Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Xd85]

I can't find any of that information on Apple or Yahoo Finance news feeds. If true, and if it was Tesla, it would be the headline everywhere!

probably maximizes profit

 

[bkp_duke]

Ford stops selling MachE, up 4% . CNBS article for those interested. Something about the batteries @Artful Dodger

Ford issues stop-sale of electric Mustang Mach-E crossovers due to potential safety defect

Ford says the issue with the Mustang Mach-E crossovers could cause the vehicles to become immobile.

www.cnbc.com

At least it is getting some press. Still the irony abounds. This will likely require "dealer service", and F stock is up. If Tesla had a similar issue, it would already be fixed with an OTA upgrade, but their stock would be "down on a recall".

Yep, game is rigged. Rigged by big oil.

 

[betstarship]

Okay, a few have alluded to this, and I'd like to present it another way that might be easier to grok.

Energy is the scarcity. Has been forever. Consider how many times the cost of energy is applied to the eventual purchase of any item today.

Take something as simple as bread. Energy is purchased in order to:

Package the seeds to grow the wheat
Transport the seeds
Plant the seeds
Tend the crop
Harvest the crop
Transport the crop
Process the wheat
Transport the wheat
Prepare the flour
Prepare the loaf
Bake the loaf
All the steps in manufacturing the bag the loaf will go into, and the bag closure as well
Package the loaf
Transport the bread to a distribution center
Heat, cool, etc. the distribution center
Transport the bread to a grocer
Heat, cool, etc. the store
Ring it up on the register
Transport it home
Put it in the toaster

And further evaluation could easily reveal many multiples of steps that require energy in order to get the job done.
Every instance of energy purchased will be made a part of the cost of that loaf of bread.

What if energy suddenly became so close to free as to be inconsequential to the cost of the chain of bread production?

Energy is the bottleneck. Whomever controls energy, controls everything.

This carefully orchestrated scarcity is now becoming recognized as being artificial and is on the brink of being eliminated for all of humankind over a very short span of years with widespread application of Solar, Wind, and Batteries being added to the equation for producing and controlling the energy supply.

The people of the world are now presented with the ability to own and operate their own energy production, as are each of the plethora of energy users in the form of businesses, governments, etc. using a method that requires almost zero maintenance and zero fuel.

When compared to the cost of using fossil fuels to produce distributed energy now, the consequences are so profound that it is staggeringly difficult to imagine just how drastically the economy will be affected.

To say this may upset the apple cart is an understatement of epic proportions.

I hope this helps better illustrate how the managed scarcity of energy is going out of business. Abundant, renewable energy removes myriad burdens upon society and makes available possibilities to enhance the human condition in ways that were impossible when people like J.P. Morgan reveled in being able to place a meter on the thing that, up till now, has throttled human destiny.

HODL, the ride might get bumpy.

Thank you, much easier to understand - I understood there exists a lifecycle of the value chain previously, but didn't link the supply chain attached to it in my own framework on how to think about this transition.

With that said, the scarcity of oil itself, right now, is that the resource isn't scarce and is attributed to the supply chain related to mining and we're playing this race condition, as I've mentioned previously, with our environment reacting to our use of this resource using techniques to not only mine a long-term finite resource, but also to refine it and, ultimately, give it to end users which is all "dirty". Nevertheless, for decades and century+, we continue to mine this long-term finite resource in order to meet our energy demands. The expectation/hope is that this isn't mined across the entire value chain in order to meet our energy demands to get products/services to end users, so as to prevent a catastrophe in our environment.

So, as a result, a lot of management and transition needs to occur across each aspect of the value and supply chain in order to make this transition on a global level...while on hard mode of the environment working against us to make the transition while using the same value and supply chain we are all used to for a century+.

Sounds incredibly difficult. The intent is there, but execution matters a lot and everyone working together to do it.

 

[betstarship]

I don't think it was directed at you personally. I think it was directed at so called civilization.

whoops! sorry @bkp_duke !

 

[bkp_duke]

It certainly sounds like a big deal after reading the article. It essentially covers every Mach E manufactured to date. Not sure how they won’t have to physically recall each one, as I highly doubt they’re able to do an OTA update a la tesla for this. There is hardly a whisper of it when you search Ford Mach E. It was buried at the bottom of a google search.

