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I keep seeing people talking about Tesla Insurance (not picking on you DurandalAl - just a starting point), as if it's a serious business for Tesla -- either now or in the reasonably near future.

Can anybody point me to anything that suggests that Tesla Insurance is viewed as a serious business for Tesla, either now or in the future?


My understanding is that today it isn only available in California. My belief is that this will never be a serious business for Tesla - that biggest outcome intended would be Tesla acting in the role of a referral and bundler of a large number of new customers to an existing auto insurance company (i.e. - negotiating a special rate for "Tesla" insurance through State Farm, and then referring Tesla buyers to the "Tesla Insurance operated by State Farm" insurance policy).

I DO see this idea as something of a threat or nudge / motivation to the current auto insurance industry - start taking the improved safety and lower overall claims levels from Tesla vehicles into your premiums, or we'll just start up a competitor (or work with one of your competitors that IS doing this) and take your Tesla auto insurance premiums away from you.


In the meantime, the barriers to entry for Tesla as an insurance provider are very high. State by state licensing. Reserves so that Tesla can pay claims when needed. Building up a new division with the insurance business processes and expertise. It's this last point I see as a particularly large barrier - the Tesla insurance legal entity is going to need a fair bit of cash to get started, and will need to retain some reasonably large amount of reserve to be certain of being able to pay claims. Stuff that insurance companies do routinely and do well.

I imagine there are others here with a lot more insurance industry experience than me (who has ~none) and can articulate these barriers to entry better.


In the end, I see Tesla insurance as a money loser or break even for Tesla outside of a situation in which none of the current auto insurance providers see lower claims insuring Teslas and thus Tesla decides to go into competition by charging lower insurance premiums to insure Teslas.


Also worth adding, again MHO, is that it isn't completely clear to me that Teslas actually ARE cheaper to insure. Factors in favor of cheaper are fewer accidents, and reduced medical bills for the people in the Tesla when it does get in an accident.

Factors in favor of more expensive are that Teslas are totaled more frequently (I believe - don't have data to back this) and that seemingly minor damage leads to much larger repair bills (again - my belief, not data). Also that Teslas are more expensive on average than other cars on the road.

I think that the balance of those factors, mostly because of the medical bill side, DOES make Teslas cheaper to insure. Is it enough cheaper though for a standalone insurance business to flourish and generate significant profits though? I am firmly of the opinion that this is no, at least today and the foreseeable future. Get 10M Teslas on the road in the US - maybe then.


(and in the meantime, Tesla referring customers to a particular provider with typically good deals on auto insurance for Teslas - totally)

I would imagine also that any car that has the kind of insame performance numbers of a Tesla will cause insurance rates to rise above those for other similar, but sub-performing cars.
 
I keep seeing people talking about Tesla Insurance (not picking on you DurandalAl - just a starting point), as if it's a serious business for Tesla -- either now or in the reasonably near future.

Can anybody point me to anything that suggests that Tesla Insurance is viewed as a serious business for Tesla, either now or in the future?

I believe the end game here is to offer FSD+insurance as a monthly subscription. Nobody would pay $200/month for FSD software package from get go especially if the software is not proven yet. But they will pay that much if it is bundled with insurance. I would even go as far as to say that the subscription to this package might also give the customer a discount on the car.
 
So Tesla has spent years on advanced battery design, space age manufacturing advances, and driving automation.

What has Audis EV division been up to?

Audi teases electric e-tron GT production version, releases 'progressive' sound of the supercar - Electrek
n-release-progressive-sound-supercar/

Development of the e-sound for the Audi e-tron GT with musical creativity and
technical competence; designed on the computer, in the sound laboratory, and in
the car

32 individual sound elements; weighted and modulated based on drive management
data

Optional sound package: two control units in the luggage compartment, two
external loudspeakers on the car and two internal loudspeakers in the rear
doors

Sound characteristics can be adjusted across multiple stages using Audi drive
select
 
I think Waymo knows, just as we do, that once Tesla reaches a certain point, the value of Waymo pretty much goes to zero unless they have some contracts in place to use their approach by some cities

So true. Scaling up that little area is gonna be a decade long project even if they get it to work.

If Tesla is a year or two behind Waymo figuring out a 5x10 miles area in Arizona (for real, not like now with remote drivers) doesn't really matter. If Waymo is a year or two after Tesla they need not bother.
 
Waymo seems to expanding the fully driverless taxi service in the coming weeks and months. Interesting to see how Tesla's rewrite performs in comparison - taking of course into account that Waymo is targeting a limited geographical area whereas Tesla is going for a more universal system.

Waymo's near term progress would probably affect the share price if they are out with an impressive system before the rewrite launches (and hopefully really performs). A rewrite not living up to the hype would be a double short term whammy in this context.

Waypoint - The official Waymo blog: Waymo is opening its fully driverless service to the general public in Phoenix


I don't think a successful rewrite has been priced in to TSLA at all.
 
