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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Vinfast Batteries now included with the vehicle purchase! Obviously this wasn't going to work at those prices. Car payment + Battery payment?
Status quo is collapsing all around Tesla. It's an amazing thing to watch, but so quickly. Toyota, Ford, mostly everyone humbled so far. When is it Mary's turn?

"Then in September VinFast quietly increased the price of the battery subscriptions (to as much as $349 CAD/$219USD), while also ditching the cheaper flexible subscription option."

 
FYI: Model S and X owners can now schedule an appointment for CCS retrofit for $450 and that also includes the $175 adapter. Model 3/Y owners need to wait a bit longer till mid-2023. It still surprises me that Tesla upgrades 10 year old vehicles, I can't easily think of any other manufacturer that does that.

 
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My favorite part (almost no part).

"Even small things such as the powertrain cooling hose surprised Toyota, which Tesla shrunk from 3.5mm to 1.5mm while at the same time using a cheaper material to produce them."

(I was going to post this, but got to talking about Chuck Berry with someone here. :D )
I am pretty sure they are not using a 1.5mm cooling hose, or even a 3.5mm hose. Probably meant cm.
 
FYI: Model S and X owners can now schedule an appointment for CCS retrofit for $450 and that includes the $175 adapter as well. Model 3/Y owners need to wait a bit longer till mid-2023. It still surprises me that Tesla upgrades 10 year old vehicles, I can't easily think of any other manufacturer that does that.

One of my gripes about Tesla supporting CCS was the fact that it meant other drivers would potentially have a better network of chargers than we do. They would have all the CCS network, plus all the Tesla network.

Very happy that Tesla is making this a two way thing. Even if we have to pay a little for the adaptor, we’ll still have the best of all worlds.

Of course I paid the previous $250 or so for mine… writing a letter to Tesla now demanding a refund on that pricing difference. /s
 
Exactly. If people thought the margins on cars coming out of China were good, margins on cars out of the Mexican factory should be even better.
No shipping is one thing, Lead Time is also king, but wages... I had no idea!!! Not sure how taxes/rebates pan out, but I doubt it matters. I'm beginning to think this is going to be a $15K-$20K car. If TSLA does dip on Wed, better get it while you can!

I had listed so comparisons, but nothing jived. Here's something a bit more reliable, but only shows until 2020. Most others links I used are only trying to solicit manufacturing I think. Most agree it's cheaper to build in Mexico.


I'd also feel better about taking a trip to Mexico in a Tesla if they're part of the team. Maybe they can add some happy paint colors too - yellow anyone?
 
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No shipping is one thing, Lead Time is also king, but wages... I had no idea!!! Not sure how taxes/rebates pan out, but I doubt it matters. I'm beginning to think this is going to be a $15K car. Look at these numbers. If TSLA does dip on Wed, better get it while you can!

In Mexico, minimum wage is around $1 an hour, while in China it has increased to about $3 an hour.

"In the United States, by comparison, the average wage in manufacturing was $24.55 per hour as of January 2022 — almost 10 times higher than in Mexico.

I'd also feel better about taking a trip to Mexico if they're part of the team. Maybe they can add some happy paint colors too - yellow anyone?

Don't forget electricity rates. They are even lower in Mexico than they are in China.

There is a reason most of the US auto industry went full into Mexico decades ago.
 
In Mexico, minimum wage is around $1 an hour, while in China it has increased to about $3 an hour.

"In the United States, by comparison, the average wage in manufacturing was $24.55 per hour as of January 2022 — almost 10 times higher than in Mexico.

Are these from different sources? 24.55 is definitely not "almost 10 times higher than" 1. If it's the same source, another eyeroll for media "researchers"

Edit: thanks for the new data
 
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One of my gripes about Tesla supporting CCS was the fact that it meant other drivers would potentially have a better network of chargers than we do. They would have all the CCS network, plus all the Tesla network.
Tesla owners will likely always be better off. Tesla, as far as I can tell from the announcement, is only planning to open about 10% of the Supercharger network in the US.

