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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Very enjoyable video about the Tesla Model 3's rightful place at the top of the list of products that have changed / will continue to change the world.


"I've fallen in love with the Tesla Model 3. I started out as a cynic, it grew on me, and now I'm a full blown believer. I think the Model 3 is as important as the iPhone, 3D printing, and... YouTube! So please indulge me, and listen to my 10 minute long love letter to this car"
 
We know first hand the value of powerwalls when it comes to peak demand and pricing at home. And our power company even subsidized one of the powerwalls ($3,600 cash) because I'm steadying their load against the growth around here (and as part of a legal settlement with Tesla I believe).

So I don't see why not take the same approach at Superchargers. It's exactly what bit us in Yuma... right at peak demand, and that was only a bottleneck situation orchestrated by the utility company. I couldn't even fathom a charging network where it just didn't work at all. There are potential damages to one's health in some situations. To do this wrong is a huge risk to entire corporations IMO. Sometimes I think competitors are screwing up charging just so people hate EVs. If not, they had better start warning people of the dangers when "connectivity" is down and it's 118F. Glad to see some countries working this out at least.
I'll take a stab at why you can't take the same approach. One powerwall doesn't even have the power output to keep up with the L2 HPWC in your garage, which is kind of slow compared to supercharging speeds. Your L2 HPWC can charge at 11.5 kW (240V x 48A = 11,520 watts), but your powerwall can only discharge somewhere between 5.8 kW and 9.6kW (various specs/conditions). So (a single) powerwall can't keep up with (relatively) slow L2 charging....let's jump to supercharging. At 250kW per stall. Each stall now can draw current faster than even a powerpack (which is a $177K, 3,300 lbs., ~3 ft x 4 ft x 7ft battery storage box (dims are without the invertor)) can supply- which is 130kW. So each stall needs 2 powerpacks to meet rate requirements? Now what about 10 stalls....20 stalls? Also, if you don't buffer the high rates, it only takes one "line" a month to create these "demand fees" that us residential customers don't deal with and they are HUGE.

I'm sure this is far too much detail and OT for this thread, so I've created a new thread for any further discussion for anyone interested in exploring the true costs for a SC here:
Estimated supercharger costs and margins. Calculations and analysis. Group effort
 
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While sniffing around, I've found building permits for the Fremont factory here.

Two things I noted straight away:

Tesla - (F21-0004) Foundations for GA4.5 South Expansion - As visible in Fremont flyovers this has been going on for a while.

Multiple entries regarding the Gigapresses referred to as DCM. No recent entries mentioning DCM which to me implies the new construction area near the Gigapresses is NOT another press being installed. Speculative though...
 
speculative you say... I can be speculative...

Do the post/tweet/instagram out of China stating about something huge and exciting coming out in a few hours. Someone said it might be Toyota and Tesla partnering. Several months ago when that was floated I did not think it had any credence
But there has not been any news about Tesla scouting for another Gigafactory site. And if the rate of growth is going to be maintained (or escalated) then more sites should have already been scouted/secured. That is unless the strategy will be to use every acre possible at GigaBerlin and GigaAustin.
So one way to get huge growth could possibly be a partnership with something like Toyota.
I don't even really put much faith in anything huge being announced tomorrow so yeah....Speculation.
In the world of ants I am a finacial advisor. If you are an ant and don't follow my advice you are a grasshopper.

EDIT?ADDITION: and the MM's believe something is afoot too. They drove the price down today so when the big news is released tomorrow they have some buffer built in. Once again, ant advice.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: GOVA
I expect a PR this Friday for an Earnings Call on Wed, July 21st.
I tend to agree with this timing. The move to a Monday for the April 26th call was likely due to the Crew2 mission happening on the previous Wednesday. So a return to Wednesday timing with July 21st would make sense for this earnings call.

Tesla announced the April 26th call after market close on Friday the 9th of April. So an announcement after market close this Friday would appear logical.

Unfortunately unless there's other news it looks like the tractor beam the MM have on the stock price for this week will remain in place. Current options OI indicates a close between $650 and $660 is likely. Next week should be more interesting. For reference TSLA closed at $677 on April 9th, $702 on April 12th and $762 on April 13th. :)
 
One of the things I find interesting about the Supercharger deployment is how consistently linear the numbers are: supercharge.info