And yet Ford was just recently trolling Tesla with their “included f150 lightning adapter to charge all the stranded Teslas”. Muahaha

Haven't been there extensively, but the Mach E forums also have a significant number of owners complaining of significant range degradation. One almost wonders if Ford and GM released Edsels on purpose to poison EV receptiveness. Either that or they are just incompetent. 50/50 ?

 

[bkp_duke]

whoops! sorry @bkp_duke !

It was a general moaning about dumbassery in general. IQ keeps dropping with each generation it seems.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Ford stops selling MachE, up 4% . CNBS article for those interested. Something about the batteries @Artful Dodger

Ford is telling its dealers to stop selling the Mustang Mach-E over safety concerns - The Verge (3 min ago)

Ford recalls nearly 49,000 Mustang Mach-Es over battery safety issues

The order affects over 48,000 vehicles

www.theverge.com

 

[Frank Einstein]

It was a general moaning about dumbassery in general. IQ keeps dropping with each generation it seems.

“Children; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. They no longer rise when elders enter the room, they contradict their parents and tyrannize their teachers. Children are now tyrants.” — Socrates, 470BC

The kids are ok. The people who ask me the most about my Tesla tend to be under 12.

 

[Featsbeyond50]

You do recall correctly. We are descending down the mountain.

View attachment 816425

Too soon to celebrate. We've still got 6 months over 8 percent and only 3 months of a down trend.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Haven't been there extensively, but the Mach E forums also have a significant number of owners complaining of significant range degradation. One almost wonders if Ford and GM released Edsels on purpose to poison EV receptiveness. Either that or they are just incompetent. 50/50 ?

I always thought this re charging issues among competition". As if nobody could figure out a card transaction or something. "Is it plugged in??

The Verge kinda lays out the Ford issue.

Ford recalls nearly 49,000 Mustang Mach-Es over battery safety issues

The order affects over 48,000 vehicles

www.theverge.com

"The malfunction involves a potential overheating of the vehicle’s battery high voltage contactors, which can lead to the vehicle failing to start or losing power while in motion. "

(Edit: Heat problem... oh correction, maybe that's even worse, they may need to reduce power overall, then replace eventually to fully recover. Yikes!)

 

[Featsbeyond50]

Haven't been there extensively, but the Mach E forums also have a significant number of owners complaining of significant range degradation. One almost wonders if Ford and GM released Edsels on purpose to poison EV receptiveness. Either that or they are just incompetent. 50/50 ?

For sure not on purpose because Tesla is still lurking out there. The day they could pretend electric technology "still isn't there yet" has gone by.
So, that leaves incompetence. lol

 

[ZsoZso]

Haven't been there extensively, but the Mach E forums also have a significant number of owners complaining of significant range degradation. One almost wonders if Ford and GM released Edsels on purpose to poison EV receptiveness. Either that or they are just incompetent. 50/50 ?

Hanlon's razor: "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

 

[MP3Mike]

This is called a DEFECT and has to be recalled IMO... at least when they find a HV Contact supplier like in Air Conditioning supply chains or something. It's like they never got away from "points" and condensers. Such a pity pit. This could still be software such as timing that isn't preventing contact arcing fully (or forgot the flux capacitor). However, they are already pitted to some extent. Further, those contacts sound expensive and big if feeding off the main battery, but that's an assumption.

To be fair Tesla had contactor issues in the early Model S packs too... The question becomes why is the contactor overheating? Are they just defective? Is the problem that the pack holds in too much heat, or the cooling system is insufficient? Are they undersized?

 

[scaesare]

When I hear this objection to EVs my (UK centric) reply is that our grid can currently handle all domestic properties having a 7kW electric cooker and can manage them being on simultaneously during off-peak hours. A single phase wall connector is also 7kW and normally used off-peak.

Average daily mileage results in about 10kWh consumption or about 90 minutes charging per car meaning even a four car household should be able to charge during the most off-peak times.

Yes, net electricity consumption increases, but the power supply capacity has existed for many years.

Total non-issue, basically.

As some of the following posts have alluded to, the nighttime charging scenario also has the effect of evening out the utilization of the grid and power generation, making it less "peaky". That means that, even with traditional fuel-burning plants, baseload generation can be used for a greater overall percentage of power needs, making the overall system more efficient.

Of course, renewables are vastly preferred for generation, but the "long tailpipe" argument becomes even more ridiculous when comparing vehicle emissions to baseload plant emissions instead of peaker plant emissions.