We will have access to all of the Supercharger network as well as all of the CCS network; a CCS car will only have access to all of the CCS network, and a small portion of the Supercharger network.

That 10% might increase over time, depending on how things go, and if Tesla applies for, and gets, any NEVI funding.
 
Are these from different sources? 24.55 is definitely not "almost 10 times higher than" 1. If it's the same source, another eyeroll for media "researchers"
Oh good catch, was from 2 different queries yes. I set the date range to within 1 month, and just picked it off the top Google response. A buck seemed quite low. However, there was a disclaimer that it's spotty depending on regions, so extremes perhaps.

Fixed it.
 
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I think that sentence means the average manufacturing wage in Mexico is higher. It’s probably not minimum wage work.
Maybe, but I'm confused.

Here's is a key point I keep seeing, so let's just go with a likely cost savings in labor vs China, plus all the other added bonuses of being fairly local.

Meanwhile, I'd think China and the EU might also be planning Generation 3 as well for even a larger market for small cars. But maybe Mexico first because of Rototaxi ground zero in America. Just a hunch.

One of many sources, so hard to tell. China is no longer a low-cost labor country
 
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Exactly. If people thought the margins on cars coming out of China were good, margins on cars out of the Mexican factory should be even better.
Not necessarily. Remember the profit out of Chinese factory is not necessarily out of reduced labor expenses, but due to very high productivity. Close to $1M cars a year. It is highly unlikely the Mexican factory would be close that level of productivity.
 
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Not necessarily. Remember the profit out of Chinese factory is not necessarily out of reduced labor expenses, but due to very high productivity. Close to $1M cars a year. It is highly unlikely the Mexican factory would be close that level of productivity.

We'll revisit this in a few years then. I disagree, respectfully.
 
Not necessarily. Remember the profit out of Chinese factory is not necessarily out of reduced labor expenses, but due to very high productivity. Close to $1M cars a year. It is highly unlikely the Mexican factory would be close that level of productivity.
If it's not, Elon will be sleeping on the factory floor until it is.
 
I hope you are right, and I am proved wrong. But I doubt it.
I think he's right... Mexicans work very hard. Yes, China can move quickly and repeat exactly, but if the process is clear and controlled, Mexico will be fine. It's a known fact that Mexico also makes some of the best Fender guitars, just as good as China, maybe better than USA. We might have to make sure they don't use salt water to mix the concrete, but Mexicans are hardest working people I've ever met.
 
Maybe, but I'm confused.

Here's is a key point I keep seeing, so let's just go with a likely cost savings in labor vs China, plus all the other added bonuses of being fairly local.

Meanwhile, I'd think China and the EU might also be planning Generation 3 as well for even a larger market for small cars. But maybe Mexico first because of Rototaxi ground zero in America. Just a hunch.

One of many sources, so hard to tell. China is no longer a low-cost labor country
One of the many reasons for Mexico is that the Mexico treaty with Mercosur allows significant duty-free auto imports. That permits cheap entry to Brazil, Argentina and Chile. Assuming Tesla also buys Sigma, that establishes a basis for even more attractive tradeoffs, previously employed most effectively by Mercedes Benz and Boeing, both of which have benefitted from adept use of these trade benefits. This subject has been mostly ignored at TMC, but it is of huge consequence to Tesla now as scale increases.

To be clear, such regional and country specific treaties are common. With Tesla reaching scale not seen before we will now see numerous sourcing of materials plus factories fo various types that will be located to benefit by these rules.

Coming soon:
-Indonesia battery-related facilities;
-More EU locations;
-Something in South Korea

Raw material sourcing, materials refining, anode, cathode, other parts sourcing all will take advantage of trade agreements, materials quality and other factors. The road to 2030 as will be described tomorrow, will, whether detailed or not, be strongly influenced by cost optimization driven also by costs imposed/minimized due to trade agreements.

The simple solutions are disappearing for Tesla. Now there is logistics and more logistics.