Clearly sales is exponential and this is compensated for by higher productivity or efficiency (not sure which word is better). That is, an 8 charger stall might have averaged 2 cars at any given time over a day in 2018 and now averages 4, along with early on needing a fixed quantity for geographic distribution. I'm nevertheless surprised it is exactly linear. With superchargers there doesn't seem to me to be a great deal of opportunity cost to moving faster than they need to because whatever number they hit will be eventually necessary. Further, this is a distinct competitive advantage and if they bothered advertising it would be something I might consider a high priority to mention given 'range anxiety' remains one of the major barriers in surveys. Of course Tesla has the data and I don't and the data is very comprehensive so they probably aren't flying blind. I looked up Electrify America and:

The Electrify America charger network roll-out is being done in four 30-month cycles. The company expects to install or have under development approximately 800 stations with about 3,500 DC fast chargers by December 2021.[6]

Electrify America operates an electric vehicle DC fast charging network in the United States, with more than 500 charging locations and over 2,200 individual charging units as of November 2020.[1]

Compare that to Tesla's current 2,855 locations and 25,100 stalls (if supercharge.info is accurate). I suppose Tesla is global rather than US but that nevertheless gives a sense of magnitude. And Electrify America seems like a shaky situation of ownership that will not improve from their required targets rapidly especially given mediocre sales rate for them.

A statistic I picked up about gas stations

There are about 115,000 gas stations in the U.S. That figure has dropped sharply over the last two decades.

I wonder when supercharger stalls and gas station pumps cross (ignoring the difference in time at the pump for simplicity but also ignoring that supercharger use is not the main way to charge -- my guess is this more than balances out in favor of SC except for holiday travel and weekends so its a complex subject). If anyone knows somebody that owns a gas station I'd recommend helping them out a bit on their thinking i.e. sell sooner rather than later.
 
Of course Tesla has the data and I don't and the data is very comprehensive so they probably aren't flying blind.
This is the key.

Some of the newer stations have more stalls 20 or more, but there are still small sites being installed with 4 to 8 chargers.

I think the data is telling Tesla where to install chargers, and how many stalls to build.

Some of that data is sales data. How many cars were purchased within driving distance of that charger, and does another charger service that fleet?

Everyone would like the rollout to go faster, but my hunch is the priorities are mostly right..
 
This is the key.

Some of the newer stations have more stalls 20 or more, but there are still small sites being installed with 4 to 8 chargers.

I think the data is telling Tesla where to install chargers, and how many stalls to build.

Some of that data is sales data. How many cars were purchased within driving distance of that charger, and does another charger service that fleet?

Everyone would like the rollout to go faster, but my hunch is the priorities are mostly right..

Yeah given that they have incredibly precise data about occupancy rates it is a generally simple problem it seems to me. One of the major advantages to growing as fast as they are and with the kind of growth we expect this decade it almost seems impossible to me that they put in a stall that doesn't end up justifying itself. The biggest problem I suppose is installing technology early that gets leapfrogged, or if presumably strategy changes and/or government interferes.
 
The run to $900 in early Jan was no "momo move"; Momo doesn't cause a further 30% gain in 8 days, 17 days after the event.

No, the move to $900 was a short covering rally; MMs had sold short about 40M+ shares by the end of Dec 2020. That $900 SP is what was required for long term holders to actually hand over that volume of shares (Ron Baron's fund sold too early in Dec at ~$640, haha).

A simple supply'vs'demand economics model predicted the Jan SP peak given short interest data as of Dec 31, 2020.

Don't trivialize that fact that those shares were largely sold to S&P 500 Index Funds (this is a crucial difference vs Aug 2020). These are organizations who will not accept a mere Broker's promise that they hold their shares. Large Funds are actual Beneficial Holders of the shares they own, and thus their ownership is registered in their name with Tesla's share distribution agent.

No group pooling scams were possible in Jan 2021, like happened to many Retail investors here at TMC upon the Fri, Aug 29, 2020 share dividend. Some retain investors didn't receive their rightfully owned shares in their accounts until Thu, Sep 3, 2020 or even later. In the mean time, they were denied access to their legally owned shares. What did that cost, you ask?

These retail shareholders were unable to trade 80% of their shares while the SP plunged, beginning in the Pre-market on Aug 31, 2020 ($538 @ 7:01 when Tesla announced their $5B share offering, giving shorts an escape hatch from the ongoing squeeze). SP plunged over 14% to $470 by 10:00 am. That's the power of a short squeeze, and the effect when the buying pressure is relieved: (the effect? Retail holds the bag)

View attachment 681474 View attachment 681475

In 2021, any counterfeit shares sold to Index Funds would be easily detected ; Funds would sue any MMs or Hedgie that performed their usual 'fail-to-locate | short-sale | fail-to-deliver' kabuki dance. That's why the SP marched up to $900 in early Jan 2021; because MMs and hedgies HAD to locate and purchase real shares. It's called the law of supply and demand, and it's how the Markets are supposed to work.

