Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[ShareLofty]

Also, several of my neighbors have solar panels, so I don’t think FPL does much to discourage it.

You mean other than lobbying for a bill to get rid of net metering and significantly increasing the monthly fee to stay connected to the grid? Thankfully Desantis vetoed the bill. It would have crushed rooftop solar

 

[MartinAustin]

I do not know what "too much" is in regards to one's eggs in one's basket. And there are several places in the world that would be better for the mission than putting another plant in China.

Somewhere else in the same country - world's largest car market - that's a bit more inland (and not with a river right next to it) so it's not susceptible to damage from tsumanis, flooding rivers or sea level rise... that's all I have to suggest... but you can't find a better country

 

[CorneliusXX]

Before your minds melt down over US politics, consider that many, many companies will be lobbying to keep the Inflation Reduction Act in effect, regardless of who is in power in the USA. When companies make multibillion dollar commitments to things like battery factories, they’re not going to let that go without a fight. Politicians will conveniently change their minds on EVs.

There's also a minimum amount of time required to cement the manufacturing supply chain in the US. If they cancel it after 3 years then it's probably going to be pretty ineffective in transferring the manufacturing base back to the US as any company that isn't a long way through the construction process can just change their plans to manufacture elsewhere. I'd assume you'd need ~7+ years so a couple of generations of manufacturing could be build and industrial knowledge is developed.

 

[Beltsbear]

View attachment 849144

from Electricity generation by U.S. state

Pretty proud of Maryland. We are more than doubling wind power soon too. Our solar is probably 50% more than what is stated as well. Nuclear provides a lot of our power.

 

[gtrplyr1]

Ok ... I guess calling someone out for wanting to eliminate EV's on this forum is taboo .... (post pulled for being political)

Let's try it this way .... ANYONE who thinks eliminating EV's is a good idea is completely mental.

Is that better??


BTW, I read some comments made by someone recently to a large gathering of people ... I learned:

1) You can only drive for 2 hours before you have to recharge your EV

2) There is really nowhere to charge ...it's difficult to find a charging station.

3) EV Batteries are ALL made in China


Genius

 

[S3XY]

I wonder how long it will take the Texas Legislature to ban this. They have a habit of banning anything that individual cities do.

Because FREEDUMB!

 

[TN Mtn Man]

I didn't see this posted, if I missed it I apologize. Don't shoot the messenger, just passing it along. Seems like CA might have been a little reckless in shutting down some of their sources of generating capacity prior to sustainable methods becoming more developed in terms of capacity. (to be clear I'm a supporter of renewables as well as EVs, both need to be implimented intelligently, not at the whim of politicians).

California asks residents to avoid charging EVs during a Labor Day weekend heat wave

California’s power operator wants residents to avoid charging electric vehicles at certain hours through Labor Day to ease the stress on the power grid amid extreme heat and high demand.

www.washingtontimes.com

California’s power operator wants residents to avoid charging electric vehicles at certain hours through Labor Day to ease the stress on the power grid amid extreme heat and high demand.

The request from the California Independent System Operator (CAISO) comes days after the state adopted rules that would ban the sale of gas-powered cars as of 2035.

Power operators said reducing usage during peak hours, from 4 to 9 p.m., would stave off draconian measures like rotating outages.


“The top three conservation actions are to set thermostats to 78 degrees or higher, avoid using large appliances and charging electric vehicles, and turn off unnecessary lights,” the operator said.

The operator cited forecasts that show temperatures in northern California rising to 10-20 degrees higher than normal through Tuesday.

 

[MikeAtkinson]

There has been a permit application for a large inbound warehouse at Gigafactory Austin (166 acres, 67 hectres), location within the site is not specified (although Joe Tegtmeyer has a couple of suggestions).

 

[Curt Renz]

Florida generates only 2.4% of the electricity from solar, that is truly pathetic. Given the quantity
of sunlight it should be above 50%. I suspect Florida power must be rigging the system to disallow
distributive solar generation, anyone have thoughts on this .