So Tesla has spent years on advanced battery design, space age manufacturing advances, and driving automation.

What has Audis EV division been up to?

Audi teases electric e-tron GT production version, releases 'progressive' sound of the supercar - Electrek
n-release-progressive-sound-supercar/

Development of the e-sound for the Audi e-tron GT with musical creativity and
technical competence; designed on the computer, in the sound laboratory, and in
the car

32 individual sound elements; weighted and modulated based on drive management
data

Optional sound package: two control units in the luggage compartment, two
external loudspeakers on the car and two internal loudspeakers in the rear
doors

Sound characteristics can be adjusted across multiple stages using Audi drive
select
Is the slogan, "Fart-Vergnügen" already taken? (Asking for a friend ... )
 
I believe the end game here is to offer FSD+insurance as a monthly subscription. Nobody would pay $200/month for FSD software package from get go especially if the software is not proven yet. But they will pay that much if it is bundled with insurance. I would even go as far as to say that the subscription to this package might also give the customer a discount on the car.

This is helpful, and a better way for me to see Tesla getting into the insurance business.

This doesn't address the need to build an insurance company from the ground up (or probably better, acquire some smallish auto insurance company that already has the state by state licenses, and insurance related business processes already established).


Something of a tangent, but still applicable in my mind.

I also see many business segments that Tesla can get into. And I'm also excited about them. But between Tesla Insurance and Tesla Semi, I also see two business that are much more than throwing your hat in the ring - it's not only building something (Semi) or deciding to offer a service (Insurance), there are other business and/or regulatory factors for getting into those businesses.

The obvious consequence - the company we know today isn't equipped to do those businesses. To gain that ability, Tesla needs to acquire or partner with existing companies or build a whole new division (company) to do the rest of the business.

On the Semi side, it's the difference between building a truck, and doing the service / repair and other stuff required for an income producing asset (vs typical light duty vehicle usage). The current Tesla Service infrastructure and processes aren't equipped to handle Semi. One vector being fleet buyers - I believe they operate their own internal repair and maintenance shops -- does that means Tesla is going to (finally) start offering training to others to do the repair and maintenance themselves, or is Tesla going to hire mechanics and place them at each fleet buyer's repair facilities?

Also Semi side - the parts delivery has to be much more robust than we tolerate with our personal vehicles (loaner cars do wonders here). Is Tesla going to have a small army of Semis positioned around the country, ready to loan out while current customer Semis are in for repair and waiting for parts? 1 week delivery for parts - I don't think that's going to begin to cut it with people that are purchasing an income producing asset. A 1 week delay means you've just lost ~2% of that year's revenue to your asset being sidelined.

These are processes others have nailed. The key (and I realize this could prove to be the stumbling block that leaves Tesla with no alternative) is that they need an acquisition or partner that is as committed to the transition to a renewable economy as Tesla is. If they can't find that partner, or a business to acquire, then they'll have no choice to build their own division (business) from the ground up.
 
I don't think a successful rewrite has been priced in to TSLA at all.

It's definitely going to be one of those moments where seeing it in action could cause some to re-evaluate Tesla's value. Totally depends on how impressive it is.

If it comes with new features like turns on city driving, a more advance summon(farther distance and faster) then it could very much add some value to Tesla's market cap

Tesla still gets practically no value for it's FSD progress. If it actually got valued on it's potential market and where it's at verses it's competitors, it would add 100-200 billion easily to the market cap.....and I'm being conservative
 
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I keep seeing people talking about Tesla Insurance (not picking on you DurandalAl - just a starting point), as if it's a serious business for Tesla -- either now or in the reasonably near future.

Can anybody point me to anything that suggests that Tesla Insurance is viewed as a serious business for Tesla, either now or in the future?

Correct, Tesla's insurance program is only available in California. And they have acquired an insurance company already to deal with all the regulatory issues. My belief is that this will never be a serious business for Tesla - that biggest outcome intended would be Tesla acting in the role of a referral and bundler of a large number of new customers to an existing auto insurance company (i.e. - negotiating a special rate for "Tesla" insurance through State Farm, and then referring Tesla buyers to the "Tesla Insurance operated by State Farm" insurance policy).

I DO see this idea as something of a threat or nudge / motivation to the current auto insurance industry - start taking the improved safety and lower overall claims levels from Tesla vehicles into your premiums, or we'll just start up a competitor (or work with one of your competitors that IS doing this) and take your Tesla auto insurance premiums away from you.


In the meantime, the barriers to entry for Tesla as an insurance provider are very high. State by state licensing. Reserves so that Tesla can pay claims when needed. Building up a new division with the insurance business processes and expertise. It's this last point I see as a particularly large barrier - the Tesla insurance legal entity is going to need a fair bit of cash to get started, and will need to retain some reasonably large amount of reserve to be certain of being able to pay claims. Stuff that insurance companies do routinely and do well.

I imagine there are others here with a lot more insurance industry experience than me (who has ~none) and can articulate these barriers to entry better.


