Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[CorneliusXX]

Signing out again

We'd prefer it if you didn't

 

[lklundin]

Again, I'm trying not to post, but isn't this grounds for finding the SEC in contempt of court?

Making falsified quotations in legal filings is an attempt to defraud the court.



After that, I would request that the SEC be sanctioned for attempting to defraud the court. But then I'm vindictive.

Thank you so much for your valuable contribution.

 

[ReflexFunds]

@teslataxisea "People are asking us, “what is the Max SOC for the Model 3 after 42,000 miles driven”. Prior to the software update, our max SOC was 308-310 on a hot day. Now we’re achieving 324 of 325. It appears that the pack needed to be balanced out before. Officially SOC has lost 1 mile"

Reports here of basically zero degradation on Model 3 battery after 42k miles. In fact, range has actually increased 14 miles due to Tesla's software update.

Has anyone seen any other data for high mileage Model 3s?

 

[AndyH]

You don't think there's a factual dispute when the SEC asserts that Musk wrote "will make 500K" in a particular tweet (using quotation marks) and in actual fact that is not what he wrote? While Musk says, accurately, that he wrote "around 500K"?

That looks like a factual dispute to me. Two claims, in quotation marks, about exactly what was tweeted. One claim is true, one is false. Enter evidence of the tweet to resolve the dispute.

I didn't react to Elon being misquoted when I read it. Most of the time the SEC quoted "around 500k". But there was one mishap near the end when they quoted "will make 500k". Still bad. I bet the SEC really whish that the word "around" wasn't used in the tweet.

And wtf does "around 500" really mean? Does it mean 499-501 or 400-600? No one can decide that. This SEC-nonsense is so stupid.

 

[Remus]

This is for people who still dreams about buffet investing in TSLA
Warren Buffett: We paid too much for Kraft, not Heinz

Link from Yahoo w.r.t. Buffet's investment philosophy, if I understand correctly, is to feast on people's blind faith on well known brand.

Apparently he saw the cracks already: people keep experiment with different brands. For some reason he stick to his philosophy. I guess we do have a couple of decade left for that maybe? But doesn't the shrinking of Harley Davidson tells you much?!

This is a completely different mind sets from how Tesla operates.

 

[Antares Nebula]

What the hell does Jim Cramer know? He's just parroting the media headlines. Has he read the the briefs? Does he know that what Musk tweeted was prior knowledge. I was 50-50 on Cramer before, but screw him. Won't be watching or reading any of his articles or shows!! I have zero respect for ignorant media personalities that just tow the popular narrative regardless of facts.

 

[K_Dizzle]

On a more positive note I’d like to hear everyone December 31st share price targets.

 

[Tslynk67]

Sorry, it's no true at all that Elon and Tesla didn't make a good-faith effort to comply with a settlement - it's a false narrative of the SEC, and it is a bad faith argument to such a degree that I think the SEC lawyers should be sanctioned for it.

Here's a LONG list of good faith compliance measures of both Elon and Tesla making a lot of good faith effort to comply with the settlement:

• Elon stepped-down from his position of Chairman of the Board
• Tesla chose two new independent directors, not objected to by the SEC,
  
• Tesla hired a new securities counsel, ran by and not objected to by the SEC,
• Tesla formed a new Disclosure Committee of independent directors and worked out a disclosure policy,
  
• Elon consciously chose a particularly safe method to comply: he started self-censoring every tweet after the Disclosure Committee was established, avoiding ANY mention of material or potentially material information,
• This method, by definition, resulted in him not having to pass through tweets the Disclosure Committee or the securities laweyr,
  
• As a result the number of Elon's tweets dropped roughly in half compared to the period before, as laid out in the expert opinion,
• Elon also limited most of his Tesla tweets to after market hours,
  
• This was all a result of his self-censorship and good-faith effort to avoid conflict with the SEC.
• Tesla not only established the Disclosure Committee that held several hearings, but they also had a lawyer on line who was real-time monitoring every tweet of Elon, and was giving him feedback. This wasn't required by the settlement, yet they implemented it, proving that Tesla and Elon went way beyond the letter of the settlement to get the SEC off their backs.
• Furthermore, the clarification tweet was the result of and is proof of this exact monitoring effort: Tesla counsel indicated to Elon that the "about 500k cars" tweet might be ambiguous and that out of abundance of caution they wrote a second tweet clarifying what he meant.
• Tesla paid $20,000,000 and Elon paid another $20,000,000 in "fines".

The fact that Elon didn't send a single tweet for securities counsel was undisputed in Elon's reply motion, and the SEC bringing it up as a failure is an intentionally misconstrued, borderline dishonest legal argument.

The SEC moved against Elon I believe because they WANTED conflict and they wanted confrontation for unknown reasons, and the SEC WANTED to punish Elon for being disrespectful of the SEC's action, which btw. was before the Disclosure Committee and the new policy went into effect.

I take great pleasure in nitpicking your posts, @FC, but take it as a compliment as it means I read them in depth

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Again, I'm trying not to post, but isn't this grounds for finding the SEC in contempt of court?

Making falsified quotations in legal filings is an attempt to defraud the court.



After that, I would request that the SEC be sanctioned for attempting to defraud the court. But then I'm vindictive.

It does seem like putting out a directly false statement of facts in public, on a subject they, themselves, point out is material to Tesla investors should be deserving of some action... hmmm.... Hmmmmmmmmmm....

 

[Big Earl]

Again, I'm trying not to post, but isn't this grounds for finding the SEC in contempt of court?

Making falsified quotations in legal filings is an attempt to defraud the court.



After that, I would request that the SEC be sanctioned for attempting to defraud the court. But then I'm vindictive.

