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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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***In mysterious move, Fireworks store hires a fire extinguisher***

Edit, oh, and TSLAQ hates this so it's probably good news.

So, you're saying you trust TSLAQ's judgement on this matter but not on the rest of their crazy analyses? ;)

The truth of the matter is they will paint anything Tesla does as corrupt, so their opinion is worthless for determining how good this is for TSLA.

The only way it's bad is if the lawyer has a secret hate of Tesla and will be acting as a 'double agent'. However, I completely trust Tesla's management to be able to determine where allegiances lie. I think it's funny that Gary Black doesn't.
 
Personally, I would give the credit for electrifying the car to Detroit Electric.
220px-1911_Detroit_Electric.jpg
 
If the automakers could flip a switch and make PHEVs happen over-night, then they might get 4-5 years of return on that investment. If they have existing cars/ trucks or PHEVs in the pipeline close to launch, it’s a fantastic way for them to make some short term profits.

But investing new money and converting existing production lines? Strikes me as a terrible idea. The window of opportunity is closing here and if they are investing new money into a product which won’t come on the market for 2-3 years it’s likely to be a disaster.

The reason I think the strategy could work for longer than 4-5 years is because I think BEV's will be production constrained for longer than that. A lot of it depends upon how strong the economy stays through this time period.
 
Personally, I would give the credit for electrifying the car to Detroit Electric.
220px-1911_Detroit_Electric.jpg
OT
Was curious so I looked them up Detroit electric wikipedia

the 1911 Detroit electric came with a lead acid battery and a $600 option for an Edison nickel iron battery. Advertised 80 mile range. All together the company produced about 13,000 vehicles between 1907 and 1939.
 
Now I am a Biden supporter and I believe I know what Biden is doing, believe he feels he has to because of the other side. Still this is trolling of Administration by Elon and I think he should go real big. I think Elon should make a very public invitation to the opening of Giga Texas.

"Elon Musk formally invites the President of the United States to attend the grand opening of the Worlds largest Electronic Vehicle manufacturing facility."
I think the future of the planet is better if no president ever sees Texas, as if not seen the crony threat is less recognized. Don’t for a moment think that the Germans have any edge over the Americans on obstruction of progress. Best they never see it.
 
Why does it take so long to be upgraded to investment grade?

From this article it seems like it could still be up to a year away...

Anyone have constructive insight into this timeline?

The valuation milestone comes after S&P Global Ratings on Friday upgraded Tesla’s long-term rating to BB+ from BB. The ratings agency said it expects the company’s deliveries and earnings to remain strong over the next few quarters.
“S&P’s recent upgrade of Tesla has the auto manufacturer knocking on high grade’s door, and we expect the company to cross over to investment grade within the next 12 months, opening up the potential for further financial product offerings,” Levington said.
Ah, the birds and the bees…

So when investment bankers love the same stonk very much, they stick to it and the rating agencies love it too.

Eventually the investment bankers and their mail-order-brides have little investment bankers. Those little investment bankers then hook up with stonks they bump into while drinking in frat houses or playing lacrosse in college.

And, then, when they come to love those stonks very much, they’ll hold on to them forever and ever and the rating agencies will love them ever so much too.

The end. Aww... id’nt dat sweet. Sniff, sniff. 😭

/s

tl;dr: Don’t hold your breath waiting for the generational change.

**No investment bankers were consulted in the making of this sarcasm.**
 
The reason I think the strategy could work for longer than 4-5 years is because I think BEV's will be production constrained for longer than that. A lot of it depends upon how strong the economy stays through this time period.

Since BEVs are supply constrained, BEV makers are going to target the most profitable segments first. The top end of the car market is almost certain to be dominated by the Model Y before long. It’s starting to smell like the top end of the truck market is next. If the Cybertruck turns into a big success, that’s a big hit to GM and Ford’s biggest profit centers right there. That’s on top of whatever chunk of that Market Rivian can carve out.

Legacy auto ends up in the awkward position of chasing the least profitable segments of the industry and pushing downmarket every year.

You and I see eye to eye mostly, it’s just a matter of how quickly this plays out.

More important, if Wall Street sees Ford and GM market share shrinking year after year and them chasing incentives, it’s not going to take long before people realize they are both negative growth companies.
 
Curious as to
The short answer is that there is not necessarily any impetus for another review until the next annual review in 12 months time. S&P (the ratings agency, not index manager) tend to do annual reviews only unless there is very big news, or if there is a capital markets transaction occurring (debt raise or equity raise) for which S&P would be hired to rate.

We see Moody's do a periodic review every year or so. Moody's also will review the company when they review the auto loan securitisations (for which Tesla will pay Moody's). You can see the latest upgrade on 25th March this year coincides with timing of the first securitisation this year. There was a second Tesla auto loan securitisation in September this year, however Moody's didn't make any ratings action announcement at that time.
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Re Tesla Finance LLC:

Would it make sense for Tesla to offer a loan program for car buyers who have TSLA shares to present as collateral?

For Tesla car buyers who own TSLA, they would probably get better rates than straight loans from banks or savings institutions depending on their credit ratings. Process would be simpler, simple transfer of ownership of TSLA stock. How much and what rates .. should be some mutually satisfactory solution. Easy for Tesla to monitor their car whereabouts and usage, which banks cannot do, so there should be some benefits in that.

For Tesla buyers who have investments in other stocks
- they'd have to swap some for TSLA, which probably would be in their interest altho they may not see this till some months later.

For Tesla:

1. This would encourage all younger investors and Tesla fans to just HODL .. till they can own a Tesla car while keeping their shares in the simplest way

2. would also be a show of strength / confidence - and good PR: w/o advertising costs, same as doing without the car dealership model, removing the parasitic side of the banking system. From a conceptual viewpoint, simpler too: you want to help the mission, so allocate personal money to Tesla, and use their products too. Also make profits, nice. [OT] instead of feeding our dysfunctional societal system uber rentiers, including stock market manipulators.

3. Drawbacks: it would be a new financing model, only other negative I see is if TSLA tanks. Tho if the whole stock market crashes (a notion I have become vaccinated immune to after believing the sky would be falling in 2009, 2010 2011 etc ) well OK the TSLA lose their value, but then Tesla still owns the car, and the owner still has to make payments. Hmm so no downside there, actually.

If that makes sense, how to entice Tesla to go and implement this is the next question.


This is all a rough draft concept, happy to hear some feedback. (I may have had a couple too many celebratory drinks.)

Full disclosure, I'm not a fan of paperwork (euphemism) and would really prefer going this route than go through the "normal" loan process, as I really don't want to sell any stonk. For my soon to be delivered Model Y.
 
Would it make sense for Tesla to offer a loan program for car buyers who have TSLA shares to present as collateral?
I hold all of my Tesla shares in my IRA. I don’t know if it’s legal to use those as collateral, but even if it did make sense, that’s a bad precedence.

Personally, I think it’s a bad idea to tie your purchase to your investments/ retirement funds.