Wow, impressed that you spotted that - I had to run it at half speed to see it.
@CorneliusXX it's red, so not yours
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
@CorneliusXX it's red, so not yours
Wow, Renault employees and union are under distress due to supply chain shortages and the transition to EVs
--Between the Covid-19, the shortage of semiconductors, the drop in sales, job cuts and the transition to electric vehicles, among automotive manufacturers Renault and Stellantis, the accumulation of uncertainties is weighing down the morale of French employees, "far from being out of the tunnel", report the unions.
--to manufacture an electric motor, it takes "six to seven times fewer parts than for a heat engine", specifies Gabriel Artero, president of this union federation. And "3.5 times less time", adds a professional in the sector. With "less staff", adds another.
"It plunges employees into the unknown", who already "pay with flexibility" for the current chaotic situation,
--Those responsible for developing "the latest thermal or hybrid engines are overloaded with work", but they are "without prospects" because the management "does not know how to guarantee them the future".
www-capital-fr.translate.goog
--Between the Covid-19, the shortage of semiconductors, the drop in sales, job cuts and the transition to electric vehicles, among automotive manufacturers Renault and Stellantis, the accumulation of uncertainties is weighing down the morale of French employees, "far from being out of the tunnel", report the unions.
--to manufacture an electric motor, it takes "six to seven times fewer parts than for a heat engine", specifies Gabriel Artero, president of this union federation. And "3.5 times less time", adds a professional in the sector. With "less staff", adds another.
"It plunges employees into the unknown", who already "pay with flexibility" for the current chaotic situation,
--Those responsible for developing "the latest thermal or hybrid engines are overloaded with work", but they are "without prospects" because the management "does not know how to guarantee them the future".
Chez Renault et Stellantis, les incertitudes plombent le moral des salariés
Le secteur automobile est en proie à de nombreuses incertitudes liées au Covid-19, à la baisse des ventes de véhicules, à des suppressions de postes... Les syndicats s'inquiètent des "risques psycho-sociaux".,
Again if everyone did this, revenue would fall to zero and Tesla would be a distant memory of something good that might have happened.
The decision I am most proud of in my Tesla history is buying a S85 sight unseen in March of 2013, not the millions I have made since.
Anyone delaying the purchase of a car they desperately want that is part of a transition to a future they desperately want in order to count their future profits is not thinking straight.
Tesla products and the appreciation of TSLA both produce a positive feedback loop.
Those who wouldn't afford a Tesla buys TSLA. Tsla appreciates, that person now use the proceeds to buy a Tesla. Loves the car so much that all his future earnings goes into buying TSLA. Owning Tsla actually gives people a sense of brand loyalty as you don't want to support the other guys, you continue to buy Tesla made products because you wish for your own stock to appreciate. The cycle continues until infinity.
So Tsla being a VERY popular millennial stock is another "free advertisement" arrow in Tesla's quiver.
Time for a little "Thank you" and some thoughts into 2050
I read basically everything in this tread, I even remember a time when the tread was recreated on a yearly basis, feels like a lifetime ago. Usually, I don't feel capable to provide any extra knowledge, but I would like to talk about something which usually can't be packed in classic fundamental metrics. Obviously, it has been discussed here already:
A company’s mindset or Teslas ability to get *sugar* done
You can copy great tech rather easily, but it is magnitudes more difficult to change a company’s culture, the way people think, discuss, communicate, and commit towards a common goal.
We obviously want to focus on the positive change in the following: (From great culture to bad culture only needs a new management and some bad investment decisions and you ruined a company within days).
To change the mindset and to get a really committed team together from an existing one which is not really committed is probably almost impossible.
See VW, I guess Herbert Diess is spending sleepless nights about how to change the way VW thinks and gets challenges done (or not).
The best option to get to a ROIC in Teslas ballpark would probably be to sell every single brand together with their debts within the group except the Rimac part Porsche holds and maybe a few young "unburned" engineers and hope that some cash is left after everything is sold and start from scratch.
But this "easy" option is obviously not available, therefor he must try to change the course of this Behemoth from within. Is this possible? Maybe if Tesla doesn't exist, but given they only have a few years left to transform their way to create innovation and get it in use, I don't think any of the old guard will exist in that form in a decade because they can’t change their mindset fast enough.
Do you remember Standard Oil?
I expect Tesla doesn't exist as a company in 2050 anymore. Why? Because Tesla will be Standard Oil'ed by then because they will have become way too dominant. 2030 starts in a bit more than 8 years, Tesla will then already sell more cars then VW, Toyota and Mercedes combined.
Does anybody think Tesla will stop scaling at 20 M. cars?
They will have more money to invest than any other company on the planet, they will have the best talent. Who is going to tell them: Ok, STOP! We want to have competition; you are all fired.