In the end, I see Tesla insurance as a money loser or break even for Tesla outside of a situation in which none of the current auto insurance providers see lower claims insuring Teslas and thus Tesla decides to go into competition by charging lower insurance premiums to insure Teslas.


Also worth adding, again MHO, is that it isn't completely clear to me that Teslas actually ARE cheaper to insure. Factors in favor of cheaper are fewer accidents, and reduced medical bills for the people in the Tesla when it does get in an accident.

Factors in favor of more expensive are that Teslas are totaled more frequently (I believe - don't have data to back this) and that seemingly minor damage leads to much larger repair bills (again - my belief, not data). Also that Teslas are more expensive on average than other cars on the road.

I think that the balance of those factors, mostly because of the medical bill side, DOES make Teslas cheaper to insure. Is it enough cheaper though for a standalone insurance business to flourish and generate significant profits though? I am firmly of the opinion that this is no, at least today and the foreseeable future. Get 10M Teslas on the road in the US - maybe then.


(and in the meantime, Tesla referring customers to a particular provider with typically good deals on auto insurance for Teslas - totally)

I recall Elon being asked about the program at a shareholder's meeting. Said they were at version 1.0 in California, and working on ver 2.0, but rather than expanding 1.0 to the rest of the US, they preferred waiting for ver 2.0 as it incorporates substantial advances. The huge advantage Tesla has over other insurers is that Tesla knows in real time how conservatively or sportively aka recklessly the driver is driving. So it can even vary its rate over time. Elon also used the opportunity to advertise for insurance gurus for his program. Apparently industry rates are so high they are easy to match or beat, and I had the distinct impression Tesla saw this as an excellent source of revenues.
 
I don't think a successful rewrite has been priced in to TSLA at all.

Sure, I agree if it is really, really good. But good autopilot and something that can act as an independent robo-taxi are different things. It will take something "magical" now or later before people start truly believing the taxi idea.

It wasn't long ago when Elon described "feature complete" as having a "higher than zero chance of reaching your destination without interventions". And that's not really saying that much when put in the context of robo-taxis. A blind alzheimer patient has an above zero chance of navigating across New York to a specific address. It's not much but it's above zero.
 
Sure, I agree if it is really, really good. But good autopilot and something that can act as an independent robo-taxi are different things. It will take something "magical" now or later before people start truly believing the taxi idea.

In terms of valuing Autopilot/FSD by investors.......I don't think the performance of the rewrite will necessarily cause a big change in valuation unless it's a big leap forward or comes with new abilities.......But I do think the introduction of the monthly subscription service combined with the rewrite would cause a decent, if not big, valuation jump. Wall St loves recurring monthly revenue and despite a 150-200/monthly subscription costing a Tesla costumer more in the long run, I 100% see FSD take rate skyrocketing when the monthly subscription service is live
 
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Sure, I agree if it is really, really good. But good autopilot and something that can act as an independent robo-taxi are different things. It will take something "magical" now or later before people start truly believing the taxi idea.


Yes it may just be okay and not affect TSLA price much. I just don't think it will cause it to go down.
 
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So Tesla has spent years on advanced battery design, space age manufacturing advances, and driving automation.

What has Audis EV division been up to?

Audi teases electric e-tron GT production version, releases 'progressive' sound of the supercar - Electrek
n-release-progressive-sound-supercar/

Development of the e-sound for the Audi e-tron GT with musical creativity and
technical competence; designed on the computer, in the sound laboratory, and in
the car

32 individual sound elements; weighted and modulated based on drive management
data

Optional sound package: two control units in the luggage compartment, two
external loudspeakers on the car and two internal loudspeakers in the rear
doors

Sound characteristics can be adjusted across multiple stages using Audi drive
select

Sound isn't all they've been working on,

Panel gaps!!! They're now down to a maximum possible deviation of just +/-0.20 millimeters. Take that Tesla! Who needs over the air updates, better efficiency, range, & performance with alignment like that eh? :p
 
So Tesla has spent years on advanced battery design, space age manufacturing advances, and driving automation.

What has Audis EV division been up to?

Audi teases electric e-tron GT production version, releases 'progressive' sound of the supercar - Electrek
n-release-progressive-sound-supercar/

Development of the e-sound for the Audi e-tron GT with musical creativity and
technical competence; designed on the computer, in the sound laboratory, and in
the car

32 individual sound elements; weighted and modulated based on drive management
data

Optional sound package: two control units in the luggage compartment, two
external loudspeakers on the car and two internal loudspeakers in the rear
doors

Sound characteristics can be adjusted across multiple stages using Audi drive
select
Sounds like progress to me
 
It so blatant....they post that and this about Tesla:

View attachment 596576

So a butt-dial is a headline now? LOL....the FUD never ends.
Omg it almost happened to me the other day. It was at the final purchase confirmation page.

Now, how would a story like that make headlines. Any publicity is good publicity.
It shows just how simple it is to order.
 
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