Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[StarFoxisDown!]

NOT Elon’s problem or responsibility if and when certain shareholders need to sell.

A shareholder has responsibilities to:

Understand that which they’ve invested in; including but not restricted to the people running the show.
Understand the dynamics of the stock market and the people which are running that show.
Make decisions in their best interest - which includes but isn’t specific to managing their invested finances appropriately and based on what they know about the first two points I made.
Stop blaming other people for the situations they find themselves in that are not to their liking.

Simply put, Elon does have a responsibility to the shareholders as the CEO........of a PUBLICLY traded company and one of those responsibilities is to not harm your shareholders. I don't care if you think Shareholder A or B or C isn't handling their investment to your standard. If you don't want to have a responsibility to shareholders, don't take your company public.

Obviously you feel differently, I don't feel the same. Agree to disagree. Not going to get in a back n forth on this. Mod's can feel free to delete my posts but I won't be responding to this topic anymore.

 

[Sunvalleylaw]

Looks like for now, it is bouncing back up. Won’t be set up to buy in fast enough to get today’s price anyway. So, will get set up and find a time to bet some shares as part of my long range plan. Will be interesting to see if the sell off is over, or if this is going to go on for a couple weeks as some have suggested.

 

[Nocturnal]

Maybe then idiots like Bernie can put 2+2 together.

That will never happen. They know what they are doing, but it's a narrative they are pushing.

 

[FEERSUMENDJIN]

I think that if it wasn't for falcon wing doors there would have be 3 Teslas on that list

All 4 models in top 10 !

 

[MXWing]

How exactly are you being hurt as a shareholder? Exactly. Be specific. Because I’m a shareholder with a whole lot more shares than you, and I’m not being hurt. I’m being endlessly entertained, though. Or maybe I’m unaware I’m being beaten over the head, so explain how I’m being hurt, please and thanks.

As a shareholder do you not have the same opportunity as Wallstreet to get cheap shares? Even the likes of @Unpilot knows to buy and we all know he’s not the brightest light on the Christmas tree.

Waiting with bated breath…but holding out no hope for a logical answer since I’m still waiting for the answer from previous ‘shareholders are being hurt’ complaints about how funding secured hurt me as a shareholder.

Anyone who has to sell (includes retirees living off TSLA) would be hurt. They could be selling at 1200 instead of sub 1000.

The same class above would also be unable to buy the dip.

If Q4 is a successful blow out, we would be happy to retest 1200. But if we were already at 1200, maybe it's 1300-1400?

This kind of volatility only helps shareholders if they are dip buyers. Option traders can make a ton but I don't consider them shareholders.

NOT Elon’s problem or responsibility if and when certain shareholders need to sell.

This isn't the question though. It's if TSLA shareholders are hurt. Yes/No - I would argue yes.

Your friend shouldn’t be asking you anything. If he needed to sell for a down payment he had PLENTY of opportunity to sell on the run up from $700 to $1200+. What exactly was he waiting for? Maybe he needs to also change the narrative in his head and thank his lucky stars Elon and Tesla killed themselves making Q3 such a success causing your friend not to have to sell shares at $550 for his down payment. If he sells today he has cut down the shares needed to sell by 40%ish. What’s so awful about that?

Did Elon help his friend (a shareholder) with recent tweeting activity? Yes/No. That's it.

Does Elon have an actual fiduciary duty to keep the stock as high as possible? Yes/No

 

[Todd Burch]

I wonder if Papa Elon has a limit to a max number of shares to sell per day, even if the price is going up.

 

[SmokyPeat]

These shares are a bargain compared to a few weeks ago, and expensive compared to a few months ago. But mid to long term, Tesla as a company is creating tons of value, so dont worry about it. But also, dont leverage in short term unless you are asking for trouble!

I agree with the general sentiment, except Tesla shares are pretty much valued right where they were three weeks ago.

 

[Nocturnal]

He hasn’t harmed you or the mission in any way. Have a little perspective and work on changing the negative narrative you like to nurture in your head.

Every potential Tesla buyer that is turned off and looks elsewhere because he can't control himself does hurt the mission.

I'll flip this around. How does joking that Sanders is old and could be dead HELP the mission? I don't understand how some of you folks think that Elon is infallible.

I think he will be proving his point rather effectively.

Musk owns about 20% of Tesla, so if he sells 10% of his shares, that will be 2% of Tesla's shares sold. The wealth tax proposals floating around are 1% or 2% or 3% per annum of only publicly-traded wealth. So Musk is demonstrating what those proposals actually mean for the markets.

The mob doesn't care about the markets. They believe it doesn't impact them and would probably be happy with everything crashing. Well, they think they would.

 

[Todd Burch]

Every potential Tesla buyer that is turned off and looks elsewhere because he can't control himself does hurt the mission.