I, as a chairsholder will not, you probably neither?
So, what happens if they scale further with the speed of the year 2030 (random guess: let’s say 5 M. car production added in 2030) and let’s be conservative and say Tesla predicts, they can't grow exponential forever because the full market is the limit, so we just keep the speed without further increase.
In 2040 Tesla would produce (10 years, 5 M. each = 50 M. cars + 20 M. 2030 production =>) 70 M. cars/year.
This is probably already more than requested from the market because the cars can be used far longer than today.
This leaves no room for anybody else in the transportation market.
I currently really don't see an obvious second scenario. Some small highly specialised company’s might survive just because Tesla doesn't care.
There was a "few" years ago a crazy guy called Hannibal, this madlad managed to get some elephants into the roman empire, on the land way, over the alps.
Tesla doesn't have to go that far; VW Headquarters is only a good two hours ride from Giga Berlin.
Thank you all for your knowledge and wisdom!
PS: The last time I posted I was traveling the world from Switzland to Giga Shanghai, Fremont and back, unfortunately we couldn't make it to the factory tour because of the pandemic. And rather late then never big shout out to our @BrianZ BrianZ. He already booked the tour to take us, 3 strangers from the internet, with him. If you are ever in Zurich Switzerland, write me, I will invite you for dinner!
I read basically everything in this tread, I even remember a time when the tread was recreated on a yearly basis, feels like a lifetime ago. Usually, I don't feel capable to provide any extra knowledge, but I would like to talk about something which usually can't be packed in classic fundamental metrics. Obviously, it has been discussed here already:
A company’s mindset or Teslas ability to get *sugar* done
You can copy great tech rather easily, but it is magnitudes more difficult to change a company’s culture, the way people think, discuss, communicate, and commit towards a common goal.
We obviously want to focus on the positive change in the following: (From great culture to bad culture only needs a new management and some bad investment decisions and you ruined a company within days).
To change the mindset and to get a really committed team together from an existing one which is not really committed is probably almost impossible.
See VW, I guess Herbert Diess is spending sleepless nights about how to change the way VW thinks and gets challenges done (or not).
The best option to get to a ROIC in Teslas ballpark would probably be to sell every single brand together with their debts within the group except the Rimac part Porsche holds and maybe a few young "unburned" engineers and hope that some cash is left after everything is sold and start from scratch.
But this "easy" option is obviously not available, therefor he must try to change the course of this Behemoth from within. Is this possible? Maybe if Tesla doesn't exist, but given they only have a few years left to transform their way to create innovation and get it in use, I don't think any of the old guard will exist in that form in a decade because they can’t change their mindset fast enough.
Do you remember Standard Oil?
I expect Tesla doesn't exist as a company in 2050 anymore. Why? Because Tesla will be Standard Oil'ed by then because they will have become way too dominant. 2030 starts in a bit more than 8 years, Tesla will then already sell more cars then VW, Toyota and Mercedes combined.
Does anybody think Tesla will stop scaling at 20 M. cars?
They will have more money to invest than any other company on the planet, they will have the best talent. Who is going to tell them: Ok, STOP! We want to have competition; you are all fired.
I, as a chairsholder will not, you probably neither?
So, what happens if they scale further with the speed of the year 2030 (random guess: let’s say 5 M. car production added in 2030) and let’s be conservative and say Tesla predicts, they can't grow exponential forever because the full market is the limit, so we just keep the speed without further increase.
In 2040 Tesla would produce (10 years, 5 M. each = 50 M. cars + 20 M. 2030 production =>) 70 M. cars/year.
This is probably already more than requested from the market because the cars can be used far longer than today.
This leaves no room for anybody else in the transportation market.
I currently really don't see an obvious second scenario. Some small highly specialised company’s might survive just because Tesla doesn't care.
There was a "few" years ago a crazy guy called Hannibal, this madlad managed to get some elephants into the roman empire, on the land way, over the alps.
Tesla doesn't have to go that far; VW Headquarters is only a good two hours ride from Giga Berlin.
Thank you all for your knowledge and wisdom!
PS: The last time I posted I was traveling the world from Switzland to Giga Shanghai, Fremont and back, unfortunately we couldn't make it to the factory tour because of the pandemic. And rather late then never big shout out to our @BrianZ BrianZ. He already booked the tour to take us, 3 strangers from the internet, with him. If you are ever in Zurich Switzerland, write me, I will invite you for dinner!
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Gigapress
Trying to be less wrong
The point was that there is no realistic scenario where everyone would do this because the price would rise at the same time sales are falling.
CLK350
Member
My take is that this is more for his political stance in Germany - recall, he's had to tough it out with his superiors (the Porsche clan or ?) - IIRC at one point he threatened to leave if his contract wasn't extended (so he would have time to see his initiatives yield some results). He won that part, but I'm sure he still has foes all around both within VW and outside. So his Elon invite can be seen as an offensive defense vs his detractors; and to help justify the always tough layoffs/ reorganizations he probably wants/ needs to implement.