This needs to get posted on Twitter and get some press. @ZachShahan

 

[ReflexFunds]

I didn't react to Elon being misquoted when I read it. Most of the time the SEC quoted "around 500k". But there was one mishap near the end when they quoted "will make 500k". Still bad. I bet the SEC really whish that the word "around" wasn't used in the tweet.

And wtf does "around 500" really mean? Does it mean 499-501 or 400-600? No one can decide that. This SEC-nonsense is so stupid.

Given Elon's guidance on the Q4 call is equivalent to 400-600k total production, I'd guess that's what Elon meant. If he'd said "around half a million" rather than than "around 500k" i'm sure what he meant would have been a lot more obvious to the SEC. There is a heavy tendency towards character efficient language on Twitter though unfortunately, often at the expense of clarity. A similar cause of the "funding secured" tweet problems.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

I didn't react to Elon being misquoted when I read it. Most of the time the SEC quoted "around 500k". But there was one mishap near the end when they quoted "will make 500k". Still bad. I bet the SEC really whish that the word "around" wasn't used in the tweet.

And wtf does "around 500" really mean? Does it mean 499-501 or 400-600? No one can decide that. This SEC-nonsense is so stupid.

Note that they’re requesting this finding of contempt for exactly such a mishap on Musk’s side(although his ended up aligning with publicly disclosed numbers anyway).

 

[humbaba]

My guess: Tesla is seeing a good mix of people opting for the SR+, so they could safely eliminate the probably lower margin MR, splitting that demand into three directions:

• Long Range upgrade
• SR+ and a higher take-rate for AutoPilot
• maybe some SR
• Very few lost sales - people can either downgrade or upgrade the battery pack.

They probably figured that it's an overall margin improvement - and it would also increase the effective battery cell supply at the Gigafactory (a higher mix of SR/SR+ results in fewer cells being manufactured into more battery packs), which appears to be the current manufacturing bottleneck.

Good points, but I think it should not be neglected that the MR was introduced as a stop gap (we can do it now, rather than February) and it was going to go away at some point. The timing was the only question.

This still seems shitty. I am ordering a new car and paying 8k. My dads car ordered in December cost me far more than a M3 would today and since I ordered EAP for him, I'm paying $7k + tax for his FSD in total. Yet those who didnt order anything ahead of time, are being rewarded with 5k FSD instead of punished. While its the early adopters that are in fact being punished. I get that we are all bulls here, but this is garbage. Anyone that says otherwise is rationalizing.

Aren't you neglecting that there was an extra $3,750 tax break in December? I'm the poster child here for not qualifying for tax breaks so I really paid significantly more for my Tesla than other folks.

I object to the contention that I'm "rationalizing" -- rather I accept that it was my decision to buy. There was a common belief, that turned out to be correct, that prices would drop with the reduced tax break. I thought Tesla would not because they needed the money to grow, but I knew it was a possibility that the price would drop. I also expected the MR to be removed with the SR introduction. Turns out there was a slight overlap, but -- honestly -- trying to time these things for minimum cost to oneself is difficult.

It also sounds like someone complaining that their brand new 386 was just obsoleted by the 486. Technology moves fast: you can spend now, or delay and delay. But either way, its your choice.

 

[Todd Burch]

This still seems shitty. I am ordering a new car and paying 8k. My dads car ordered in December cost me far more than a M3 would today and since I ordered EAP for him, I'm paying $7k + tax for his FSD in total. Yet those who didnt order anything ahead of time, are being rewarded with 5k FSD instead of punished. While its the early adopters that are in fact being punished. I get that we are all bulls here, but this is garbage. Anyone that says otherwise is rationalizing.

That's how it works. you pay extra to get to the front of the line. I was the 3rd person in the state of Virginia to get a Model S. Bunch of people bought Model S's a year later than me, paid less, and got more features (like parking sensors). I understood it. That's how it works. But I guess I'm just rationalizing.

By the way, I have a plasma TV I paid $10,000 for that I'd like to sell you. Oh, but you can buy this far superior OLED right over here for less than half that.

 

[humbaba]

I have not complained (much) about the M3 I got my dad for Xmas being devalued or my Model S resale being destroyed. However, the pricing schedule of EAP and FSD was set to incentivize us to buy early or be punished. Please show me what early access to EAP or full self driving I have received? We early supporters are simply being overcharged and punished for giving Tesla a free loan. The least they could do is honor their promises to us or make it right.

First: EAP includes some of what is now FSD -- so for $5k you get parts of FSD past the current $3k AP
Second: Benefit from EAP for the last months
Third: Buying EAP early was rewarded with $2k for FSD (less than what it cost originally)
Fourth: Buying EAP+FSD early was rewarded with access to early adopter -- so the "early access" gets continued

 

[Tslynk67]

the people I spoke to were aware of this, lets get this thread back on track though. my only point is to take people's legal opinions, who aren't lawyers, with many grains of salt. confirmation bias is a hell of a thing, thats all.

Your point is valid. On the other hand, I've read the filings, not just the posts about the filings, and I agree with @FC's synopsis

 

[Fact Checking]

The least they could do is honor their promises to us or make it right.

What HW does your Model S have? If you bought FSD I'm pretty sure you'll get HW 3.

 

[Antares Nebula]

People where can I direct my Texan friends to protest online the Tesla situation?

 

[anthonyj]

On a more positive note I’d like to hear everyone December 31st share price targets.

Anywhere between 244-389

 

[MP3Mike]

Carsonight said that 1 of the 3 S&X lines have been shut down for all of q1.

But we know that is wrong as there aren't three lines and never have been. He also says he has no inside information about Fremont.

He is just mis-reporting public information about shift changes on the S&X lines.