My new town in southwest Florida is entirely powered by a solar farm on our north side that's operated by FPL. FPL is pushing solar power as seen by this initiative: SolarTogether

 

[Cosmacelf]

I didn't see this posted, if I missed it I apologize. Don't shoot the messenger, just passing it along. Seems like CA might have been a little reckless in shutting down some of their sources of generating capacity prior to sustainable methods becoming more developed in terms of capacity. (to be clear I'm a supporter of renewables as well as EVs, both need to be implimented intelligently, not at the whim of politicians).

California asks residents to avoid charging EVs during a Labor Day weekend heat wave

California’s power operator wants residents to avoid charging electric vehicles at certain hours through Labor Day to ease the stress on the power grid amid extreme heat and high demand.

www.washingtontimes.com

Eh, we've been through a whole week of sizzling temperatures here in CA and the grid hasn't melted down. The worries have been overblown.

 

[thesmokingman]

I didn't see this posted, if I missed it I apologize. Don't shoot the messenger, just passing it along. Seems like CA might have been a little reckless in shutting down some of their sources of generating capacity prior to sustainable methods becoming more developed in terms of capacity. (to be clear I'm a supporter of renewables as well as EVs, both need to be implimented intelligently, not at the whim of politicians).

California asks residents to avoid charging EVs during a Labor Day weekend heat wave

California’s power operator wants residents to avoid charging electric vehicles at certain hours through Labor Day to ease the stress on the power grid amid extreme heat and high demand.

www.washingtontimes.com

Stop with the BS. Every year, every heat wave they ask ppl to avoid excess usage. No one charges in the middle of the day during peak hours anyways, only the nut jobs. This same point has been trolled to death in the EV forum as well..

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Utilities in FL are "pushing solar", so long as they own it. Similar legislative model is being pushed by Exelon in PA to keep out true community solar.

They've caved in to the idea of solar, but they certainly don't wanna give up their monopoly.

You'd think there'd be some federal regulation to sort this out.

 

[Curt Renz]

Sigh.

"... roll back any such subsidies..." is not the same thing as "get rid of electric cars".

Now that electric vehicles have finally become qualitatively and quantitatively a better value for most purposes than the equivalent ICE vehicle, I'd prefer eliminating subsidies altogether and let the ICE manufacturers sink or swim.

The article writer mistakenly mentioned subsidies. The quote and headline referred to getting rid of EVs.

 

[Thekiwi]

Somewhere else in the same country - world's largest car market - that's a bit more inland (and not with a river right next to it) so it's not susceptible to damage from tsumanis, flooding rivers or sea level rise... that's all I have to suggest... but you can't find a better country

China will eventually make a play for Taiwan - at that stage any American companies with assets in China will most likely see them instantly nationalized by China in retaliation if the world reacts to a Taiwan invasion in the same manner as they did to Russia (wide ranging sanctions). Like with Russia, companies will also face massive pressure to leave the China market of their own accord.

Tesla was right to build the Shanghai factory - but now that the company is in much better financial shape, it makes sense from a de-risking perspective to make any export focused new high volume factory be located outside of China’s borders.

By all means continue to add more China production to serve the local China market, but need to do so with the understanding that those assets could disappear overnight.

Personally I would love to see production in Japan - it is an important enough market and there is a very large highly skilled auto production workforce that will likely be looking for employment over the next 5 years.

Also important to consider that if Optimus succeeds, locating a factory in a low wage area is no longer as big a draw card.

 

[TN Mtn Man]

Eh, we've been through a whole week of sizzling temperatures here in CA and the grid hasn't melted down. The worries have been overblown.

Glad to hear that's the case. Seems like most summers we hear about CAs "brownouts" due to limited supply to meet AC needs. Happy to hear that's not an issue this year.

 

[TN Mtn Man]

China will eventually make a play for Taiwan - at that stage any American companies with assets in China will most likely see them instantly nationalized by China in retaliation if the world reacts to a Taiwan invasion in the same manner as they did to Russia (wide ranging sanctions). Like with Russia, companies will also face massive pressure to leave the China market of their own accord.

Tesla was right to build the Shanghai factory - but now that the company is in much better financial shape, it makes sense from a de-risking perspective to make any export focused new high volume factory be located outside of China’s borders.

By all means continue to add more China production to serve the local China market, but need to do so with the understanding that those assets could disappear overnight.

Personally I would love to see production in Japan - it is an important enough market and there is a very large highly skilled auto production workforce that will likely be looking for employment over the next 5 years.