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And to think Elon also said :” probably Energy will be bigger than Cars”.
It’s like they know the future, or something.
I am specifically referring to people who can purchase a car they desire but postpone for the future profits they are so certain of.
These people would be richer selling their crystal balls instead. No one can be certain of anything in the market. That's a hindsight 20/20 argument fallacy.
lafrisbee
Active Member
if you read alot, stop take a break
chill with Chet...it's worth the time cuz its funny too
chill with Chet...it's worth the time cuz its funny too
BrownOuttaSpec
Active Member
Unfortunately it has to do with SpaceX and not Tesla. They are putting the Chopstick arms on Mechazilla to catch Starship. What??
Due to the staged construction, I expect the Y lines will be running before the rest of the building is done.
The climate crisis is a survival situation for humanity to my way of thinking. In which case, we don’t have the latitude to indulge such sentiment. Yes, there are limits, but we need to be pretty hard headed as well as hard hearted I’m afraid. We must muddle through as best we might with all of the resources at our disposal and that includes VW and the American legacies (if we can bludgeon the latter into making BEV’s in quantity anytime soon).
This is the same reason why I am distressed to see it when people’s energy to address climate change is redirected to address other issues, such as social issues. This happens, for example, when legislation that would help address climate change is bound to that which would address other issues. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions (just ask the Venusians
).Which is to say that there are ways around the Manchins of the world‘s governments. All folks have to do is to give up the impetus climate change affords their pet issues and allow climate change to be addressed as a stand alone issue.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
I appreciate every one of you that bought before me and am happy to wave or give a thumb up to every one I pass.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
So long as there is a waiting list I'm not hurting the company by waiting, as soon as there is a price drop and a short wait time I'll be ready to jump in and help out. Depending on when, I might even buy two different models.
The Accountant
Active Member
I thought I was looking at Model Y RHD (which I think would be new) but they may have been Model 3s.
Can't tell looking at that video now on my mobile.
My dad had the chance to try my Model 3 I paid cash in 2019 instead of financing and investing more in TSLA at that moment. Every time I was travelling abroad, he was droving me to the airport as he was living close to the airport and I told him to enjoy driving my Tesla as much as possible when I was gone. It contrasted with his old Buick Rendezvous. He got to see and ride in my Model Y when I gave a test drive to my nephew just before he got admitted to palliative care unit for metastatic gastric cancer, he did not have the strength to drive anymore. He was so eager to see the Cybertruck since he had owned 2 different pick up trucks when we were camping when I was younger. I am so happy he enjoyed driving my Model 3, was it worth $500,000 of TSLA stock? For someone with limited time, I’d say yes.That's the pro financial move right there, with the only downside being that you're deferring some aspect of happiness in relating to Tesla ownership. There's no guarantee in life or *of* life, but planning for the future is important. As always there's a balance and you're the arbiter of that. My Dad died at 56 (three years older than I am now) so that affects my perception of time and how much future I might presume to have.
Renting a Tesla in 2018 is what convinced me that this amazing vehicle is from the future, and I need to invest now. Tesla was my first-ever investment, but I didn't have free capital until 2020 despite giving others some tips about my predictions.
For my part, no regrets here either. I had the Tesla buying experience and owned a rare unicorn P3D- for about a year. I experienced Tesla's superior engineering first hand and in my 'dream' trim. Once COVID hit, I became a permanent work-from-home employee like so many others around the world and sold my car at the height of the hot seller's market for used Teslas (given the waiting list). I invested nearly all of that capital back into TSLA.
It did cost me money. What I gained was Tesla ownership during my early 50s and before I got hit with vertigo (still working on cause/cure). I was able to convince my girlfriend to buy a Tesla (vs. luxury ICE vehicles) because of my Tesla ownership. Got her to invest in TSLA too.
The funny thing is that after all that I'm still driving her Tesla because she lets me drive hers, but my 'not advice' for her to buy TSLA is making her money and likely will for the foreseeable future.
There's always some cost/benefit with these decisions and I enjoy reading the plurality of experiences from various forum members.
I will be financing my trimotor cybertruck and will purchase a Trimotor with no hesitation and go camping with the kids and family to give them the passion my dad for camping and for the outdoor. It might be a sounder financial move to put all that money in TSLA but life is shorter than we might think. Don’t hesitate to enjoy your gains from TSLA. My dad has worked 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 50 weeks a year and is now in palliative care only after a decade of retirement. He still had hundreds of thousand dollars in savings which he earned with hard labor and won’t be enjoying any once of it. Enjoy life everyone.
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