Instead, legalized naked short selling by Options Market Makers (via SEC Reg. SHO, a.k.a. the "Madoff exemption"), allows the priviledged few to violate the law of supply and demand, and has artificially depressed TSLA's share price for years (except for brief breakouts). And the situation is not getting any better: as TSLA market cap increases, more MMs are piling in with their manipulation games. It's literal free money to them, and almost without risk since the SEC has turned a blind eye on MMs behaviour, it's long-term damage to both retail investors, and to the Market itself.

In the meantime, MMs and Hedgies play fat, dumb and happy. That is, until the next round of share dividend induced panic-buy-to-cover-shorts they've hidden since February as the SEC snoozes. This level of manipulation and white-collar crime can not continue, and will not end well. Who will break first?

The situation is ridiculous, embarrassing, and routinely ignored in polite society of NYC.

#GAMESTOP

The run to $900 in early Jan was no "momo move"; Momo doesn't cause a further 30% gain in 8 days, 17 days after the event.

No, the move to $900 was a short covering rally; MMs had sold short about 40M+ shares by the end of Dec 2020. That $900 SP is what was required for long term holders to actually hand over that volume of shares (Ron Baron's fund sold too early in Dec at ~$640, haha).

A simple supply'vs'demand economics model predicted the Jan SP peak given short interest data as of Dec 31, 2020.

Don't trivialize that fact that those shares were largely sold to S&P 500 Index Funds (this is a crucial difference vs Aug 2020). These are organizations who will not accept a mere Broker's promise that they hold their shares. Large Funds are actual Beneficial Holders of the shares they own, and thus their ownership is registered in their name with Tesla's share distribution agent.

No group pooling scams were possible in Jan 2021, like happened to many Retail investors here at TMC upon the Fri, Aug 29, 2020 share dividend. Some retain investors didn't receive their rightfully owned shares in their accounts until Thu, Sep 3, 2020 or even later. In the mean time, they were denied access to their legally owned shares. What did that cost, you ask?

These retail shareholders were unable to trade 80% of their shares while the SP plunged, beginning in the Pre-market on Aug 31, 2020 ($538 @ 7:01 when Tesla announced their $5B share offering, giving shorts an escape hatch from the ongoing squeeze). SP plunged over 14% to $470 by 10:00 am. That's the power of a short squeeze, and the effect when the buying pressure is relieved: (the effect? Retail holds the bag)

View attachment 681474 View attachment 681475

In 2021, any counterfeit shares sold to Index Funds would be easily detected ; Funds would sue any MMs or Hedgie that performed their usual 'fail-to-locate | short-sale | fail-to-deliver' kabuki dance. That's why the SP marched up to $900 in early Jan 2021; because MMs and hedgies HAD to locate and purchase real shares. It's called the law of supply and demand, and it's how the Markets are supposed to work.

Instead, legalized naked short selling by Options Market Makers (via SEC Reg. SHO, a.k.a. the "Madoff exemption"), allows the priviledged few to violate the law of supply and demand, and has artificially depressed TSLA's share price for years (except for brief breakouts). And the situation is not getting any better: as TSLA market cap increases, more MMs are piling in with their manipulation games. It's literal free money to them, and almost without risk since the SEC has turned a blind eye on MMs behaviour, it's long-term damage to both retail investors, and to the Market itself.

In the meantime, MMs and Hedgies play fat, dumb and happy. That is, until the next round of share dividend induced panic-buy-to-cover-shorts they've hidden since February as the SEC snoozes. This level of manipulation and white-collar crime can not continue, and will not end well. Who will break first?

The situation is ridiculous, embarrassing, and routinely ignored in polite society of NYC.

#GAMESTOP
One way Tesla can deal with this is periodically, at right time, issue share dividend splits?
What makes for "right timing" in general? Perhaps, when the next few quarters are expected to have performance well above street expectations?

Do you see this tweet indicating such split?
 
This is pre-2019 deja vu to me. Nothing but good news from Tesla and various sources on Twitter and TMC, but a lot of negative fake news/FUD from traditional news outlets, and the stock going down when it should be shooting up. I was rage buying shares for 4 years and then made out like a bandit when the stock finally broke out. With 20 Million cars/year in the not too distant future, another big jump is inevitable. My advice - keep buying shares with every pay check and HODL. If we are stuck here for a while, buying options will = money flushed down the toilet. If we aren't over 700 by ER, I'm going to start selling covered calls again even if the SP is low, because I will see that as a sign that nothing will happen for a while.
ARK is rage-buying, too 😛


edit: as noted by @kengchang and @Tes La Ferrari
 
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