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The line upgrades at Shanghai late last summer almost immediately spiked production rates by about 20%. As far as I’m aware they did this with no major increase in labor hours per week and no additional production lines, so this improvement in rate implies major productivity gains.

You can bet that this kind of improvement goes hand in hand with lower costs. For example:
  • If nothing else, you’re getting more economies of scale by cranking out more cars with the same facility and the same fixed costs like depreciation and amortization.
  • If total labor hours per week are the same and output is 20% higher, then labor cost per car is reduced by about 1 - 1/1.2 = 17%.
  • Productivity may have improved via improved first-time quality, resulting in higher yield, less wasted time, fewer injuries, and so on
Personally I didn’t expect a 5-10% price drop in the Asia-Pacific regional market Shanghai serves, but I would not be surprised to learn that margins from Shanghai moving forward are about the same as last year’s margins. If this is so, Q4 margins may have been temporarily high because of the benefits of the efficiency gains coming before most of the price drops. We will learn more on the Q4 earnings report and call. For what it’s worth, we do have the statements coming from Tesla saying that the price drops reflect major cost improvements.

When you combine this with the inputs getting cheaper as Tesla said last quarter and deflation kicking in, I would hesitate to jump to any conclusions about margins suffering severely until at least the Q4 financial data is out.

The fact that Tesla China can sell a 3 SR for USD$33k equivalent is an extremely bullish sign in my opinion. I’m confident they’re not selling this at 0% margin. If it’s at least 10% profit margin for this base version then that implies a cost of production under $30k, and that’s still for a car that’s currently missing many of the cost optimizations that the Y enjoys.

I just went back and verified, on xe.com (Chinese Yuan Renminbi to US Dollar Exchange Rate Chart | Xe) and the exchange rates for most currencies vs. the USD hit their lows in Oct.

The really interesting thing, however, is that most are still DOWN for the last 1Y period by 5-8%. That gives 5-8% "bump" in USD revenues if these currencies return to their historic norms, which is almost exactly the price cuts.

Food for thought.
 
I just went back and verified, on xe.com (Chinese Yuan Renminbi to US Dollar Exchange Rate Chart | Xe) and the exchange rates for most currencies vs. the USD hit their lows in Oct.

The really interesting thing, however, is that most are still DOWN for the last 1Y period by 5-8%. That gives 5-8% "bump" in USD revenues if these currencies return to their historic norms, which is almost exactly the price cuts.

Food for thought.
If interest rates go up, stay here ... how will US $ go down .. are there other reasons?
 
Dunno 'bout that, but MMs definately want to defend those $100 Puts (many open contracts).

Anybody able to post a screenie of this morning's 7 a.m. Options Open Interest chart?

TIA.
SmartSelect_20230106_104627_Firefox.jpg
 
Shanghai was almost certainly earning significantly better than 30% margins, because Zach said that in Q3 auto gross margin excluding regulatory credits would’ve been nearly 30% with Berlin and Texas excluded, and we know Shanghai is more profitable than Fremont due to lower wages and higher efficiency.

Zach also said that Q3 was probably when material costs peaked and that substantial declines were expected to kick in seriously around Q1. We also now have whatever line upgrades were done a few months ago that also should’ve reduced cost per car.

This move of course does lower margins relative to whatever they were before the cuts, but I think 17% is a very conservative guess.
17% was just the mathematical impact of a 10% price drop on a vehicle with 30% margins:

New Sale Price = COGS*130%*90%.
New Margin = (New Sale Price - COGS)/COGS. = 17%

I'm not trying to fully estimate GigaShanghai margins, just the relative impact of the price cut.
 
Closing up on the day , implies a great deal.
Firstly, that new information has been discounted,
Secondly that smart shorts will start covering.
Thirdly the Fomo crowd will initiate long positions.

Of course its not advise.

Today's behavior might be due to max-pain$111 with 100$, 105 $ put walls)
Monday should expose the real deal ... but the no demand concerns should now no longer be valid ... question now will be what kind of margins will Tesla have ...

cheers!!
 
Thanks. I think I found your analysis. It’s very helpful, but if I’m following it right, your China Competition case has Tesla margins at 20%. That’s high for a mass market car. What happens to your 2024 TSLA PE-based value if margins drop to 10%?
Indeed it is high, I was still doing my best to analyse a very promising situation.

I'll take a look fairly soon into the 10% GM case on a like-for-like basis, i.e. using the preQ3 baseline.
 
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Reactions: insaneoctane
I can only imagine that the 10% drop is to kill BYD. Killing BYD is merely a continuation of Elon Vs Buffett tête-à-tête.
It's not Tesla's mission to kill any EV maker, especially those that are making scale. The price dropped was just to stir up demand for Tesla, customers waiting for a price drop, and cost coming down to the point that allows this price drop.

You know what is interesting is during the Model 3 reveal, Tesla dropped the price from 80k down to 35k and people automatically assumed what, they would hit 30% margins with that car? The stock rallied.
 
Concerning China-if JUST Tesla sales are down-yeah, it's something to be concerned about. If all automakers are down, if the country's economy is in the crapper, if the country is being ravaged by new Covid cases keeping people from going it and buying anything, if unemployment is up-why is this a specific, long-term concern? Yes, maybe sales are down, and maybe a price cut can push demand. But if it doesn't read as a overall loss of appeal of Tesla products vs the competition, it's likely a temporary condition.
 
If interest rates go up, stay here ... how will US $ go down .. are there other reasons?

That's a complex interplay, that depends in a large part on the macroenvironments of the other country/region you are comparing the exchange rate to.

Someone with more experience can hopefully shed some light, but I'm not aware of a direct correlation between exchange rates and interest rates.
 
Question: Which alternative do you think is a cheaper/faster way to improve logistics:
  1. extending the rail line 30 miles from the Taylor rail yard to Giga Texas, or
  2. digging a boring tunnel from Giga Texas to the rail yard?
Obviously, the cars could drive themselves in a logistics tunnel, ala the Vegas Loop.

Greater Giga Texas Infrastructure, Maps & Area Discussion! 6 December 2022 (4K) | Joe Tegtmeyer


Cheers!
Pretty sure option 2 is cheaper/faster.

As you point out, the cars would drive themselves. In the FSD/Robotaxi future where the cars are owned by Tesla, there is no need to deliver them with <50 miles on the odometer. They could drive themselves from the factory to their "job" wherever that is on the continent, while making money picking up passengers along the way. The tunnel could thus be one way, for incoming logistics.