any "reputable" company ever, as an investor (for now) I am shocked and disgusted. by their tactics.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

"Tesla management would rather risk going to court than honoring their obligations"
"There appears to be someone at executive level in Tesla who is deliberately obstructing communications with customers"
"What happened to the Customer comes first"
"They lack basic common sense in many areas"

The fish rots from the head down. None of this is happening without Elon Musk's direction, permission, or knowledge.

 

[EVDRVN]

"Tesla management would rather risk going to court than honoring their obligations"
"There appears to be someone at executive level in Tesla who is deliberately obstructing communications with customers"
"What happened to the Customer comes first"
"They lack basic common sense in many areas"

The fish rots from the head down. None of this is happening without Elon Musk's direction, permission, or knowledge.

Absolutely. I think he lacks the emotional maturity to understand how to run a company with customers. He has many great skills that have been key to Tesla success but he is an absolute failure at overseeing marketing, sales, and CS. I was an exec at a fortune 50 company that was know for CS and integrity. I don't see Tesla surviving tough times if they don't make radical changes in CS. I also suspect managers are hiding issues that impact their cost centers and any potential performance ratings for bonuses. Seem incentives could be driving some of this terrible behavior. I also feel bad for front line CS employees that do their jobs and get sand bagged by managers. Really pathetic way to treat your employees. As you say, it runs downstream always.

 

[aesculus]

TL/DR; had a great service experience today

Thought I would throw at least one good point out here today. I have been having a long running issue (since before the first of the year) with clunking sounds from the front end of my Model X. Back in March they replaced one of the air struts but had to order the other. It was during an annual service so they provided a loaner car for the two days. With conflicting schedules and a forgotten follow-up by Tesla, I was not able to get it serviced again until May. At that time they had the other part but discovered that the links to the sway bar were bad and that was causing a knocking noise. They replaced both just to be sure. I waited for the service and declined a loaner because it was more hassle than it was worth for the 3.5 hours it took.

Fast forward a few months and the clunking was back, but a bit different. Only way to get a service appointment was the mobile app and of course they wanted to send a mobile tech. I went out of my way when creating the appointment to state it was suspension oriented, a follow-up from previous work and a mobile tech would not be able to resolve the issue. A few days before the appointment a mobile tech supervisor called and verified that a mobile tech could not perform the work and it would have to be brought into a SC. They also reviewed my entire related service history while I was on the phone and stated they would note that the repair should be fast tracked with the previous diagnosis and also ensured that the potential replacement part would be available on the appointment day. They booked me an appointment a few days out. Within hours I realized that the appointment I had agreed to would not work and I went into the mobile app and it showed me a number of possible appointments just a few days forward. I purposefully picked a day with one of the first appointments of the day noting that things seem to deteriorate as the day advances.

Today I arrived at my scheduled time (8am). The service advisor quickly established why I was there and noted the prior attempts and verified that the part was at hand. Prior to fully checking me in he arranged for a service tech to do a ride along with me. They have a special road near the SC that exposes suspension issues and I was well acquainted with it. The service tech hopped into the passenger seat and we quickly circled the building so we could get out to the "test track". We did not even make it to the street when I pointed out the clunk and he admitted it was loud. So we returned to the counter and advisor checked me in. They then ran the car back to the service area.

The service manager directed me to the loaner desk even though the repair was estimated to be less than 4 hours. I declined stating I would just wait for it. Within an hour the part was replaced, they drove the car to verify the clunk was gone and sent me on my way. No charge as a warranty repair.

So it's still possible to obtain that old school Tesla service depending on the circumstances, location and how well you have lined your ducks up. I did everything I could to take responsibility for my repair and to ensure everyone was on the same page. I think that helped overall. The Tesla employees were committed to making sure I was satisfied within the scope that they had authority for. In the end it worked out well I think for all of us and I saw the service tech I was leaving and he had a warm goodbye for me.

 

[whitex]

Absolutely. I think he lacks the emotional maturity to understand how to run a company with customers. He has many great skills that have been key to Tesla success but he is an absolute failure at overseeing marketing, sales, and CS. I was an exec at a fortune 50 company that was know for CS and integrity. I don't see Tesla surviving tough times if they don't make radical changes in CS. I also suspect managers are hiding issues that impact their cost centers and any potential performance ratings for bonuses. Seem incentives could be driving some of this terrible behavior. I also feel bad for front line CS employees that do their jobs and get sand bagged by managers. Really pathetic way to treat your employees. As you say, it runs downstream always.

It's not emotional maturity, it's experience making consumer hardware. Elon uses agile software development to make cars. "Ship now, fix it later". That works for software products and cloud products, where incremental per customer cost of fix is negligible. It worked at first for Tesla too, with relatively low volumes of cars produced - each service center was like an extension of the prototype garage. The biggest wrong assumption Elon made was that everything can be fixed with software. Turns out it cannot, and therein lies the problem. Now Tesla is on the hook to service hardware, which has a huge cost Tesla simply cannot afford. Fixing software is not free, but fixing hardware per car is orders of magnitude more expensive. On top of it, maintaining all these service centers also has a high overhead cost. Suddenly you have 100,000 cars which need some hardware retrofit, you need a lot of service centers, when all done, you can't just lay everybody off until the next required hardware correction.

It will be interesting how Tesla is going to dig itself from that hole. One approach they are trying is like the yellow screen, simply refuse to fix things, blame it on the customer, but that is not going to work long term. The more cars with problems they produce, the more liability they generate, which makes the hole deeper.

 

[Mike Robinson]

Additional food for thought . . . .

 

[Skipdd]

Additional food for thought . . . .

So, if as conjectured by Jack Rickard and discussed in the video, Tesla can raise as much capital as it needs whenever it wants, why do they not set aside enough dollars to grow out their servicing side. Why would they allow a growing cavalcade of negative comments from their customer base which the conspiracy folks will surely seek to amplify?

Notwithstanding the above, it is an interesting article. Explains some of the fervor of others in the core investment thread. There is probably some truth to it, but am not convinced that everything stated is the case. But then I am naturally disinclined to subscribe to big conspiracy theories.. Still it will cause me to think about more possibilities. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Sethach]

Here in Germany the Tesla Forum is full with member who are very unhappy with the service.
To get an appointment takes months, spare parts are not available.
Standard things like windshield can not be delivered for weeks.
And now this:
Quality issues lead NextMove to bail on its massive Tesla Model 3 order - Roadshow
From this car rental company I have rented a Tesla before I bought mine.
They made a lot of advertisement for Tesla.

Really I like the car, but since 2019 I can recommend it anymore.

In addition to the service gap we have limited Batteries, limited supercharging, yellow screens...
What Tesla is doing in Germany/Europe is really bad for the company.

 

[emmz0r]

Additional food for thought . . . .

Those guys are spin doctors. I bet if it was demonstrable fact that for example the seats on the model 3 caused cancer they would say "this is actually a smart move by tesla. They reduce carbon footprint by killing people and add new cars on the used market, brilliant!"

 

[Mike Robinson]

Those guys are spin doctors. I bet if it was demonstrable fact that for example the seats on the model 3 caused cancer they would say "this is actually a smart move by tesla. They reduce carbon footprint by killing people and add new cars on the used market, brilliant!"

I guess there are probably people who look at things that way. So, just out of curiosity, did Texaco actually buy the NmH battery technology and sit on it til patents ran out?