 

[Singuy]

I always thought this re charging issues among competition". As if nobody could figure out a card transaction or something. "Is it plugged in??

The Verge kinda lays out the Ford issue.

Ford recalls nearly 49,000 Mustang Mach-Es over battery safety issues

The order affects over 48,000 vehicles

www.theverge.com

"The malfunction involves a potential overheating of the vehicle’s battery high voltage contactors, which can lead to the vehicle failing to start or losing power while in motion. "

(Edit: Heat problem... oh correction, maybe that's even worse, they may need to reduce power overall, then replace eventually to fully recover. Yikes!)

Reduce power again? We have already seen small 2 liter cars passing the Mach-E GT on the autobahn due to severely reduction in power past the first 5 seconds. Pretty soon it'll have the power of a real golf cart.

 

[2daMoon]

Thank you, much easier to understand - I understood there exists a lifecycle of the value chain previously, but didn't link the supply chain attached to it in my own framework on how to think about this transition.

With that said, the scarcity of oil itself, right now, is that the resource isn't scarce and is attributed to the supply chain related to mining and we're playing this race condition, as I've mentioned previously, with our environment reacting to our use of this resource using techniques to not only mine a long-term finite resource, but also to refine it and, ultimately, give it to end users which is all "dirty". Nevertheless, for decades and century+, we continue to mine this long-term finite resource in order to meet our energy demands. The expectation/hope is that this isn't mined across the entire value chain in order to meet our energy demands to get products/services to end users, so as to prevent a catastrophe in our environment.

So, as a result, a lot of management and transition needs to occur across each aspect of the value and supply chain in order to make this transition on a global level...while on hard mode of the environment working against us to make the transition while using the same value and supply chain we are all used to for a century+.

Sounds incredibly difficult. The intent is there, but execution matters a lot and everyone working together to do it.

From where I'm looking the transition will be most difficult for those in positions of influence who focus more upon their income stream and fail to perceive the inevitable, unfolding before them.

The wonderful aspect of this is how the rest of us really don't have to wait on them to change. We just have to vote with our wallets and buy things that support the expansion of renewable power. The rest will take care of itself as the fossil industries will be reduced to only those remaining value streams necessary for the production of plastics and such, and negating their use as an energy source.

This may be an abrupt transition. Meaning it will happen over a period of a decade or two, rather than a century. Renewable energy is already less expensive to install and maintain. The jig is up for the dirty energy sources, and for the people, businesses, and institutions that have supported them, up until now. Those among their ranks who are quick to see the incoming tide will transition easier, riding the wave to apply themselves to more productive pursuits. Those who remain in denial will find themselves at the mercy of the waves as they pound upon them.

All that has to happen is the continued ramp of the products needed to accelerate the transition to a sustainable future. So simple.

Heck, that might even make a good motto for a forward-thinking company that has maneuvered itself into a position to lead the way.

Edit: HomeDepot just let me know my electric yard trimmer is in, so, I'm doing my part by buying electric power tools.

 

[Big Dog]

To be fair Tesla had contactor issues in the early Model S packs too... The question becomes why is the contactor overheating? Are they just defective? Is the problem that the pack holds in too much heat, or the cooling system is insufficient? Are they undersized?

Exactly. It could be a $25 sensor that was tested in the lab, approved, sub-contracted out for production, but found to not be good enuf for real world daily experience.

 

[Gigapress]

• Physical repair with replacement parts will be required and OTA software update
• Half of Mach-Es made in last 12 months affected
• Fix expected in Q3

 

[oldTAVguy]

Hanlon's razor: "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Bob's razor: "Never attribute to malice or stupidity that which is adequately explained by greed."

 

[M|S|M MYP]

The CNBC article. This one is actually decent journalism, so throw them a click.

• “Potential overheating of the vehicle’s high voltage battery main contactors, which is an electrically controlled switch for a power circuit. The issue can lead to a malfunction that could cause the vehicle not to start or immediately lose propulsion power while in motion, the notice states.”
• Physical repair with replacement parts will be required and OTA software update
• Half of Mach-Es made in last 12 months affected
• Fix expected in Q3

Fix expected in Q3 - So....just keep driving and pray you do not lose power?
OTA software update - ummm, if you have to physically repair with replacement parts, wouldn't you just do the update in house while fixing it?

If i owned one, i would be scared *sugarless* about driving it anywhere.