I'll flip this around. How does joking that Sanders is old and could be dead HELP the mission? I don't understand how some of you folks think that Elon is infallible.

I worry that general investors (and the whales) will see TSLA as a risky investment and get turned off to it not because the business isn't executing, but because of the random Tweets.

 

[tivoboy]

Looks like for now, it is bouncing back up. Won’t be set up to buy in fast enough to get today’s price anyway. So, will get set up and find a time to bet some shares as part of my long range plan. Will be interesting to see if the sell off is over, or if this is going to go on for a couple weeks as some have suggested.

Don’t worry, you’ll have another chance for sure.

 

[LightngMcQueen]

Elon is trying to present a choice between old do nothing socialist's and a younger generation that actually wants to accomplish.

Unfortunately "The beatings will continue until morale improves"

This is the ecosystem we are dealing with:

politician/legislator -> spending/subsidies $ -> industry $ -> lobbyist $ -> political contributions $


Last decade when Tesla was disrupting Big Oil
... Elon was mostly attacked by political side associated with that industry (just google "Mitt Romney Tesla")

This decade Tesla threatens number of traditionally Progressive interests:
- Tesla already proved that private industry can solve large portion of climate crisis, seriously undermining justification for large government led spending,
- Tesla has competitive advantage that will likely put thousands of UAW employees out of jobs,
- with serious MegaPack deployments essentially started to deliver what the Presidents Obama's Smart Grid was supposed to be, seriously undermining justification for large future government handouts in that area as well (ohh how it must suck to be utility industry lobbyist),
- electrified and likely autonomous trucks kill the argument for $100s of Billons of gov spending on better train infrastructure - however delayed Semi will be, it will still arrive faster than California High Speed Rail ,
- autonomous taxis are likely to displace public transit in low/medium density areas and with help of Boring Company also in many more dense areas, that jeopardizes thousands of unionized public transit jobs.

And so Elon will continue to be slapped from the Left just like he used to be slapped from the Right.

But ... given that most progressive voters are young, they are likely on Twitter and resonate very well with "juvenile" Tweets, you can see the clear Genius of Elon's Madness .

As a long term investor I think about it like that: Every anti-Bernie/AOC tweet that lowers SP by $20 today, adds $400 to SP in 2030.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

I worry that general investors (and the whales) will see TSLA as a risky investment and get turned off to it not because the business isn't executing, but because of the random Tweets.

Bingo. I see this already happening in my local area. Absolutely no doubt this is already happening.

 

[SN_8]

Forum with TSLA meandering in the 600s:

Spoiler

Forum with TSLA in the 900s a few months later:

Spoiler

 

[Sunvalleylaw]

Every potential Tesla buyer that is turned off and looks elsewhere because he can't control himself does hurt the mission.

I'll flip this around. How does joking that Sanders is old and could be dead HELP the mission? I don't understand how some of you folks think that Elon is infallible.

The mob doesn't care about the markets. They believe it doesn't impact them and would probably be happy with everything crashing. Well, they think they would.

The mob, whether it be one that stormed the capital, or decides it’s a good idea to break store windows downtown, are not who I would be listening to with regard to investment advice. But, I think both mobs are a symptom of some systemic issues our country will need to address for the long run. Again, a pretty off-topic and in-depth discussion I would think. I definitely think the free market and innovation and industry has a major role in solving our climate crisis. But I also think that extreme income and wealth inequality ends up being unsustainable in the long run. (See Nick Hanauer) Big issues. Pretty off-topic.

Obviously there is a relationship between Wall Street and Main Street. I kind of wish it wasn’t quite so impactful, but having lived through the Meadows(EDIT: Middle 00’s, Siri error) recession up in a resort mountain town who is real estate market got crushed, I know it exists. I really don’t want that to happen again. And the market seems to have, at least in the short term, some fear-based reactive tendencies. It is when it gets bad enough to really tank everything including real estate and main street business for several years that I worry more about. and as a result, I do not find stoking the fires of volatility to be helpful in any respect. In my opinion, why risk it? But if you are rich enough to be somewhat insulated at least from the worst effects of your tantrums, I guess that doesn’t matter.

 

[feigen66]

That's funny, I've owned thousands of TSLA shares for many years, and I support Bernie... Here's what I believe for now:

1. Elon is using his role as CEO to defend a personal opinion about taxes, and probably to defend his own financial interest
2. Bernie is proposing taxing unrealized gains because
   1. technological disruptions favor winners-take-all/most
   2. founders of these startups hold a significant % of the companies, which quickly become giants
   3. they don't need to sell because they just borrow against their shares thanks to extremely low interest rates
   4. they're quite young (at least compared to the previous generations of ultra rich) so inheritance tax is pretty far in the future
   5. so new wealth is simply not taxed while they hodl
   6. Bernie would have preferred that a large % of the companies' capital was held directly by employees (he's always been pro coop)
   7. but that's not the case, so taxing unrealized gains is the most efficient way to
      1. focus the debate on the ever growing % wealth owned by the ever reducing number of capitalists
      2. forcing the rich to propose alternative ways to reduce inequality without relying only on private initiatives (Elon's proposal is a joke, so far, and he only react with straw man arguments, ad hominem or red herrings)
      3. maybe making people realize that taxing billionaires progressively (even at high rate) does not actually affect growth and innovation, especially in a country like the US (who would claim that Elon led Tesla for money?)