Also important to consider that if Optimus succeeds, locating a factory in a low wage area is no longer as big a draw card.

Agreed for all the above reasons. The US relationship with the Chinese Communist Party is highly volatile, perhaps more so now given our proxy war with Russia. As well as our support for the Republic of China. I agree with you concerning Japan, but perhaps better, ignoring the geopolitical issues, would be a plant in Taiwan. A similarly developed and educated work forces, and it reinforces our support for a Democratically elected republic, rather than a Communist country that is our geopolitical foe. Now-as a stockholder, I hope they don't go that way-we don't need the added volatility. But as you said, I hope they do not expand in China due to the potential for nationalization, as well as empowering one of the world's greatest violators of human rights.

 

[Tommy O]

Agreed for all the above reasons. The US relationship with the Chinese Communist Party is highly volatile, perhaps more so now given our proxy war with Russia. As well as our support for the Republic of China. I agree with you concerning Japan, but perhaps better, ignoring the geopolitical issues, would be a plant in Taiwan. A similarly developed and educated work forces, and it reinforces our support for a Democratically elected republic, rather than a Communist country that is our geopolitical foe. Now-as a stockholder, I hope they don't go that way-we don't need the added volatility. But as you said, I hope they do not expand in China due to the potential for nationalization, as well as empowering one of the world's greatest violators of human rights.

Highly probable the world fractures in ways we Western Folk aren’t expecting in the near future. I’ve argued in public and in private that Tesla’s presence in China will be overall beneficial.

There may come a time in the future where they need to quickly pull out of China. Not putting a lot of energy into thinking about that, right now. Key Man Risk insurance seems more pressing…

 

[SageBrush]

Let's try it this way .... ANYONE who thinks eliminating EV's is a good idea is completely mental.

Not bad. How about
Any goof aspiring to political office who lies through his/her teeth, has not figured out that AGW is real and a looming catastrophe, and that EVs can run on clean energy is dumber than a bucket of sewage but smarter than his/her audience.

 

[Singuy]

China will eventually make a play for Taiwan - at that stage any American companies with assets in China will most likely see them instantly nationalized by China in retaliation if the world reacts to a Taiwan invasion in the same manner as they did to Russia (wide ranging sanctions). Like with Russia, companies will also face massive pressure to leave the China market of their own accord.

Tesla was right to build the Shanghai factory - but now that the company is in much better financial shape, it makes sense from a de-risking perspective to make any export focused new high volume factory be located outside of China’s borders.

By all means continue to add more China production to serve the local China market, but need to do so with the understanding that those assets could disappear overnight.

Personally I would love to see production in Japan - it is an important enough market and there is a very large highly skilled auto production workforce that will likely be looking for employment over the next 5 years.

Also important to consider that if Optimus succeeds, locating a factory in a low wage area is no longer as big a draw card.

The Japanese has a strong pride within themselves and they would go down with the ship way harder than any culture. Don't believe they will gladly work for a foreign company like Tesla as their grand Jewel Toyota fails. As of today, foreign vehicle sales only accounts for 9.1% of their car sales. 91% of the Japanese buy Japanese made cars.

In contrast, 40% of cars sold in Germany are imported, while 70% of all cars sold in China are foreign brands. Koreans also has a sense of pride plus domestics cars are much cheaper, but still double the Japanese take rate at 18.1%.

As for China invasion of Taiwan...I know Xi keeps talking about it but China has been talking about since I was in middle school. It's a monumental shift in policy and will tank the Chinese economy for decades. There will be a massive brain drain for Taiwan and they'll clean TSMC out before China gets anything. The U.S didn't get Einstein because of peace, but because of war. This will happen if Taiwan was invaded.

Also this is not Russia where people can weather the storm. Millions of people will die in China via starvation if the economy tanks. Anyone know that when running a restaurant/business/school or anything, the more people you have the EXPONENTIAL the difficulty in managing. There's zero scenario where I see China wins this. Like their trading partners will be like Russian..with a bunch of poor nations in the aftermath..so congrats?

 

[gaswalla]

when China has something to lose, they will think twice about invading Taiwan. When there isn't much to lose, it's a different story. Same thing with Russia and Ukraine