I could go on but that would be quickly deemed off topic (although it's never OT when it's Elon...). It's just that there are so many posts here that pretend that only woke, non-owners, TSLAQ, FUDists (etc) could oppose Elon on this topic...

The Bernie logic assumes all risks are equal but there's rational that founder and early employees hold significant more shares because the risk they have to take.

Those shares can quickly evaporate if the things go south. It wasn't long time ago that Elon wanted to sell Tesla to Apple on the brink of the death.

People seems to conveniently forget about the history when TSLA achieves ATH. The battle of survival has long from over.

Now as US descent into partisan fights, we cannot seem to discuss basic math and numbers without taking sides.

 

[SOULPEDL]

1-2 more weeks of suffering is how I see this playing out .... cheers!!

Oh, a timing prediction based on Elon's perceived selling pattern I assume? Perhaps.

I predict this week we will see something new and unrelated. A complete distraction off taxes and on to some more Tesla Breaking News.
It happens routinely, so time for another one by Friday - I got nothing to go on, just still bullish (Analysts, volume ramp, margins). And 2 weeks is just way too long.

And for your safety, please stand clear of the compressed spring.

 

[Krugerrand]

Maybe read the post I wrote right after that?

Not every investor is in the same position and has the financial ability to just wait out volatility that the CEO himself created

Just because you're in a great position financially doesn't mean others are and I quite frankly get annoyed at that attitude.

And I get equally annoyed when people are happy to blame the closest person for their own situation, which they arrived at all by themselves.

And I get annoyed when people make the assumption or hint at that my current situation was somehow given to me unearned and not by how it actually happened; hard work, sacrifices, smart decisions.

And I get annoyed when people think they need to be an avenging angel megaphone for other grown adults, who have been irresponsible.

And I get annoyed when people don’t recognize their actions for what they really are.

And I get annoyed when people make stuff up like how shareholders are being hurt right now when it’s the furthest thing from the truth.

Plenty of annoyance to go around and yet, still no shareholder is being hurt be Elon. And anyone who says otherwise is an ungrateful human.

 

[22522]

Tbh - This all seems like a pretty interesting experiment being run to see what people care about more in Capitalist societies: making money for their own needs (now and future) or solving societal problems that'll affect them individually too (now and future).

This is important.

In capitalist societies companies make money by serving society efficiently.

As soon as they stop serving society efficiently, they go out of business.

Inefficient businesses exist because they are propped up by government under the (dis)guise of solving societal problems.

Please take a look at:

TODAY AND TOMORROW (Newly Annotated and Illustrated): Timeless Wisdom for a Modern Digital Age: Ford, Henry, Crowther, Samuel, Otterholt, Greg, Akers, Paul A.: 9780990601098: Amazon.com: Books

TODAY AND TOMORROW (Newly Annotated and Illustrated): Timeless Wisdom for a Modern Digital Age [Ford, Henry, Crowther, Samuel, Otterholt, Greg, Akers, Paul A.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. TODAY AND TOMORROW (Newly Annotated and Illustrated): Timeless Wisdom for a Modern...

www.amazon.com

You can tell by the quality books also purchased that it is about truisms.

Often people make the case that companies disrespect shareholders by not being greedy enough with how they treat customers.

Long term, if you don't serve efficiently, "Your margin is our (Amazon's) opportunity." In the words of Jeff.

He puts you out of business. Inviting competition is bad for stockholders.

 

[Singuy]

Elon said the stock price was "too high" and he "wasn't kidding" when the price was ~$780, pre-split.

Many are theorizing this is to pay his tax bill when he exercises his options on nearly 23m shares (which expire next August). Other are theorizing this is to get cash to buy SpaceX stock/options. Who knows.

The least likely reason, to me, is that Elon wants to "prove a point" about a hypothetical wealth tax that doesn't appear to have any likelihood of passing in the next 3-4 years (at the very least).

Well that theory held true until Elon is purposely selling his lowest cost basis shares when he has plenty of high cost basis shares he is not touching. About 4 billion extra dollars are going to taxes when not needed. Those are 4 billion dollars worth of shares he will never see again.

 

[Krugerrand]

Tbh - This all seems like a pretty interesting experiment being run to see what people care about more in Capitalist societies: making money for their own needs (now and future) or solving societal problems that'll affect them individually too (now and future).

Didn’t need to run the experiment. People will always be about the money first. No surprise there.